[QUOTE ="Lewis.no.9, post: 17900090, member: 83427"]3 at the back? 
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Not sure if serious
Not sure if serious
Harry Kane
- Thread starter orangeboom999
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Well nothing is cast in stone. Kane may be able to edge it against Rooney after all and that would pave the way for him as a first teamer with England
40m is the going rate for world class players like ADM. We're talking here about a promising lad who might as well become a one season wonder
The trouble is Spurs' academy products despite being good enough for Spurs, for the most-part wouldn't establish themselves in our team. And likewise, lots of our academy products who don't make the grade here would be permanent fixtures in the Spurs team.
We're comparing teams with two different ambitions. If our ambition was to finish in the Europa League, we could hold of on signing lots of top level talent and just keep hold of players like Welbeck, Evans, Cleverley, Rafael etc. If we did that we can kiss goodbye to challenging at the top. Spurs have already accepted this and are happy to compete at that level.
We are probably on the whole a lot better at producing academy products than Spurs. The league is littered with players who have come from our academy. I'd bet it's more than any other team in the division and certainly more than Spurs.
And despite signing so-called Galacticos, LvG has shown he's happy to give players chances if they deserve it - see McNair, Blackett and Wilson last season. I'd expect Andreas Pereira to be one of the break-out talents this year and I'm sure plenty of others will get game time with more competitions.
Whether it's the going rate or whether he's worth it or not is besides the point. That being, Levy will never sell for £40 million this summer.
Not sure if serious[/QUOTE][QUOTE ="Lewis.no.9, post: 17900090, member: 83427"]3 at the back?
50/50 lol
Awe bless, he's all giddy with the novelty of it. Nice having home grown players, isn't it? Don't know why Spurs have only just cottoned on to this.
Personally think we'd be far better waiting to see if he can do it all again this season, we'd have to pay £50 million + now, maybe throwing them Hernandez into the deal too, and if he does back it up this season how much would he be worth next summer? Probably still £50-£60 million, imo he is never going to be a world record sort of player, so just wait.
For me Hernandez is the perfect back up for Rooney this season, and if we just chuck him into any Kane deal you can be sure he'll outscore Kane as first choice for them. Also it'll likely force Rooney into the number 10 role, and push one of Mata, or Herrera out of the club.
Nope I think we should get Pedro, and then look to get another young exciting winger in (Felipe Anderson), and use Hernandez, Pedro, and Wilson as fall back strikers.
For me Hernandez is the perfect back up for Rooney this season, and if we just chuck him into any Kane deal you can be sure he'll outscore Kane as first choice for them. Also it'll likely force Rooney into the number 10 role, and push one of Mata, or Herrera out of the club.
Nope I think we should get Pedro, and then look to get another young exciting winger in (Felipe Anderson), and use Hernandez, Pedro, and Wilson as fall back strikers.
Why would an english player who has nothing to prove after 2 season be worth same as his first season?
Spurs might not be a title winning team but they are dam sure still a significant rival to our ambitions.
So you think he would be worth what season if he hits another 20 + this season?
Not having a go I'm just interested at what other people think his value could reach.
For me a lot of this current valuation, (and lets face it Spurs might just refuse sell even if we offered £50 m +) is based on what he could do, if he does it then that doesn't automatically mean he is worth £100 m +.
Yep. People keep going on about his price going through the roof if he has another cracking season.
But how? He currently wouldn't be sold for £40 million or even £50 million, because that's what Levy's like. He won't want to look weak and sell a young talent to United or City the minute the player shows a hint of ability.
Bearing this in mind, his price wont be increasing hugely over the course of the season. There's actually more chance of him being signed for £50 million next summer than this summer, even if he does well again.
Let's say that kane score 20+ goals, gets spurs in to the CL by a complete miricale; your telling me he would cost us, a direct rival only 50 million?
In that example with a top four finish, he'd probably be kept at all costs.
This summer, he definitely will be kept at all costs.
That's my point.
You can't claim that the price has increased, when there was never a price in the first place, and every offer is going to be rejected this summer.
Or, in other words:
Kane is currently not for sale at any realistic price (we aren't going to bid £80 million)
Even if he plays well again, Kane is more likely to be for sale at some realistic price (for a few reasons) next summer.
Therefore his price will not have increased, because he never had a price in the first place.
