pretty much like the caf then
Graeme Sourness | Retires from “punditry”
- Thread starter Bubz27
- Start date
pretty much like the caf then
I'm sure there's lots that goes on behind closed doors but the fact is our team is shot to bits and Mou has criticised the players for lacking the strength to deal with their injuries. SAF didn't make the same comments at all.
Anyway we're moving away from the original point, Souness' comments were spot on, we need to man up and show some fight and desire.
Any team which gets to a European final will have to deal with over 60 games a season - not really sure why anyone's looking for sympathy for being good. Especially with the massive squads in the modern game - a far cry from the 14 or so players the likes of Liverpool survived with in their hey-day.
I think he spoke some sense tonight when saying the manager is pre-excusing bad performances by saying the players are tired. Had a point when he said the players should man up and accept they're playing for the biggest club in the world and they should expect playing these amount of games!
It's also worth noting that players didn't get on like wet fecking tissues back in the day.
Of course he's done better. Not by much mind you and both had disappointing seasons but we spent 20 years telling everyone how the league is the one and true indicator of quality. They have 9 more points than us so obviously they are better than us if we use our own logic. That doesn't mean they had a better season though as trophies are more exciting than league position, they just aren't necessarily an indicator of quality. And obviously, if you play front foot pro active football that is generally considered entertaining, you always get more slack and that is why Wenger for so long and now Pep get less criticism. Nothing upsets neutrals more than impotence and sheer tediousness.
Why isn't it comparable? If anything the more physical style of play back then and the worse condition of the pitches would make a player more tired/more unlikely to be able to play twice a week. Plus they wouldn't be able to get the same level of treatment as the players today can.
And he turned down the chance to sign Cantona and Schmeichel.
Because they didn't run as much or cover as much ground. What I said about that Liverpool side going out on the piss and smoking like chimneys isn't made up.
And if you play in the champions league you play Wednesday and Saturday.
You need to check your stats too. Chelsea and Spurs finished top four starting in Europa. So did City when they made it for the first time. Liverpool when they won the treble in the old UEFA cup.
Is there evidence to support this? I don't doubt the smoking and drinking, that just increases the likelihood that players back then were tougher to be able to do that and still play every game though. Although if they did indeed run much less like you say then that could explain it.
Really think we need to take the criticism on the chin. There is not much to argue with. Just hope it changes next season
And you all know if somehow Liverpool were in same situation with Jose as boss with same cash spent. Everyone here would have a field day if they finished 6th and had such a poor season
And you all know if somehow Liverpool were in same situation with Jose as boss with same cash spent. Everyone here would have a field day if they finished 6th and had such a poor season
Modern players run further in a game and with more sprints per game. They play in the edge now. In Souness's day they didn't
@sizzling sausages
Yes there is evidence
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...uld-have-run-rings-round-your-lot-136038.html
That is from 2002. I would very much imagine that now the game is even more intense.
Yes but there wouldn't be two former United players saying this in the studio after a Liverpool game.
Sadly not sure the figures were able to be tracked back then but given how much more physically fit players are now, running over 10kms a game, there's absolutely no chance that was bettered in the dark ages of the backpass, ten pints of Guinness and 40 marlboro - unless you disagree?
Lol go and watch any game from the 60s to the 80s and tell me if they run or play at the same tempo. No chance. It's all fits and spurts.
It's been the same at Liverpool, Arsenal and City though.
United just get the most stick despite Jose being in the job the shortest amount of time.
Laughable really.
Graeme was never tired because his goalkeeper saw more of the ball than he ever did.
Lets be honest Souness couldn't run a bath.
For some reason players always seem to perform marginally better whilst playing CL football. As for that statistic, I'm sure I've heard it on BT sport during our group stages this year. Maybe they were talking about starting in UEFA Cup and winning it then? I'm not sure but I stand corrected on that front anyway.
Cheers!
I wasn't really doubting TR's statement, just wanted to see how much of a difference there was.
City and Liverpool have had far better seasons in the league. Scored loads more goals. Liverpool have done this wit a fraction of the resources Utd have
Arsene wenger has received nothing but stick all season really. You must have missed that
The only meaningful stat in that article is this:
That's not much different from the current average which is about 10-11km.
