Mourinho.
Still Mourinho.
Still Mourinho.
Guardiola vs. Mourinho
- Thread starter Sky1981
- Start date
For me it's because I reallyyyyy don't like Mourinho and his football and because Guardiola is too arrogant to think only one way of playing football will get you the wins and results.
So it's not as if Porto was that much of an "average" team then ?
Yeah, you are right. One of those was a CL winner who knew the team inside out. Its soooo easy with stars.
And Messi tells everyone how much Pep formed him, helped him to become the absolute best.
Every great coach had super teams and big clubs behind him for the most part of his career. You cant blame Pep for being a superstar player, working his way up inside a top 3 club.
You cant talk Pep down. End of story.
Did you check the table of the mighty PL which is behind the abysmal Bundesliga in the UEFA ranking btw?
I think @Raul Madrid made the point here a while ago that while Mourinho has won the CL with underdogs, he has failed to win it with very good or great squads (at RM and Chelsea). So can he win it when everyone expects it and the pressure is on or can he only motivate his players to win the CL with "us against the world, ....
This is why SAF is the greatest ever!!!!! He won 2 European trophies as underdogs with Aberdeen and United, plus 2 when we were more or less favourites to win it (1999, 2008)OK oppo fans, that's just a sidenote, you don't have to agree btw and are free to continue the Messi v Ron..., sorry I mean Pep v Mou debate ...
Yes, thanks for your approve. And when your club is back among the big boys(we can wait) you can join our discussions.
Yeah, you are right. One of those was a CL winner who knew the team inside out. Its soooo easy with stars.
And Messi tells everyone how much Pep formed him, helped him to become the absolute best.
Every great coach had super teams and big clubs behind him for the most part of his career. You cant blame Pep for being a superstar player, working his way up inside a top 3 club.
You cant talk Pep down. End of story.
Did you check the table of the mighty PL which is behind the abysmal Bundesliga in the UEFA ranking btw?
Yes, thanks for your approve. And when your club is back among the big boys(we can wait) you can join our discussions.
No need to talk him down. Come back when Pep wins a CL with Wolfsburg or Gladbach and we can compare the Porto CL win.
Guardiola doesn't get enough credit for what he did with that Barcelona team.
Sid Lowe article from the 4-1 drubbing Barcelona received at the hand of a Real Madrid team who got knocked out of the CL at the last 16th stage by Roma.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/08/barcelona.realmadrid
They were a truly awful side. Beating Schalke and Celtic to reach the semifinals wasn't impressive. Neither was finishing 18 points behind Real. Xavi and Iniesta were isolated and perennial under performers in that team (Guily, Deco and Ronaldinho were the main playmakers). Messi was the talented dribbler on the left wing.
To transform that dysfunctional state into a club considered the greatest club side of this century, speaks to the talent and dedication of Guardiola. He reached heights Mourinho can only dream of.
Sid Lowe article from the 4-1 drubbing Barcelona received at the hand of a Real Madrid team who got knocked out of the CL at the last 16th stage by Roma.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/08/barcelona.realmadrid
They were a truly awful side. Beating Schalke and Celtic to reach the semifinals wasn't impressive. Neither was finishing 18 points behind Real. Xavi and Iniesta were isolated and perennial under performers in that team (Guily, Deco and Ronaldinho were the main playmakers). Messi was the talented dribbler on the left wing.
To transform that dysfunctional state into a club considered the greatest club side of this century, speaks to the talent and dedication of Guardiola. He reached heights Mourinho can only dream of.
Mourinho's stint with Real Madrid was a tad underrated. Had he not been in competition with probably the greatest club side ever, he would have won a lot more titles. Real Madrid was a club who has failed to get past the round of 16 for 7(?) years in a row. Under him, they went to 3 semis in row. He managed to break Barca's stranglehold on the Spain trophies and broke the points and goal records in the league. You can go as far back as 1997 to see the previous points record in the Liga which was 92. Even the great Barca treble winning team managed only 87. In Mourinho's first season he broke the record by 4 points and the next season broke it again, this time by 8 points. He elevated the competition, without him, I really doubt Barca and Real would be playing at the same level of competitiveness today.
