Surely now is the best time for them to sell, with the ongoing pandemic?
Problem is, does Saudis now even want?
Problem is, does Saudis now even want?
Glazers / Woodward out! (One down)
- Thread starter Icemav
- Start date
Any shares/stock market experts (genuine one's) on here?
I understand Bryan has converted his B class shares into A...as did Kevin last year!
I understand Bryan has converted his B class shares into A...as did Kevin last year!
Look forward to seeing you all in January, yeah? 
I’m not pro-Glazers, I wish we had different (responsible and respectable) ownership or the Glazers would run the club infinitely better. I’m also not really Ole In or Ole Out, I’ve seen some very good things Ole has done and some things that are quite concerning.
There are a couple of narratives that have become dogma on here, that I really wish would be scrutinized more.
I agree with a few of those strongly, and disagree with a couple. Namely, I’m not a huge proponent of a DoF, and I don’t think it’s the magic bullet that will solve all the issues at the club. Many clubs are successful without a DoF. I’m not opposed to trying a DoF at this point, but my expectations that appointing a DoF will magically fix all of our issues are tempered. I am very passionate though that our wage structure and contract extensions have been horrifying at times, and the club should be rightly damned for those (although we really don’t know how much the managers were responsible, it’s rather mysterious isn’t it?). That’s my biggest grievance with the club.
There are a couple of narratives that have become dogma on here, that I really wish would be scrutinized more.
- "The Glazers are investing in Tampa Bay, and not Manchester United." This is the stupidest one of all. Anyone who understands how the NFL and the salary cap and structure works for the NFL knows that the Glazers are not investing money in the Tampa Bay Bucs and it most certainly is not being siphoned off from Manchester United. If you believe this to be true, I encourage you to talk to any Tampa Bay fan and ask them, “How do you like getting all those players from the Glazers with our money.” They will treat that line of questioning as imbecilic. Want proof, how many Tampa Bay fans have accused the Glazers of investing in United every time United buys a player, instead of their team for the past 15 years? Answer: Not one, because they understand how the NFL salary cap structure works.
- "United (The Glazers) only invest in the team when we’re not in the Champions League."
- 2015/2016 (Made the Champions League under LvG the year before): We bought Martial, Schneiderlin, Depay, Darmian and Schweinsteiger and got Romero on a free. Many people thought, at the time this was one of our best transfer windows ever. We did sell quite a few players (Di Maria, Chich, RvP, Nani, Jonny Evans, etc). So, from a net spend perspective maybe it wasn't a huge outlay. However, I don’t recall anyone at the time saying that LvG wasn’t backed in the transfer window. People were really happy and optimistic with this window.
- 2018/2019 (Made the Champions League under Mourinho the year before): We bought Fred and Dalot, and Lee Grant. This is the one everyone is talking about. But let’s go back and remember this period. Mourinho was already unpopular, and then proceeded to sulk through the Summer, including his surly interviews on the Summer Tour. I remember posting he's done himself no favors with his employers with his interviews criticizing the tour, he also lost his shit about hotel accommodations at one point. His position was tenuous at best, with the club, the players and the fans. The players the media were linking us to, like Jerome Boateng, were horrifying. I contend they stopped backing the manager because of the manager, not because of “we made the Champions League”.
- And then there’s this year… everyone can judge that accordingly.
- To try to keep a bit of perspective, we were also convinced the board didn't back Fergie in 2003 and it was the end of days. That year we signed Tim Howard, Eric Djemba Djemba, Kleberson ... and one Cristiano Ronaldo.
- My point is, this idea that seems to have become dogma around here that “United only invests when we’re out of the Champions League” is flimsy at best, and pretty much untrue. Now, I will say this, it doesn’t apply to Ferguson, because we were always in the Champions League under Fergie although I recall a different, yet equally flimsy variant of this during Fergie's time which was, “We only invest when we lose the league”. Oh, to be able to go back to those heady glory days of tin-foil hat conspiracy theories, eh, chaps? By the way, I think that the "we don't invest as much when we win the league" stuff went back to pre-Glazer ownership.
- The debt, it’s management, and the failure to make more significant strides to decrease the debt
- The transfer policy and/or lack of a director of football
- The managers we’ve hired
- Our wage structure and contract extensions
- Lack of investment in the stadium
- Failure to engage with supporters
I agree with a few of those strongly, and disagree with a couple. Namely, I’m not a huge proponent of a DoF, and I don’t think it’s the magic bullet that will solve all the issues at the club. Many clubs are successful without a DoF. I’m not opposed to trying a DoF at this point, but my expectations that appointing a DoF will magically fix all of our issues are tempered. I am very passionate though that our wage structure and contract extensions have been horrifying at times, and the club should be rightly damned for those (although we really don’t know how much the managers were responsible, it’s rather mysterious isn’t it?). That’s my biggest grievance with the club.
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Woody needs to accept the fact he just isn't cut out for this side of the business and needs to step aside for the good of this club
Yes. Plenty of revisionist history goes on here.
Plenty of short memories and distorting of facts to suit agendas.
I.e. Lets sell our whole back line, yet last year we conceded 2 more goals than the dippers.
Glazers are terrible owners, but we spend as much as any club if you look at it over a 5-10 year period.
The last thing we want to do is end up in financial difficulties like barcelona or real madrid.
Fully agree. It's shit and embarrassing now, but I'd rather this and worse than being owned by that regime.
Yes. Plenty of revisionist history goes on here.
Plenty of short memories and distorting of facts to suit agendas.
I.e. Lets sell our whole back line, yet last year we conceded 2 more goals than the dippers.
Glazers are terrible owners, but we spend as much as any club if you look at it over a 5-10 year period.