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I'm talking about academy and youth products - not the regulatory definition of "home grown". You realise this - right? So apart from fading memory, how would you know that it's "nice"? How many United academy/youth players were in your first XI last season? How many will be in it this season?
I get the situation. LVG will only be around for a short time and so needs quick results. And United have lots of money (which seems to be the main thing that many United fans bang on about these days). And money is a way of trying to prove that you're up there with the likes of RM, Bayern and Barca. So the club's main direction of travel is down the big money/galactico path.
That's all understandable, but why try and deny it?
If Rooney was £30million 10 years ago, given the exponential inflation in fee's and sponsorships, then it's easy to understand why Kane would be valued at £45+ today.
Had Rooney achieved similar to Kane at this age?
If our management believe Kane 'has it' buy him, no matter the cost, like we did Rooney and Rio
Had Rooney achieved similar to Kane at this age?
If our management believe Kane 'has it' buy him, no matter the cost, like we did Rooney and Rio
I haven't said you've abandoned it. But the staggering sums of money spent on additions to your last title winning squad abundantly suggests that your youth system is way down the list of priorities ... not least because every new player brought in from outside (and most of them have been brought in for big money) means the further reduction of opportunities for players from your youth system to play for the senior team. So their development gets stunted or they leave.
Off the top of my head, I reckon 8 to 10 academy/youth products featured in the first XI at various points last season.
You're having a go at us for something we're actually pretty good at - developing young talent.
Of course they don't always make it and standards are high, but we steadily produce a stream of Premier League ready players, if not Manchester United ready.
We're certainly better than you at it, don't you see that? And if we were a Spurs level team, they'd more often make the grade.
What am I denying? I just pointed out that it's been the other way round for years, and you are understandably a bit giddy about a brief chance to be able to enjoy having more youth products than most while we don't have that many.
Although, I'm not sure the gap is as big as you're implying. I mean after all, this is Glaston talking, excuse me if I take your facts with a pinch of salt.
Who did you actually have playing regularly? Kane, Townsend, Mason, there aren't many more are there?
Who are these many MUFC academy products that would allegedly be permanent fixtures in the Spurs team? And who cares about how many MUFC academy players have ended up playing for other teams - isn't your academy supposed to benefit your team?
It's also silly to say that ambition of Spurs is merely to play in the Europa League. If that were the case then we'd field our strongest XI in that competition, but we don't.
What? Rooney burst on the scene as an absolute wonderkid at 16, and was scoring a hatrick in the champions league at 18.
Kane is 22, and has had 1 real season in the Premier league.A lot of goals yes, but Rooney had already emerged as England's best player of the generation, had a sh!tload of caps, and was a stand out player for United with 4 seasons under his belt by then.
Different quality entirely.
Berbatov is a better comparison. Had a good season or 2 for Tottenham, went for 30m or so. Years back.
Therefore, Kane is always going to go for a lot more than that, as he's a lot younger.,
sort of agree. But I think this talk of waiting another season to see if he can do it again isn't overly wise. A player who has had 2 big seasons will only ever cost more than a 1 season man.
Plus Bentaleb and Rose, makes five, or six if you include Walker who was only 19 when he arrived. To be joined by others this season.
So we can include Rooney then? And Shaw? Might as well count Depay. I mean he's only two years older.
There's little point listing the players who would get in your team because I know how ludicrously you over-rate your own players and the standard of your team. But needless to say, any of the players who have left us for top half teams in the Premier League (or top leagues abroad) would have a decent stab at featuring regularly for Spurs.
Of course our academy benefits our team. Even if they don't quite make the grade, we have been able to sell players for tidy sums, for pure profit, which helps us fund transfers. We've also been able to avoid spending tens of millions on squad players by having them come from the academy instead. This continues to be the case and United's 14/15 squad will have plenty of academy players present. In fact, every United squad since WWII has contained at least one academy player. That will continue.
What I do accept is that in the era of oligarchs and sheiks, it's harder and harder for academy players to become regular first team starters. That's the reality of the situation - we need to compete with City and Chelsea filling their squads with international superstars at £30m-£50m a pop. But even in that context, we're still producing a lot more Premier League ready players than Spurs and pretty much everyone else, so I really don't see why you're digging this hole.