Yeah, you are right. One of those was a CL winner who knew the team inside out. Its soooo easy with stars.
And Messi tells everyone how much Pep formed him, helped him to become the absolute best.
Every great coach had super teams and big clubs behind him for the most part of his career. You cant blame Pep for being a superstar player, working his way up inside a top 3 club.
You cant talk Pep down. End of story.
Did you check the table of the mighty PL which is behind the abysmal Bundesliga in the UEFA ranking btw?
Yes, thanks for your approve. And when your club is back among the big boys(we can wait) you can join our discussions.
Where are you getting this from, every site I check has England as second placed still?
That and its true Bayern are miles ahead of the second placed team. Winning that league is like Celtic winning the Scottish league in the past few seasons, anyone could do it.
Bit ott no?
You are welcome. BTW, if I interpret your username correctly then you were 10 in 1999, so I don't blame you for not knowing much about that CL season. But at least if you come on a United forum to write how very lucky we were and how undeserved our victory was, then I'd suggest to you to at least watch the games first.Yeah, you are right. One of those was a CL winner who knew the team inside out. Its soooo easy with stars.
And Messi tells everyone how much Pep formed him, helped him to become the absolute best.
Every great coach had super teams and big clubs behind him for the most part of his career. You cant blame Pep for being a superstar player, working his way up inside a top 3 club.
You cant talk Pep down. End of story.
Did you check the table of the mighty PL which is behind the abysmal Bundesliga in the UEFA ranking btw?
Yes, thanks for your approve. And when your club is back among the big boys(we can wait) you can join our discussions.
And just for you, what Wikipedia won't tell you: when at full strength we played you in the group stages the very same season, it was actually your team which got lucky: When Elber scored his goal you guys were offside in the build-up twice and if the goal had been correctly disallowed you might not have even made it out of the group. Maybe this would have been better for you as it would have spared your team from the final pain
And finally thanks for the invitation to join you in the CL. Would be fun to talk to you about a United-Bayern game which you have actually watched
It starts with the new season, when 2010/11 falls away.
And yes, Im sorry. You are right. I just forgot the time when the 2nd of the Scottish league was in the CL final. When was that again in the last years?
You are welcome. BTW, if I interpret your username correctly then you were 10 in 1999, so I don't blame you for not knowing much about that CL season. But at least if you come on a United forum to write how very lucky we were and how undeserved our victory was, then I'd suggest to you to at least watch the games first.
...
And finally thanks for the invitation to join you in the CL. Would be fun to talk to you about a United-Bayern game which you have actually watched
Haha. See. Playfull banter. Thats great. If only some here would get that.
I watched the last 4 Bayern United games. All fine entertainment. But yeah, 1 win against us isnt that bad. 1 CL for United till 1999. Our guys probably thought "We have 3, lets win it next time".
What I can say is that if you take the top 8 teams from the two leagues combined, you will probably get more from the EPL. Yes the past couple of seasons were bad for PL in Europe and Bayern is by far better than any other team in the two leagues but that is exactly my point. Winning the Bundealiga with Bayern is not that big a deal.
And honestly if you are going to compare his PL win, compare the 2006-2010 era when the EPL had atleast two teams that were superb in Europe and he still won PL titles.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't like his style and would rather Pep's style of football. But you just cant deny that the guy gets the job done better than almost anybody in the world.
Not sure about the last line but all those slamming pep should read this. The job he did at barca waa absolutely brilliant.
I think you are not reading well onto what Sly has said. He wrote the actual backgound back then in very detail and informative way, you should read it carefully first before giving out such general comment.
it muses me when people commented guardiola could only play football in a one-way manner when they compared him to mourinho. i didn't watch much bayern this season but just out of the few games i watched this season, they had already played 343, 433 & 4321.
what kindS of football do mourinho played through out his career?
what kindS of football do mourinho played through out his career?
