Graham Potter | turns down Ajax job

Even if you were to discount his tenure at Chelsea, why would we go for him and not De Zerbi who is doing better at Brighton
 
RuudTom83 said:
Potter is coming off a huge fail...he should really have to go somewhere else and prove he's still got it before getting a chance at a United/Real/Bayern etc.

But there are not many alternatives out there, so I can see the attraction for the board. But it screams sideways step to me.
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Hansi Flick has won the Treble.
Zinedine Zidane has won Champions League titles back to back to back.
Antonio Conte has won the Premier League (as well as Serie A).

There are free agents who could be a convincing alternative to Potter.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Potter is coming off a huge fail...he should really have to go somewhere else and prove he's still got it before getting a chance at a United/Real/Bayern etc.
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Funny list of clubs. Bayern and Real have no issue with signing less experienced managers or managers who have failed in their last job, when they believe a manager is a good fit.

Which club does exist with a similarly broken structure, very mixed team, high expectations and little to back up these expectations recently? Which club can be used as a proof that someone has got what it takes to succeed at United? I honestly can't think of one, so every manager signing will be a kind of gamble (or in other words you have to look very carefully at things that can indicate if he can work under sich circumstances)
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Even if you were to discount his tenure at Chelsea, why would we go for him and not De Zerbi who is doing better at Brighton
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Cause he will probably cost north of 20m, and sacking EtH would cost 10-15m (depending if we do it now or in the summer).
 
Gordon Godot said:
I dont comment on Potter but why this constant love for ETH? And all this rubbish about 'optimal conditions', its called real life. Top managers deal with it. What has he shown in 18 months, last 9 months the football is woeful and some of the worst defeats in our history. His signings are woeful and the squad worst its been for decades. Do you watch a different team?
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I watch many different teams; mostly Manchester United, who I happen to support.

As to your other question, I haven't seen anybody showing Ten Hag anything that could be called 'constant love' by any reasonable person.

Judging by the rest of your post, I believe I can save us all some time: I could point to his credentials elsewhere, his performance last season, the litany of issues he's dealt with, and the nature of the club.

You'll then cry "no excuses" or some such, committing a fallacy of equivocation because you fail to see the difference between reasons and excuses. You'll probably then argue that any previous achievements weren't really achievements at all, but just the result of a collective mass delusion that only you and a handful of others were wise enough to see through. I imagine you will also throw in some condescending loaded questions and needlessly emotionally charged language in a misguided attempt to make your own opinion seem so obvious that anyone who doesn't share it must be blind, stupid, or both.

I'll politely ignore your tone and set about providing examples that undermine the vaguely salient points you do manage to make. This will annoy and anger you, making you more and more polemic in your responses.

Eventually, simply typing messages on an internet forum won't be enough. The thrill of knowing that what you believe is gospel will drive you to do something more. Something that makes a real difference.

So you get in your car and you drive. You drive until that gnawing feeling that other points of view exist consumes you. Until the importance of your own undeniable absolute truth inflates to fill the void tha has formed in the absence of what was once your own capacity for reason. Maybe you take a ferry? Maybe you take a plane?

It doesn't matter, because ultimately there was only one place your story could end, and one thing you could do to end it.



Enjoy your day, my friend.
 
stefan92 said:
Funny list of clubs. Bayern and Real have no issue with signing less experienced managers or managers who have failed in their last job, when they believe a manager is a good fit.

Which club does exist with a similarly broken structure, very mixed team, high expectations and little to back up these expectations recently? Which club can be used as a proof that someone has got what it takes to succeed at United? I honestly can't think of one, so every manager signing will be a kind of gamble (or in other words you have to look very carefully at things that can indicate if he can work under sich circumstances)
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According to many on here, you can hire only managers that haven't ever failed before or are 'unproven' at a top club. Those that have failed before are therefore worse than ETH (even though he's never proven himself at a top club).

That leaves us with 2 options, that I can think of: Zidane and Pep. Good luck with that!