You're having a go at us for something we're good at! You should probably find something better to troll about.
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Kane will out score Rooney again this season, despite playing in a far worse side.
I thought you bought Rose off Leeds? And Bentaleb?
What happened to:
?
If we're playing by these new rules, I'll give you Jones, Evans, Smalling, Januzaj, McNair, Lingard, Blackett, Wilson, Cleverley, Welbeck, Fletcher, Powell, Janko, Keane, Thorpe James, Pereira. That's 17 youth products who played for United last season.
If we are purely talking about genuine academy products, and ones who've made a few league appearances I guess we're down to Evans, Januzaj, McNair, Blackett, Wilson, Cleverley, Welbeck, Fletcher. Still 8.
Hang on, what am I doing, I've been totally Glastoned haven't I?
I thought you bought Rose off Leeds? And Bentaleb?
What happened to:
?
If we're playing by these new rules, I'll give you Jones, Evans, Smalling, Januzaj, McNair, Lingard, Blackett, Wilson, Cleverley, Welbeck, Fletcher, Powell, Janko, Keane, Thorpe James, Pereira. That's 17 youth products who played for United last season.
If we are purely talking about genuine academy products, and ones who've made a few league appearances I guess we're down to Evans, Januzaj, McNair, Blackett, Wilson, Cleverley, Welbeck, Fletcher. Still 8.
Hang on, what am I doing, I've been totally Glastoned haven't I?
It's even more than 17 using Glaston's rules.
Don't forget Shaw and Rooney. Let's also have De Gea to round it up to a nice even 20.
Plus Rafael.
Glaston gone missing again! Que surprise!
How could I forget! He's a legit one and all.
Can we find one more to make it 22? We can then lay claim to having been able to play two XIs from the 'academy/youth' players who played for us last season.
EDIT: Anderson! He can do goals for team two in the absence of two keepers.
Would Stones count if he joined us? He's English and isn't much older than Walker was when he joined Tottenham? Barkley too?
Sterling is also now officially a Manchester City academy/youth player. Or is it just for teenagers?
Sterling is also now officially a Manchester City academy/youth player. Or is it just for teenagers?
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Glaston is the gift that keeps on giving.
I know its not the season and was only preseason but in the game against Barca for the last 30 minutes, 7 of the 11 players on the pitch came through the Utd youth reserve system. I think one of the goals we scored involved 4 of those players.
For me that was pleasing to see, despite all the criticism recently of the Utd youth setup it is still possible for youth players coming through the system to get looked at and have a chance.
De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Smalling - Shaw
Cleverley - Fletcher - Pereira
Welbeck - Rooney - Januzaj
Anderson
Thorpe - Evans - Keane - Blackett
Janko - Powell - McNair - James
Lingard - Wilson
Not bad! Two full teams.Rafael - Jones - Smalling - Shaw
Cleverley - Fletcher - Pereira
Welbeck - Rooney - Januzaj
Anderson
Thorpe - Evans - Keane - Blackett
Janko - Powell - McNair - James
Lingard - Wilson
It certainly beats this depleted Tottenham side:
Walker - Rose
Bentaleb - Mason - Townsend
Kane
Bentaleb - Mason - Townsend
Kane
I did just that
When Googling the same keywords, the only ones quoting this figure are garbage tabloids reporting that fee 3 days before the deal was confirmed.
From having a look at "NewsNow", it seems to be an aggregator for tabloid bilge, so if you're using that as the base of your argument, then you're a fecking balloon.
BBC, Man Utd, Sky Sports, MEN, Wikipedia (who cite The Guardian, The Telepgraph and The Independent as their sources) all reported £59.7 at the time it was confirmed. But yeah, go ahead and use "NewsNow" as your basis over actual reliable sources, including the official confirmation from the buying club. Lunatic.
There are no new rules ... apart from your earlier attempt to change the definition into the Prem's "home grown" regulation. And from your list of 8 academy products, not one features in your first XI and several have left the club. Of those that didn't leave, I'd guess that Kane by himself came close to clocking up more playing minutes in the league last season than all of them combined.
Never understood why this is an argument. Players score more goals in worse sides because it's their level. Just like Ba at Newcastle - couldn't hack it at Chelsea. If it was the case that being in a worse side was harder to shine then Charlie Austin should be snapped up by Chelsea immediately.
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