Porto beat Lyon, Deportivo and Monaco to win the CL. These days you'd find harder competition in the Europa league. Porto are not a smaller club than any of those teams. It was a great achievement but is not an evidence that Mourinho can win trophies with a small team by beating bigger teams.
I'd find Guardiola to be too much of an idealist and Mourinho to be too much of a pragmatist if they were managing a team I were emotionally invested in.
In that sense, van Gaal as someone who heavily influenced both of them is a favourable blend of the two in terms of his philosophy.
In that sense, van Gaal as someone who heavily influenced both of them is a favourable blend of the two in terms of his philosophy.
Yes but the competition still consists many big guns there. It is not as if there's no big club in the competition that year. (Monaco beat Real Madrid and Chelsea, Deportivo beat Milan and Juventus, Lyon was winner in the group consist of Bayern, its not Porto fault those big guns couldn't progress and Porto beat all the winners there anyway and they beat us too)
Besides if you look at all the past winners in last 20 years, Porto is by far the weakest which make their win even more impressive. Its not fair to say they win an easy competition at all.
I acknowledge that. But Porto still did not have to beat them. Its easier to beat the ones that beat them. Its harder to beat Barcelona than it is to beat Malaga(who beat Barcelona). Besides the same people who diminish Guardiola's achievements at Barca because of the team he had and the teams he was up against try to overrate Mourinho's achievements at Porto as if it was proof that he could beat bigger teams with a small team to win trophies. Looking at the team he had at Porto and the teams he was up against, it was not a gigantic task. They were hardly even underdogs.
Maybe but it doesn't matter. When we won the league many years back we used to loss more matches against top 4. Doesn't means we are not worthy winners in the end.
I didn't say they weren't worthy winners. They deserved every bit of it. Mourhinho deserves credit for Porto as much as Guardiola deserves credit for Barca. But trying to praise one and diminish the other's work is foolishness as we can just as easily pick apart the other's wins. And also i maintain that neither manager has proven that they can win trohpies with a small team by beating bigger teams in the process. Not that they need to anyway.
Mourinho would have won the same if not more trophies then Guardiola, has won at Bayern.
I cant be as confident saying the same thing for Guardiola at the clubs Mourihno has managed.
Though I don't think Mourinho would have be as dominant at Barca, as Guardiola was. The players he had there was perfect for his management style.
I cant be as confident saying the same thing for Guardiola at the clubs Mourihno has managed.
Though I don't think Mourinho would have be as dominant at Barca, as Guardiola was. The players he had there was perfect for his management style.
Why isn't this a poll?!
Well they are definitely the 2 best manager in the game at the moment. Mourinho did a great job for Porto and Inter, against all odds. But I thought Guardiola did a great job for Barca B as well, if winning with a small team is the concern.
Is this a joke? Winning a Tercera Division with Barca B! Did you even see a single game? In fact have you ever seen a Tercera game?
I think people like Pep, so they want to rate him as a great manager. I don't understand how people can really rate him either way. There no way he can possibly be definitely in the top 2 managers in the game.
Rijkaard has a very, very average manager, yet won major honours with Barca. Juup Heynckes is a good manager, but not considered elite and had been dismissed by Schalke and Gladbach in the recent years before his return to Bayern. Yet with that Bayern team he won the CL and topped the Bundelisga by 25 points and that was over just a 34 game season! They scored an incredible 98 goals and conceded just 18. They then bought the best 2 players from their biggest rivals. Surely even the most biased Pep fan can see how insanely difficult it would be not to easily win the Bundesliga with such a dominant squad. Heynckes is no Mourinho yet the season before Guardiola won the league at an absolute canter. Pep has never won a competition that he didn't easily have the best squad for and they'd have been favourites no matter who was in charge.
