to completely dismiss any argument is a trifle arrogant
Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic
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to completely dismiss any argument is a trifle arrogant
Well then, why the feck have we paid £18 million for him ?!!
If United were as good as Bayern were with Hargreaves, we wouldn't by our standards have been very good.
The England thing is a weak point, as you know.
Gareth Barry's the current England midfield hero. Lets sign him for 20 million pounds, and play him instead of someone who's miles better
Excellent logic. Scholes is actually aging in reverse and nobody else is improving.
Arsenal despite their woeful performance on Sat surely haven't improved.
The moment you become complacent is the moment you fall behind.
We should always be looking to upgrade. Is Hargreaves an upgrade? In certain aspects he absolutely is. Part of the keys of success if flexibility.
Carrick is a great player when he can sit back and pick less gifted teams apart. He has been SHOCKING when played as part of a two man midfield against teams with individual players that have the skills to skin him.
Hargreaves may be unnecessary against weaker teams but he wasn't brought here to play in the games we won last year. He was brought here to help us win the games we lost last year.
The problem is that we will lack some creativity when he plays against weaker teams because he does indeed need to stretch his legs once in awhile. It would be extremely short sighted for anyone to slate him if he came on for the first time in a month for a tough CL fixture and wasn't up to snuff. Thats why he has to get regular first team action, if he doesn't then there should be absolutely no expectation placed on him to perform in Europe.
Then we can go back to Carrick being made to look foolish by the likes of Kaka.
yes, I thought exactly the same thing when we played the same formation vs Arsenal at the weekend. way too defensive
come on it was not the same tactical approach at all , you're just being silly now ... we were all about flooding arsenals third , a rampage from the whistle; tonight was about getting a draw or maybe nicking a win in a controlled disciplined manner
no its not. Not in this case. C'mon have abit of respect for the guy. He has played a side as successful as United for the passed few years.
Amateur pundit analysis is one trying but to denegrade him like some are doing ... well says more about them than Hargreaves really.
The Real president felt Guti had a great passing range and offered defence as much protection as Makelele but in a more economical manner. We all know how that worked out.
But we were successful in Carrick's first season. You make out as though we have been awful since he joined us.
Maybe those expectations aren't realistic for a player who is new to the club and has only started around 13 games. Keep in mind that he was injured for most of last season, and so he probably needs time to get back to his best.
I'm not Fergie, but if you expect us to sign the likes of De Rossi for 20 million instead, you're deluded.
There was nothing wrong with the flow of the team tonight. We just didn't take our chances!
It's bizarre yet our team will still insist on twatting 60 yard balls up to him. There comes a time when some individuals need to use their brain a bit and realise that no matter how strong he is, he is not a tall lad.
Surely it's not to hard to realise that Rooney plays his best football when the ball's on the deck?
Why would SAF spend 28 mil on Veron.It happens.
yes, I thought exactly the same thing when we played the same formation vs Arsenal at the weekend. way too defensive
Different personel for us.
Different opposition - in the Champions League; away.
Whatever. Fact is, we look a better side with Rooney and Tevez together.
I'd rather we had bought a player that was worth the money, or at least close to being worth the money, and in a position that was needed!
yes that was obviously Carricks fault
If football was merely about opnions poeple woudlnt accept thing like Best were all time greats. Some thing are not just opinion down to opinion. Anyone with eyes can't claim we played poorly or hada poor player on picth tonight. unless theri are natural liars!
Really?
You must have missed this then:
............Freaky Jim said:
That concesus is only amongst the Hagreaves hating brigade. His job is to pass to more attack minded players or player in better attacking positosn than him. A thing He did this all night with accuracy, at one time feeding Brown a wonderful cross field long abll that Brown crossed into the 18 that provided a good chance for us that Coupet saved. .He lost the Losing the ball once tonight. Yet people are coming on here to claim he was shit or did nothing. Worse still the want him to pass a ball like Carrick. A freaking play maker. How clever
It's not like Veron was rubbish. Some players just fail to click.
yes, and that is why you are not manager at MUFC and SAF is!!
Veron was one the best midfielders around, in fairness.
Yes, the system's flawed
but the supposed hidden abilities of Hargreaves were to be released in European games, and make the system work, supposedly.
Another six years and people might start admitting it's not gong to work
unfortunately, that's the type of player he is, a very injury-prone one, I agree with the point about him needing time to adjust to the Permier League, but he's played long enough with Bayern to know enough about the CL, and that's why he was bought for, so he's got the experience in the CL for that to be a non-issue.
btw, was this hargreave's first game for us in the CL this season?
It was also Vidic and Evra's first full season. Carrick was the worst player in our regular starting XI last season. If you have a doubt, look at the Premiership's team of the year.
Yep, because it's not cost us at all having only 2 strikers and having to rotate the team and change a winning formula, just to accommodate £18 million Owen Hargreaves.
Hargreaves played alright today. Next Roy Keane? Not even half of one, but he did okay.
Good point, Plech. I lost count of the number of times the ball would be hoofed forwards towards Rooney, only for Boumsong or Squillaci to head it away. He's simply not cut out for the role when the team as a whole is playing conservatively; against Arsenal he was getting better service and he was getting a lot more support from Anderson, Nani, Fletcher, etc.