But yes, you are right. I have made this point myself, but sometimes a manager will just fit with a club and the players, leading to success. Even if they have had some failure in the past.
 
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I won't be surprised if true. United are in a hurry. They can't waste weeks discussing player transfers with someone who only follow the Dutch league. Meanwhile ETH might not trust the setup INEOS want to build. If Ashworth is truly going to be our sporting director then he might want someone who he had previously had worked with and who knows he's good.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Even if you were to discount his tenure at Chelsea, why would we go for him and not De Zerbi who is doing better at Brighton
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I think De Zerbi would be high/top on everyone's list. I just wonder if he would be interested in the move or not, and whether we'd be willing to pay a big fee to bring him in, on top of the fee to sack ETH.
 
Whether you rate Potter as a coach or not it can’t be denied that he looked completely out of his depth at Chelsea, who are a tiny club in comparison to United.

Utter deer in the headlights like Moyes at United.
 
Rockets Redglare said:
Whether you rate Potter as a coach or not it can’t be denied that he looked completely out of his depth at Chelsea, who are a tiny club in comparison to United.

Utter deer in the headlights like Moyes at United.
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TBF he moved from possibly the best run club in the UK to a circus.
 
Red00012 said:
We are a circus at times
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Yes.

But if we bring the right people in than we won't. Blanc, Ashworth and Mitchell are among the best in class. Ashworth had already worked with Potter as well. He knows his strengths and he certainly acknowledge his limitations
 
It seems the problem is a dearth of options with PL experience, which leaves us with the uninspired hard look at Potter. But are there not a few promising managers in La Liga we can pry loose to take on what would be a monumental challenge but one they might be perfectly situated to take on?
 
Potter managing us is why I have severe reservations about Ratcliffe.

His would be a hiring for ideological over footballing reasons - he's British so he's applicable. Brexit Jim to the fore.

Hopefully, they see sense and hire a serious manager based on performance.
 
stefan92 said:
Which club does exist with a similarly broken structure, very mixed team, high expectations and little to back up these expectations recently? Which club can be used as a proof that someone has got what it takes to succeed at United? I honestly can't think of one, so every manager signing will be a kind of gamble (or in other words you have to look very carefully at things that can indicate if he can work under sich circumstances)
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For me I can't just forget or look past what he did at Chelsea. Potter would need to win something before I would change my mind.

As far as what other clubs could you use to gauge a managers credentials for the United job then like I mentioned doing it as a big club would be a start. Winning trophies would be another place to starts. With Potter is basically an empty CV with only a few memories of Brighton playing some decent stuff (who now play even better after he's left haha)
 
People are vastly overrating his time at Brighton. He finished 15th and 16th before he finished 9th, yet he was supposedly at the best run club in the country?

de Zerbi keeps losing his best players and their style of play and competitiveness doesn’t suffer. He immediately took them up a level upon arrival.

Chelsea was a car crash and, crucially, he couldn’t score goals in the premier league. The very opposite of what we need right now.

He isn’t good enough, he doesn’t have the personality for it, and there is literally nothing in the “pros” column to suggest that he could do it.

It would be daft and destined to fail from the off. More time and resources wasted and confirmation that the change we desperately need isn’t coming.
 
Maluco said:
People are vastly overrating his time at Brighton. He finished 15th and 16th before he finished 9th, yet he was supposedly at the best run club in the country?

de Zerbi keeps losing his best players and their style of play and competitiveness doesn’t suffer. He immediately took them up a level upon arrival.

Chelsea was a car crash and, crucially, he couldn’t score goals in the premier league. The very opposite of what we need right now.

He isn’t good enough, he doesn’t have the personality for it, and there is literally nothing in the “pros” column to suggest that he could do it.