Tbf the size and variety of Mourinho's buses is very impressive. It also takes something special to play at home with a bus consisting of six defenders and still cocede three goals by a team famous for bus parking itself. Then while at Inter against Barca he even managed to park an Airbus (a funny comment by him actually back then to his credit).
You fail to grasp something very simple. It's not only about the tropheys, it's about the style of winning them. Other managers would have probably won as many troheys as Guardiola's Barcelona but they would not have created a team than many regard as the best team EVER. Do you see the difference? In 50 years when people talk about the best club sides in history, they'll talk about Ajax (71-73), Milan (88-90), Barca (09-11), no-one would mention a side managed by Mourinho. When you inherit a team that finished 3rd in La Liga and make it the best ever, then you are brilliant. It's as simple as that.
Barca B wasn't in great shape when Pep took over either as this link will show.
http://footballcantera.com/josep-guardiolas-biggest-achievement-barca-b-part-14/
That's what I've read before, he did an amazing turnaround job for Barca B at that time, implementing his football idea perfectly there, and thats how he won the Barca job in the end... but no I didn't watch any of it, its just based on what I've read before, but I thought the whole thing make sense.
Oh cry me a river. Before Pep took over at Barca no one in their right mind would have said that Barca had 'easily the best squad' in Spain never mind Europe. He had to build that team so that people like you can say that even your grandma would have won it.
This thread is insane. Now people are trying to claim that Barca didn't have the best squad in Europe when Pep took over. Then hjow on earth did a no mark like Rijkaard finish 2nd in La Liga with it the season before? How did they win the Cl prior to that.
Barca B were playing in the 4th tier of Spanish football for the first time in over 30 years and people see it as impressive they won!
I get that people really like Pep, but this thread is becoming ridiculous with the lengths people are going to make the jobs he's done at Barca and Munich seem good enough to put him the league of someone like Mourinho.
Barca B were playing in the 4th tier of Spanish football for the first time in over 30 years and people see it as impressive they won!
I get that people really like Pep, but this thread is becoming ridiculous with the lengths people are going to make the jobs he's done at Barca and Munich seem good enough to put him the league of someone like Mourinho.
Barcelona had finished 3rd, 10 points behind Villareal and barely qualified for CL 3 points ahead of Atletico and Sevilla. They had also conceded 40+ goals for the first time in 5 years. Oh and they didn't win the CL prior to that, that was 2 seasons before in 05/06. You have your history all mixed up. The final table looked like this.
1. Real Madrid - 85
2. Villareal - 77
3. Barcelona - 67
4. Atletico Madrid - 64
5. Sevilla - 64
6. Racing Santander - 60
Are you telling me that the best team in Europe had just 7 more points than Racing Santander?
Yes
You're right this thread is insane.
I really don't get how some people can't appreciate Pep's efforts at Barca. It's just baffling to me.
Yes because Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta weren't in the team of the tournament of Euro 2008. Xavi wasn't named player of the tournament. Yaya Toure, messi, Henry, Eto (who missed half the previous season) and Dani Alvez were a right rag bag bunch!
He's comfortably in the same bracket as mourinho. Only fans of the premier league consider mourinho God like.
And mourinho was given a blank cheque at Chelsea. And he has never made a team as dominant as pep has. Clearly you want to only criticise one and praise the other.
Exactly. They where playing such rubbish football at the time. They'd keep the ball pointlessly for ages and get smashed on the counter. Pep changed them, changed a lot of players and turned them into a side considered by many as won a ridiculous amount of trophies with them in the next three years.
Players and clubs are running after him as he's obviously a top top manager, but redcafe is not impressed
Because he's the only manager who had great players right? Other managers like Mourinho and Ancelotti literally turn shit players like Ronaldo, Ozil, Lampard, Terry, Ballack, Modric, Ramos, Sneijder, Ibrahimovic, Makelele into gold right?