I remember a couple of times Rooney received the ball about 30 yards out, but there was no one available for him to pass to. Ronaldo having a pretty poor game didn't help either.
...
We can look look at this from a different perspective, there's another reason we hit long balls. Even if the defender clears it away I've noticed in some of our games(especially at home) we win many of the 2nd balls and establish ourselves close to their box and can then start to pass it around and put pressure on the opponents.
The Real president felt Guti had a great passing range and offered defence as much protection as Makelele but in a more economical manner. We all know how that worked out.
he was also accused of releasing makelele because he didn't like him, either way it's irrelevant they are different people , we didn't need someone to 'just tackle' to win the championship last year. it's unfair to hang Carrick for the Milan performances and not to laud him for the Roma ones.
Rooney had one chance created by his own work, other then that how mnay time did the Lyon keeper have to make big saves?
Hargreaves did well today. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
maybe carrick is just a bit subtle for you ? what if he had better hair ?
Hargreaves had a decent game - no need to single him out.
I'm still waiting for him to really step up though, and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. You know, the kind of thing Gattuso does when he goes headfirst into the war and fires up both the crowd and his team (and he's a limited player too).
A bit too many decent games so far - not enough great ones.
I won't judge him until he gets a substantial injury free run though, he's at a new club and he's not been fully fit.
I'm still waiting for him to really step up though, and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. You know, the kind of thing Gattuso does when he goes headfirst into the war and fires up both the crowd and his team (and he's a limited player too).
A bit too many decent games so far - not enough great ones.
I won't judge him until he gets a substantial injury free run though, he's at a new club and he's not been fully fit.
Pretty much yes. Because people like me have given people like you solid evidence time and again that disproves your baseless theories about Hagreaves. Yet your Hargreaves bashing never seizes! You even watch a game like tonight's, with your own eyes, in which we play very well, are very unlucky to get only a draw and you still come up with Hargreaves is shit comments. When that happens I read between the lines and know you think people liek me are talking bullshit and are fools. Unlike you however I don't hide such thoughts like you clearly do..
Next Roy Keane ? Everyone talks as if Roy Keane destroyed teams in Europe and helped us win several Champions league trophies.
He has the same number of CL medals as Hargreaves at the end of the day in spite of being a far superior player in a far superior team
He has the same number of CL medals as Hargreaves at the end of the day in spite of being a far superior player in a far superior team
Why?
That'd be Fergie, he was the one who took him off in favour of someone who could pass a ball. And if you say that's because we were one down well then Owen didn't exactly do 'what he's there for'.
Having CL match experience is irrelevant when you haven't had time to settle into the team. I don't think Hargreaves has played too many games with the same players in midfield or when we've played the same shape. These could factor into how well he performs.
It's his first start, IIRC.
If Hargreaves is held accountable for shit he isn't responsible for then Carrick should be as well.
It is a two way street and that is why some of us are getting so fed up with the constant Hargreaves bashing. Hargreaves doesn't do anything wrong yet he is a scapegoat.
Carrick can be cut to ribbons by Kaka, it is irrelevant if it was his "fault" or not and he gets no flak.
Carrick can play his long passes all over the park and have 99.999% of them cut out losing us possession and cheating us of any sort of buildup play, which coincidently is what we are best at, and this is ignored because once a month we score a goal from it.
Carrick can stand around and get passed by or run by and as long as he makes one interception off of a shocking pass and he has amazing positional sense.
Hargreaves can make a 90 yard run to track down a Spurs player, stop him only to have him play the ball forward with his fecking hand to Lennon who then sets up a goal and it is Hargreaves fault.
Hargreaves can truck around breaking up attacks, running people down, clearing the ball off the goal line in almost sure fire tap in goals and he gets hammered because he commits a foul in a dangerous area.
Very few people see the plethora of things Hargreaves does for us, but they will jump all over him for not singlehandedly keeping a clean sheet in every game.
Really?
You must have missed this then:
............
That concesus is only amongst the Hagreaves hating brigade. His job is to pass to more attack minded players or player in better attacking positosn than him. A thing He did this all night with accuracy, at one time feeding Brown a wonderful cross field long abll that Brown crossed into the 18 that provided a good chance for us that Coupet saved. .He lost the Losing the ball once tonight. Yet people are coming on here to claim he was shit or did nothing. Worse still the want him to pass a ball like Carrick. A freaking play maker. How clever
Head. Banging. Brick wall.
Hargreaves can pass the ball. But it is not his forte. He takes too long to pass the ball. Our play becomes to methodical.
Carrick has proven himself. He dovetailed with Scholes and helped us win the title after 3 or 4 years. That is a good enough reccomendation for me.
United has never played (in the Fergie Era) with a pure destroying midfielder whose job it is to break up play - United's philosophy is based on attacking, incisive football and by having a Hargreaves in the side we are handicapping ourselves in attack. Robson - a very accomplished player with the ball. Same with Keane. Essentially, Hargreaves is too basic.
ssshh let the self deception continue. A fantastic result away from home against the champions of france. all is well.
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