In majors Nadal has beaten Federer on every surface in finals at some point. Federer never could best Nadal on clay.
Greatest mens tennis player of all time
- Thread starter Raoul
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Federer and Djokovic any other era would have atleast 5 french opens each and that’s not exaggeration. They very good clay court players but Nadal makes their records look average on clay when it really isn’t.
Novak and Fed would be counted as one of the all time Clay GOATS if not for Rafa.
One more Aussie open and Nadal can be first player to win all slams at least twice. Two more slams outside FO and Rafa will have strong case for GOAT.
Djokovic and Federer need to win FO again for same record of winning every slam at least twice. Djokovic at least can achieve it before retiring. Fed I dunno if he will play FO again. He should try. Who knows, Rafa gets injury or has Soderling like moment and Fed can get to final again
Djokovic and Federer need to win FO again for same record of winning every slam at least twice. Djokovic at least can achieve it before retiring. Fed I dunno if he will play FO again. He should try. Who knows, Rafa gets injury or has Soderling like moment and Fed can get to final again
It's amazing that 3 GOAT candidates are all playing at the same time.
We're blessed.
I think Nadal will surpass Federer in slams next year(unless Fed somehow bounces back again).
He'll win at RG and definitely win one of the AO or US Open IMO.
Maybe Fed can snatch another Wimbledon title. Could see both tied at 21.
We're blessed.
I think Nadal will surpass Federer in slams next year(unless Fed somehow bounces back again).
He'll win at RG and definitely win one of the AO or US Open IMO.
Maybe Fed can snatch another Wimbledon title. Could see both tied at 21.
Right but conversely, if it weren’t for them Rafa would have at least 5 Aussies and Wimbledon’s.
Sampras was never just a serve and volleyer though like Edberg. From the baseline on hardcourts and grass he coped and sometimes bested the likes of prime Agassi.
On clay though he could never do it from the baseline.
And his serve is still the best ever in variety, precision, effect combined with speed (would be even faster in this era with the new tech). His second serve is absolutely amazing.
He's my fav tennis player. Was such a joy to watch
I’d now be very surprised if both Nadal and Djokovic don’t surpass Federer now. The potential swing this summer has done for Federer. The number is looking like it’ll need to be 22 (I think we’ll see Djokovic get to 23 or 24, fitness permitting). Huge ifs, obviously, but if he’d taken one of his match points at Wimbledon and stayed healthy here, he might potentially have been on 22, which would have had him 6 ahead of Djokovic and 4 ahead of Rafa. Instead it’s 4 and 1 and both players may have 3 or 4 years of play ahead of them, even if on pared back schedules.
Djokovic and Nadal are both such boring players. They're just annoyingly consistent.
Also, the time they take in between points adds about 4 hours to a tennis match. Yes, we get it Rafa you need to touch your nose, flick back your hair right, touch your nose, flick back your hair left, touch your nose, yank the thong from between your buttcheeks and look accros the net ominously before every serve. Just kill me already.
Also, the time they take in between points adds about 4 hours to a tennis match. Yes, we get it Rafa you need to touch your nose, flick back your hair right, touch your nose, flick back your hair left, touch your nose, yank the thong from between your buttcheeks and look accros the net ominously before every serve. Just kill me already.
Yet their records are stacked full of some of the greatest matches of all time. Especially against each other.
I'd watch Safin playing an unseeded nobody over them any time
Of course, they can produce some spectacular stuff. It's probably just their longevity that's starting to bore me. I keep waiting for a new kid to take over, but it never happens.
I'd watch Safin playing an unseeded nobody over them any time
Of course, they can produce some spectacular stuff. It's probably just their longevity that's starting to bore me. I keep waiting for a new kid to take over, but it never happens.
Were you watching last night's final? I'm amazed anyone could find it boring.
Who cares who is the GOAT. I would say we all are truly blessed to see three great players. I am a huge federer fan but at this point I wouldn't even care if nadal or Djokovic goes past Federer in Grand Slams.
I didn't actually, time difference
Honestly, I have to somewhat back peddle my initial statement. I don't necessarily think it's boring to watch Nadal and Djokovic, it's just boring that they're so consistent and take ages to do anything.Yesterday sounded like a cracker with the almost comeback. Medvedev is also a complete nutter which is always fun.
Interesting about big Pete. Imagine if he'd have been good on clay. Those 14 majors were won from three tournaments only.
At this point, it's probably not Roger, and more so because of Djoko outclutching when it matters in their H2H. But also similar to my belief of Borg over Sampras, I'm leaning towards Djoko....higher peak, higher talent.
Djokovic and Nadal are really starting to pull away from Federer
Pull away? More like catching up, still.
I didn't actually, time difference
Yesterday sounded like a cracker with the almost comeback. Medvedev is also a complete nutter which is always fun.
They don't have a huge serve like Federer does. Winning every point for a Rafa, Djojovic or even Murray has always been far harder than it has for Federer and hence they're slower and take their time to reset and recuperate between points. Having the ability to wrap up service games in 40-60 seconds like Federer often does isn't something they're blessed with and hence, they've had to play a completely different style.
Imagine if Rafa hadn't been so injury prone and missed 14 Slams, he could have won ateast 2-3 Slams more. However, these are things that are part of the game. Injuries, having a weak surface, not having a big serve etc. Every great player probably has something they lack in or something that's gone against them so these things kind of even out over time.
Considering the massive lead Federer had at the start, they're definitely pulling him in quite quickly now.