Obviously the players are, on the whole, better physical specimens than they were. The research shows that players are making more high-intensity efforts. And if you watch most football from the 1960s for example, it can be pretty staid stuff. But the level of advances can be overplayed. The biggest improvements IMO came in the late 1970s ushered in by the higher intensity, high pressing football of Holland and Dynamo Kiev and that rippled in through the club game in the 1980s and onwards.
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I think he's spot on when it comes to his tiredness point. Think back to when we last won the champions league. The season after we won the league, the league cup and got to the final of the champions league. We also had to fly to to the FIFA club World Cup, which we won.
Was fergie complaining about tiredness? Or was he chasing every trophy and managing his squad properly. The fact we are accepting the excuse of tiredness is ridiculous.
Was fergie complaining about tiredness? Or was he chasing every trophy and managing his squad properly. The fact we are accepting the excuse of tiredness is ridiculous.
TBH, we would have won more games this season if the back pass rule was still allowed. 
Some of his points tonight were decent. Others I didnt fully agree with.
Redknapp though, just a tool.
Some of his points tonight were decent. Others I didnt fully agree with.
Redknapp though, just a tool.
You may have missed it but there's also Champions League games played on Tuesday's.
Sourness is a miserable twat but I think he may be onto something here. We've been incredibly flat over the last few games. You'd like to think it's a case of conserving energy so we can fly out of the blocks in the final but we have players supposedly auditioning for that game and they're fluffing their lines too. Nobody looks up for a fight at all. There's an aura of negativity coming off Mourinho in every interview and you have to wonder if that's filtering through to the players. I'm just hoping that his mood and attitude is very different away from the cameras. We'll find out against Ajax. A really energetic, fired up performance will fully justify the last few deflated displays. If we don't get that, well, I'd say the manager has to take the blame.
If you say something enough, people will start to believe it - exactly the same with giving up on the league with 4 games to go, when winning all 4 would have given us 4th place.
I argued this after the Spurs game as it seems Mourinho has convinced many people that throwing the league away was better than trying to win these games in case injuries/tiredness occurred because (may not be exact quote) "we had no chance of winning all of the games"...I just can't believe it - a club of our tradition willing to roll over (and the recent performances show nothing to counter this)...and loads of people actually think this is OK.
Perhaps he'll be proven right and it was the sensible thing to do, with winning the EL and it starting the road back to challenging for the title but none of it sits well with me.
Points wise City and Liverpool haven't had a far better season. We were ahead of City only a few weeks ago and one point behind Liverpool.
Spurs and Chelsea have had great seasons. Everyone else has been par.
Did I make the points up then?
Sorry if that doesn't fit with your narrative but it's true.
Compare the analysis of Lampard and Henry with Souness and J.Redknapp. They are leagues apart. Souness is out of touch with the game and Jamie was never in touch with the game in the first place.
I don't mind Souness, often makes some good points. He's harsher on the better players who could / should do more mainly I think. Can see why his Management wasn't brilliant but as a pundit with an opinion I think he does it well a lot of the time.
Redknapp is just ridiculous.
Redknapp is just ridiculous.
He's obsessed with how much Pogba cost.
I don't think thats true, United get the most stick I think because you are so un-United like these days and play in such a cowardly manner under Jose. You're over 20 goals behind in terms of goals scored compared to the rest of the top 6 and the big chances missed, Pogba constantly hitting the woodwork myths around here and simply not true at all.
City under Pep have no club identity to live up to, so no one can say Pep is pissing all over the City way There is no City way and he's still taken as much criticism as Jose.
Klopp might be mental (like Pep) but he certainly excites and has a go and Liverpool have kind of become the lovable underdogs under him.
Wenger is always gonna Wenger.
Chelsea and Spurs are both more pragmatic than the other 3 but they attack well and have wracked up the goals. Chelsea have been the best team by a mile at both ends of the pitch.
I think United take more stick, not because you've been the same. You've been worse in so many ways despite the fact the trophies will gloss it over. You don't entertain, your nothing like one expects of Manchester United so you get the most stick because you are just as poor but in a much more cowardly way. Of course Jose will put this right in time but it is what it is.
It's clear Souness doesn't like us but he does make a lot of valid points on United