Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017

Dave89 said:
When a drink driver kills someone in a crash you don't go about warning the anti drink driving groups not to point score. Pointing out cause and effect is fair game.
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You see a car crash and instantly know someone was drunk?
 
Dave89 said:
OK, amend it to "you see a car crash involving someone who has been criticised repeatedly for drink driving".
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Ugh. They're still pulling bodies out of a building due to a fire whose cause is yet to be determined.

But yeah "fair game"
 
Dave89 said:
"they questioned government support of profit margins over safety! Scum!"

Wise up.
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There's going to be plenty of time for finger pointing and accusations. Just dont think now is the appropriate time.
 
Reported on Itv a baby was caught and safe after being dropped from the ninth floor. What a nightmare being in that situation. Unthinkable. Poor people.
 
Oscie said:
You see a car crash and instantly know someone was drunk?
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You don't know, but you might guess based on time of day and the nature of the incident. You'd certainly expect the driver to be tested and challenged about it straight away.

Fires happen in homes, anything from a chip pan to a faulty wire can start it. It's just that you don't expect it to spread this fast, or this far. When you hear about recent changes that could have affected the spread of the fire the questions are obvious, even if the answers aren't.
 
jojojo said:
You don't know, but you might guess based on time of day and the nature of the incident. You'd certainly expect the driver to be tested and challenged about it straight away.
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I mean the people who'd be standing by the side of the road and moments after impact speculate that the local MP has blood on his hands for voting to lower the drink-drive limit. The glee at which some people see tragedy as a political opportunity is depressing.
 
Fergies Gum said:
There's going to be plenty of time for finger pointing and accusations. Just dont think now is the appropriate time.
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If i knew anyone involved I'd certainly want answers and pressure put on those responsible immediately.

People can say it isn't the time but im not sure who they're trying to protect, if its in good faith and not using it for gain then i don't see the issue.
 
This is so sad. I work only a short walk away from the building. Can see the charred shell out of the window of my office.
 
Bury Red said:
I suspect most would decline the interview and say a statement would be issued once all the information had been gathered. It's a sad reality in construction, I've been inside companies 4 times now where we've had accidents with multiple fatalities plus one where a crane collapsed across a busy road in rush hour and somehow missed every single car, thankfully my local MDs were always Engineers who understood the business but the instruction from board level back in Europe was always to refuse to speak to the media, we'd have been dismissed for doing so before all the facts were known.
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Yep, definitely a no win game when all of the facts are not yet known. It seems an unusually intense and fast-spreading fire though- what's your initial take on that?
 
Smores said:
If i knew anyone involved I'd certainly want answers and pressure put on those responsible immediately.
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Without knowing the cause of the fire, why or how it spread what would be the immediate question you'd ask?
 
lewwoo said:
Reported on Itv a baby was caught and safe after being dropped from the ninth floor. What a nightmare being in that situation. Unthinkable. Poor people.
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That's good news... Hard to feel good about it, but it's good news.
 
Oscie said:
I mean the people who'd be standing by the side of the road and moments after impact speculate that the local MP has blood on his hands for voting to lower the drink-drive limit. The glee at which some people see tragedy as a political opportunity is depressing.
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Glee? That's a pretty serious accusation in itself.
 
RedFish said:
Concerns that the building might collapse now
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There is definitely some of the top floors still on fire which makes you wonder after this length of time if there is a big risk now.
 
Oscie said:
Without knowing the cause of the fire, why or how it spread what would be the immediate question you'd ask?
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Where did it start? Why did it travel so fast? Why were the safety measures that we associate with good building practice like fire alarms, sprinklers, clear evacuation routes seemingly missing or ineffective?

You're taking like it's the first time there's been a fire in a tower block, it isn't. But this doesn't look like a UK tower block fire and people are asking what's different. When we are aware of differences then people jump to conclusions. We shouldn't - innocent until proven guilty - but natural and I'd suggest that it's even a necessity. Other people live in similar blocks, and we need to know that refurbishment programs make them safer, not more dangerous.
 
Dave89 said:
Glee? That's a pretty serious accusation in itself.
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Glee. It's a tragedy whose cause is yet to be determined. If you're jumping to try and apportion blame based on absolutely nothing but love of speculation then to say the response to the event has been gleeful, is a fair statement. if what interests you more is apportioning blame when you're not even sure what it is you're apportioning blame for, then yes, glee.
 
jojojo said:
Where did it start? Why did it travel so fast? Why were the safety measures that we associate with good building practice like fire alarms, sprinklers, clear evacuation routes seemingly missing or ineffective?

You're taking like it's the first time there's been a fire in a tower block, it isn't. But this doesn't look like a UK tower block fire and people are asking what's different. When we are aware of differences then people jump to conclusions. We shouldn't - innocent until proven guilty - but natural and I'd suggest that it's even a necessity. Other people live in similar blocks, and we need to know that refurbishment programs make them safer, not more dangerous.
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Not sure I'd be able to sleep in a similar building after this.
 
These buildings are supposed to be designed specifically to prevent something like this from happening and also to allow safe means of protection or escape if it does happen. So it's entirely fair to say "something's wrong" and try to find out what. It'd be ridiculous not to.

It's impossible for a fire to spread in the way this one did if the building itself was compliant with necessary fire regulations. Plus the fact it was assessed only a year ago and deemed to be ok (and the fact the fire apparently spread via the outside of the building) would suggest the cladding is the most likely cause.

We have this all the time at work where contractors want to cut corners on cost or time and don't understand or care about the implications. Something like this simply doesn't happen unless something somewhere wasn't doing what it was supposed to.
 
jojojo said:
Where did it start? Why did it travel so fast? Why were the safety measures that we associate with good building practice like fire alarms, sprinklers, clear evacuation routes seemingly missing or ineffective?
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What are you talking about? The questions that the fire investigations unit will have to find out has nothing to do with the post I was replying to that was suggesting questions needed to be asked of those "responsible" immediately.

The person I was quoting presumably isn't holding the fire brigade responsible.
 
That building was made in 74 so must have a fair amount of asbestos to.
 
This is probably stupid, but is there no way to set up some sort of make shift landing zones in situations like these? Like a soft surface people can jump on and avoid serious injury. Seeing people trapped by their windows always makes me wonder this.
 
RedSky said:
Not sure I'd be able to sleep in a similar building after this.
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Me either.

Unfortunately, if you're living in a building like this the likelihood is that you cannot afford to move out or find alternative accommodation. Plus a lot of the tenants would have been housed by the council.
 
Oscie said:
Glee. It's a tragedy whose cause is yet to be determined. If you're jumping to try and apportion blame based on absolutely nothing but love of speculation then to say the response to the event has been gleeful, is a fair statement. if what interests you more is apportioning blame when you're not even sure what it is you're apportioning blame for, then yes, glee.
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Stop scoring political points against people looking for answers and questioning previously documented behaviour.
 
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