Fair enough, its an emotional time but i feel like the survivors movement is being railroaded by some nutters.
Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
I'd be amazed if they can get the charges to stick and feck knows how you'd get an impartial jury, given pretty much the entire country was horrified by the event.
They are not claiming a huge drop in the number of deaths are they?
The article says the death toll may be slightly lower than expected.
So why so hard to believe?
Conspiracy theorists believe far more were killed than has been reported.
I'd always be a little sceptical over a final number anyway, not because of conspiracy or anything more because I doubt they have a clue who was actually living there compared to who was meant to be living there.
I find conspiracy theories about this quite distasteful.
Exactly this.
The only people that could have fallen through the net would have been absolute loners that were there illegally. People that had no friends or families, no social media connections or a mobile phone to call people for help whilst they were trapped. How many people like that do you think we're in there?
That I can see. The article sort of touches on the issue of anyone living there without outside connections. We may never know the true final count only an officially confirmed dead, which is the number that might be slightly lower than originally estimated.
It could be more than we think, I've lived in countless places where I've sublet but my friends and family don't actually know where I live and officially I don't live anywhere, you don't have to be a loner for that to happen, especially when I was living abroad.
You have to be a loner to disappear from the face of the earth without anyone noticing. People in the tower called their loved ones when they knew there was no way out. How many people in their last moments wouldn't reach out, what would you have done in the same situation?
Some people will reach out as you say, others might make a last ditch attempt to leave and pass out from the smoke. Hard to say what you'd do unless you're in it.
Are there conspiracy theories about anything which are not distasteful?
They'd notice you disappearing yeah but it'd be a while if they had no idea where to even start. I dunno what I would have done but you can't know, just as many people who called loved ones could have fought until they were done to get out, others might never have even woken up.
It happened over quite a long time period though. The couple I heard on the radio that called their family initially called them just to tell them about the fire, that they had been told to stay put, they called back later to say they couldn't get out saying their goodbyes.
For someone to totally disappear they would have to be
1. An illegal tennant
2. Have no friends or family they tried to reach during the fire
3. Didn't reach out to the emergency services at any time during the fire
4. Didn't have any social media that they posted on during the fire
5. Subsequently didn't have any friends or family that may have been distant or estranged looking for them afterwards
I think the number of people fitting that criteria would be pretty small.
For one whole families were wiped out. Secondandly subletting in this building was supposedly prolific. Thirdly many victims were first generation immigrants without an extended family in the country. Lastly some victims were completely incinerated.
If there isn't an official record of someone staying there they wouldn't simply add them to the death toll because a person or family were reported as missing persons.
When you factor all those points in you would assume the probability of under reporting of deaths to be quite high even if unintentional.
I don't see it. The idea that a whole family can disappear without anyone noticing is even less likely. First generation immigrants are still connected, they have smart phones and social media profiles too you know.
There was also an amnesty on sub letters volunteering information wasn't there?
Exactly my thoughts. Not to mention finding the remains of someone and then identifying them after such a fire.
Chemtrails
Didn't get good news for the girl I know from work who was a victim of this. Also took them 2 months to confirm through dental records. Really sad, such a nice girl, loved to chat to her.
One question is how many of these people that nobody would miss or have any idea they were living there be victims? 20? 30? 49? 100? 2?
These flats have been painted out to be for poor people and fairly rundown (and they kinda looked like they'd be that way from the outside tbh). These pictures took me by surprise with how nice they were.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Grenfell_21st_floor
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Grenfell_21st_floor
And...? People decorated and in some cases purchased the old council flats and did them up. Doesn't change the state of structural disrepair to the building or the dangerous practices. I really don't get the point of this article
What do you mean 'and?'? It's just interesting considering how they've been portrayed. And the point is to give some more background on it and the people that lived there.
To try and document the fact that there are real people behind the grim statistics?
I find the article powerful and effective. And desperately sad. The nerd in me is also impressed by how well it is optimised for reading on a smartphone!
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It just reads like less of an interest peice on humanising the people and more a typical Daily Mail "look they weren't all poor like the media said". You can see their follow up to this a mile away
I just don't see the relevance on whether they were poor or well off, lived in shit holes or well decorated apartments. Would be nice if the BBC reported more on the guilty than making it entertainment.
It's interesting and extremely sad and I had time to read the experiences of the first family.
The relevance is that these were homes. Each as individual as varied as the people that live in them. It gives life to the building as well as the people that inhabited it. If anything, the article is a counter to the Daily Mail mentality that a bunch of dole scroungers and illegal immigrants being displaced from their dirty flats is no great loss to our society. A diverse and productive community went up in flames that night and the more we hear about the full extent of that loss the better IMO. I think your criticism is well wide of the mark here.
Didn't get the Daily Mail vibe at all, particularly as the article is a celebration of diversity which is hardly their forte. Given the fact that multiculturalism and diversity has been largely portrayed negatively, it's an interesting angle.
Also reiterates the human angle of the Grenfall tower which is so often lost.
Yeah, not getting the Daily Mail vibes off that at all.
Still no sign of anyone admitting that there were no fire barriers in place...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fell-promise-broken-accusations-a8007501.html
Completely unfair of the press to hold a lying, callous piece of shit responsible for her quick political-gain promises.
Completely unfair of the press to hold a lying, callous piece of shit responsible for her quick political-gain promises.
What a turd she is. It's surprising this isn't headline news though. BBC don't even mention it from what I can see.
That doesn't surprise me unfortunately.
Is the Trident money still available? Priorities, right?