It would be daft and destined to fail from the off. More time and resources wasted and confirmation that the change we desperately need isn’t coming.
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Spot on. I'm also failing to see the positives of this possible appointment. We wouldn't look to be poaching him if he were already at a club, and I suspect the fact he's out of work and readily available is heavily driving our interest. If thats the case then its better just sticking with ETH until the end of the season, and then going for a De Zerbie/Amorim type appointment in the summer. It's not like parachuting Graham feckin Potter in now is going to save our season midway.
 
#07 said:
Hansi Flick has won the Treble.
Zinedine Zidane has won Champions League titles back to back to back.
Antonio Conte has won the Premier League (as well as Serie A).

There are free agents who could be a convincing alternative to Potter.
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Do people ever learn.

There is nothing at all convincing about Antonio Conte. Dreadful football, signs retirees and has blown up at every club he's been at.
 
Maluco said:
People are vastly overrating his time at Brighton. He finished 15th and 16th before he finished 9th, yet he was supposedly at the best run club in the country?

de Zerbi keeps losing his best players and their style of play and competitiveness doesn’t suffer. He immediately took them up a level upon arrival.

Chelsea was a car crash and, crucially, he couldn’t score goals in the premier league. The very opposite of what we need right now.

He isn’t good enough, he doesn’t have the personality for it, and there is literally nothing in the “pros” column to suggest that he could do it.

It would be daft and destined to fail from the off. More time and resources wasted and confirmation that the change we desperately need isn’t coming.
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Exactly
 
Maluco said:
People are vastly overrating his time at Brighton. He finished 15th and 16th before he finished 9th, yet he was supposedly at the best run club in the country?

de Zerbi keeps losing his best players and their style of play and competitiveness doesn’t suffer. He immediately took them up a level upon arrival.

Chelsea was a car crash and, crucially, he couldn’t score goals in the premier league. The very opposite of what we need right now.

He isn’t good enough, he doesn’t have the personality for it, and there is literally nothing in the “pros” column to suggest that he could do it.

It would be daft and destined to fail from the off. More time and resources wasted and confirmation that the change we desperately need isn’t coming.
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Potter took over a club that was flirting with relegation every season, playing awful football under Hughton. De Zerbi took over a highflying team sitting in 4th benefiting from the fruits of Potter's labour. He laid the ground works and was clearly improving the squad each season. To just say he finished 15th, 16th and 9th removes all nuance and context.

The Brighton he took over wasn't the Brighton we see today. They went through a process of improvement over several years and Potter had a big hand in that. De Zerbi walked into a completely different club than the one Potter walked into.

I'm not arguing for Potter's credentials as a potential United manager. I think both parties should stay well away from each other but I think you're doing a massive, massive disservice to him by the way you've characterised his Brighton years.
 
WeePat said:
Potter took over a club that was flirting with relegation every season, playing awful football under Hughton. De Zerbi took over a highflying team sitting in 4th benefiting from the fruits of Potter's labour. He laid the ground works and was clearly improving the squad each season. To just say he finished 15th, 16th and 9th removes all nuance and context.

The Brighton he took over wasn't the Brighton we see today. They went through a process of improvement over several years and Potter had a big hand in that. De Zerbi walked into a completely different club than the one Potter walked into.

I'm not arguing for Potter's credentials as a potential United manager. I think both parties should stay well away from each other but I think you're doing a massive, massive disservice to him by the way you've characterised his Brighton years.
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I feel like Brighton's ascension was largely down to their ownership and scouting system, more so than Potter's coaching. I'm not downplaying Potter's work at Brighton, but I feel like his legacy there is overrated.
 
The funny thing about De Zerbi is that no one would have wanted him if we scouted him to take over instead of EtH (in a hypothetical world he hasn’t taken over at Brighton) - everyone would have been up in arms about it.

It’s like everyone is searching for this perfect manager which doesn’t exist and then crying when they’re chosen one doesn’t work out.
 