It would be really difficult for Djokovic to get to 24 grand slams even if his fitness holds out, he would need to win atleast 3 of them as early as next year to stand realistic chance of reaching that milestone but Federer's record is still achievable if he can stay fit.
I think Nadal should definitely equal it.
But every year people make these predictions and it doesn’t pan out that way. There was talk last year of Djokovic pulling away and winning three slams minimum. But the fact is as brilliant as he was at AO his level dropped considerably after. He had a decent draw at Wimbledon avoiding any players that could cause him any issues and really if it wasn’t for Fed choking he would have lost that match. Outside of the slams he’s only won one title in Madrid. Usually you see him win a few masters hardcourts in America, but he didn’t really come close to winning any of them.
So Fed has the edge on Djokovic. Four slams is a lot to equal. I’d be very surprised if Djokovic is playing at Feds age. Djokovics game is more physicals than Federer and in his 30s he’s going to pick up more injuries. He didn’t really cope too well with his last injury and it took him two years to get back to the level he was.
But every year people make these predictions and it doesn’t pan out that way. There was talk last year of Djokovic pulling away and winning three slams minimum. But the fact is as brilliant as he was at AO his level dropped considerably after. He had a decent draw at Wimbledon avoiding any players that could cause him any issues and really if it wasn’t for Fed choking he would have lost that match. Outside of the slams he’s only won one title in Madrid. Usually you see him win a few masters hardcourts in America, but he didn’t really come close to winning any of them.
So Fed has the edge on Djokovic. Four slams is a lot to equal. I’d be very surprised if Djokovic is playing at Feds age. Djokovics game is more physicals than Federer and in his 30s he’s going to pick up more injuries. He didn’t really cope too well with his last injury and it took him two years to get back to the level he was.
I think 3 was the maximum he was going to win this year given Rafa was a sureshot favorite at RG. Honestly, he was on course for winning 3 if not for the shoulder injury he picked up. Rafa was serving under 50% for a big chunk of this final and better returners like Novak (or even Federer) would done huge damage to Rafa last night.
In this latest period where he's picked up 4 Slams in the last 18 months, I think he's shifted his focus away from the lesser tournaments now and is in prime form for the Slams only. Even before his brilliant performance at the AO last year, he'd lost to RBA in the buildup. His current injury being the left shoulder instead of the more problematic right elbow, I think he'll be fine and I expect him to win 2 Slams next year and Roger and Rafa one each.
He should have lost Wimbledon, if Fed didn’t bottle it.
Also I told you last night Medvedev and Schwartzmann are top 5 returners on the tour. Federer isn’t in the top 5. Nadal faced good returners and yet he won. There’s no guarantee Djokovic would have beaten Medvedev also. Medvedev was only one who pushed him at the AO but basically tired out. He came back from behind at Cincy to beat him. He’s improved his fitness massively since the AO.
Yep I agree Federer should have won Wimbledon but this was also the absolute worst that Djokovic has probably ever played in a Slam final and he still managed to win. The mental toughness of Novak, irrespective of his form, is what makes him such a formidable opponent and yet one of the favorites for the maximum number of Slams next year. Rafa wins around 1 in every 6 non clay Slams he plays on average so I'm not expecting a non RG victory next year.
As for returners, Federer may not be in the Top 5 on tour statistically but his returning caused Rafa huge issues in their Wimbledon SF. He stood inside the baseline often, taking shots early, returning to Rafa's feet and basically erased Rafa's ability to get a good serve and then hit a big first shot and dominate the rally. Medvedev, I thought, didn't return well at all and didn't adapt to the situations with the serve. Rafa was serving under 50% for most of the night and he still stood far behind the baseline to return. Someone like Novak or Federer would have destroyed Rafa if he'd served that poorly against them.
Medvedev is definitely a bad matchup for Djokovic but I feel there are just aren't enough people other than him, who can upset any of the Top 3 even now. Federer is a little more vulnerable to upsets but Nadal and Djokovic are still very good at dispatching off the rest of the field.
Well technically, to pull away you need to get in front first. I know what Kazi was trying to say though.
For Djokovic, it is about his focus and will. He did say after retiring at USO that he wants to keep playing for long time and wants to reach Federer's tally. Quality wise there aren't many in rest of the field to trouble him for couple of years. Won't mean he will win 3/4 each year but he definitely has good chance to win 4 over next 2-3 years.
My ideal scenario is all 3 ending on 20. Then threads like these can go on forever, all over the internet
@wr8_utd , has Rafa invited you to his wedding?
Borg, end of thread
The precision of Sampras service and the unforgettable swerving he would apply to the ball do is something unmatched IMO
Borg, end of thread
Retired at his prime with 26 yo! He is considered the most complete player ever to play the sport. Even in his last two seasons where he was getting demotivated and entering burn out mode, he still crushed most of his opponents.
Also didn't play in the Aussie. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he could've ended up with 25 slams if he played til his early 30s and was bothered to fly down under.
Can't blame him for that. Nowadays it takes long time to get there, but I'll make a wild guess that back then it would probably take almost double.
But it was fine for Laver,Rosewall etc to travel the world picking up titles?
Travelling might sound fun for most of us and seems like a mean to justify ends for professionals, but I guess those were already signs that Borg was not a regular guy.
No mention of Andre Agassi?
Great player. Great attitude. Never quite the same talent as the best
He did go into underwear manufacturing,so yes.
Well they kinda had to.
The Aussie open wasn’t considered a major tournament back in the day.
Nadal on 20.
Wumming aside, Nadal on fire is insane to watch, greatest clay court player of all time by a huge margin.