WeePat said:
Potter took over a club that was flirting with relegation every season, playing awful football under Hughton. De Zerbi took over a highflying team sitting in 4th benefiting from the fruits of Potter's labour. He laid the ground works and was clearly improving the squad each season. To just say he finished 15th, 16th and 9th removes all nuance and context.

The Brighton he took over wasn't the Brighton we see today. They went through a process of improvement over several years and Potter had a big hand in that. De Zerbi walked into a completely different club than the one Potter walked into.

I'm not arguing for Potter's credentials as a potential United manager. I think both parties should stay well away from each other but I think you're doing a massive, massive disservice to him by the way you've characterised his Brighton years.
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If I was Palace, I would be looking at him. Don’t get me wrong.

But people go too far the other way. He couldn’t score goals and he proved that wasn’t a one off at Chelsea. His faults are something a club like Palace can afford to punt on.

He isn’t good enough for Manchester United. Looking at his managerial history, even with nuance and context is just a further of example of how far standards are dropping. He shouldn’t even be on a shortlist. It’s comical.

That’s without even looking at how dour he is and his complete lack of charisma. It’s just a terrible fit with literally nothing concrete in the pros column.
 
Wish we gave him more time at Chelsea, i still think hes a really good manager despite the results with us.
 
Kaos said:
I feel like Brighton's ascension was largely down to their ownership and scouting system, more so than Potter's coaching. I'm not downplaying Potter's work at Brighton, but I feel like his legacy there is overrated.
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But you are downplaying his work at Brighton if you say it is largely down to their ownership and scouting system. Why is De Zerbi getting so many plaudits then? It's still the same ownership and scouting system as when Potter was there.
 
Maluco said:
If I was Palace, I would be looking at him. Don’t get me wrong.

But people go too far the other way. He couldn’t score goals and he proved that wasn’t a one off at Chelsea. His faults are something a club like Palace can afford to punt on.

He isn’t good enough for Manchester United. Looking at his managerial history, even with nuance and context is just a further of example of how far standards are dropping. He shouldn’t even be on a shortlist. It’s comical.

That’s without even looking at how dour he is and his complete lack of charisma. It’s just a terrible fit with literally nothing concrete in the pros column.
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Yeah I'm not saying United should go for him. I think it's an awful match both for Potter and for United. I just took exception to the way you described his time at Brighton. I can see where you are coming from with everything else you're saying here.
 
WeePat said:
But you are downplaying his work at Brighton if you say it is largely down to their ownership and scouting system. Why is De Zerbi getting so many plaudits then? It's still the same ownership and scouting system as when Potter was there.
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Exactly!

You could put any manager in place and you’ll get similar results.

It’s the structure which helps it work, it’s not solely down to the manager
 
WeePat said:
But you are downplaying his work at Brighton if you say it is largely down to their ownership and scouting system. Why is De Zerbi getting so many plaudits then? It's still the same ownership and scouting system as when Potter was there.
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I suspect because he's taken Brighton a step above, and this is despite the team being constantly dismantled by bigger clubs. But again I'd also say that's a testament to the ownership and the structure they have in place.

Neither Potter nor De Zerbi would enjoy similar levels of improvement at United considering our current structure.
 
WeePat said:
But you are downplaying his work at Brighton if you say it is largely down to their ownership and scouting system. Why is De Zerbi getting so many plaudits then? It's still the same ownership and scouting system as when Potter was there.
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It's also a ridiculous rhetoric that's used in defense of Erik, as if structure enhances a managers individual capabilities.
 
Redstain said:
It's also a ridiculous rhetoric that's used in defense of Erik, as if structure enhances a managers individual capabilities.
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Potter is clearly a proven failure at a big club. If it's low tier sources claiming he's a candidate then we can be reasonably assured it's going to be BS.
 
No sane supporter who has been watching us the last 12 months can seriously think we'd be any worse off under Potter/Ashworth than what we currently are.

Half way through the season and our GD is - 5 FFS!

#Potter #TheChosenOne
 
I would not go with Potter even if United played quidditch rather than footy
 
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