The last thing we want to do is end up in financial difficulties like barcelona or real madrid.
Some people are very passionately anti-Glazer. That's their right, and I respect their opinion, and I share part of their concerns and opinions as well.
Look, I rated Jadon Sancho, too. I'd be happier too, if we signed him. But it seems like for some reason signing Jadon Sancho this window became almost some sort of litmus test for whether or not the club has any nous in the transfer market and the club's and/or the Glazer's willingness to strengthen the team. And that transfer hasn't come off, so it seems like some people have decided it's a reason to lose all perspective.
I really wanted us to sign Paul Gascoigne. I was crushed when he signed for Tottenham.
Things we didn't do when we didn't get Gascoigne:
- Hope for the manager to get sacked
- Act like it's the end of the world
- Lose all perspective and lapse into conspiracy theories
- Hope we lose matches or get relegated to prove a point
Excellent post. I mostly agree. I was also disappointed with the poor (lack of) investment following Ronaldo's sale, and the way that the Ferguson/Gill transition was conducted.
Re: Sancho, let’s just say I find it totally understandable that the board has mixed feelings about breaking our transfer record for a youngster because they don’t have total faith in the manager. I don’t have faith in the manager too.
Just thought I’d drop this piece of thought here which no one will care about.
Just thought I’d drop this piece of thought here which no one will care about.
Oh yeah there is no doubt this lack of investment really first bit hard back in the summer of 2009
Ole is now being implicated unfairly because it suits the Board and this is almost the MOST DANGEROUS cost of this window. Ole led our team over half of last season to the most points in the PL, achieving an almost-unthinkable position of 3rd and CL qualification from 14th place.Re: Sancho, let’s just say I find it totally understandable that the board has mixed feelings about breaking our transfer record for a youngster because they don’t have total faith in the manager. I don’t have faith in the manager too.
Just thought I’d drop this piece of thought here which no one will care about.
Rather than leveraging this promising finish (as Liverpool's owners did by buying VVD and Alisson in the summer of 2018 after Klopp had got the 2017/18 team playing well) the board has acted as they have in EVERY instance post-SAF by underspending once CL qualification is achieved. I would include the underspending pre-SAF too, but we were lucky because of the pre-Glazer purchases of Rooney and Ronaldo and because SAF was a wonder.
At the end of last season I would have thought we needed a CB, a RW and DM most urgently. We haven't achieved any of those goals and therefore have started the season badly AS A DIRECT RESULT OF UNDERSPENDING.
Which do you think is a cheaper strategy for the board - actually invest to go for the title or implicate and fire a manager every 3 seasons at the top4 profit-maximising sweet spot? So, obviously, now will start the idea that Ole is responsible for our troubles caused by underspending. He is not alone in this - while I thought the football under Mourinho and LvG was tumescent and non-United, they too suffered for the board's top4-as-the-only-goal policy.
The Glazers are small-time strip mall owners and lucked into a leveraged buyout of the biggest club in the world so I can't blame them for following their economic incentives. For me, the person who has let us down most is SAF. His is the only voice that could make a difference but he is too used to being part of the establishment, first as a manager and now as a Board member, to raise his voice.
Focusing our ire on Woodward/Judge is useless - they are the messenger. The message is that the Glazers never had enough money to do anything other than a leveraged buyout of Utd in 2005. That event is still the reason why we are at this alien, for the great Manchester United, sorry state in 2020.
Yeah Woody & Judge need to finally see sense after this window and accept the fact it's time to change transfer strategy and appoint a PROPER DOF in time for next summer.
You wont be missed. There will be 2 million more fans replacing you.
There is nothing wrong about Saudi Arabia. Whatever accusations you may have of the Saudis, the same can be applied to the British and American Governments. You just chose to believe their spin. Serious crimes committed in Iraq. Basically destroyed an entire nation on the back of lies.
Saudi Money funds the national health service in Britain. No one refuses medical treatment because the NHS gets funds from Saudis.
I don't care if Saudis, Putin or Angela Merkel own Manchester United. I want to support a team that matches the ambitions of the fans and respects its history to compete and win major trophies.
How can you defend the Glazers rubbish show? Since Fergusson left we have never been in a title race. Is that acceptable to you?
Apparently we have spent money like anyone else. That is not the argument. We should be spending more than them because we make more than them. Simple.
Put it this way. Our demise is a direct consequence of the Glazer ownership. In any organisation Woodward would have been sacked already. He won't be sacked here because his job is to preserve dividends for the Glazers and himself.
I wish most of our fans could wake up and smell the coffee. Teams like Everton and Aston Villa are making better transfer decisions than United. And you think that's acceptable.
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I am going to say this now. If we miss out on champions league football this season it will be catastrophic for the club and the Glazers due to the financial implications of this coronavirus pandemic. I say it would make it extremely hard to get back in the champions league the following season due to not only the loss of revenue due to no fans at the stadium but also the loss of champions league revenue on top of that. Probably why they are speaking to Mauricio pochettino now. Ole is a dead man walking.
A good source that we're speaking to him please?
Good!!!!!
Lets finish 8th then and be done with them. Fans need to come together now and get them out. 35m net spend when we are supposed to trying to close the gap to Liverpool. If anything the gap is now bigger. Everton have out spent us ffs. Spurs n Arsenal had much better windows. The end is coming. How much longer can our fans put up with this crap?
Ole is a dead man walking.
Re: Sancho, let’s just say I find it totally understandable that the board has mixed feelings about breaking our transfer record for a youngster because they don’t have total faith in the manager. I don’t have faith in the manager too.
Just thought I’d drop this piece of thought here which no one will care about.
Should not effect signing one of the best talents in the world for a position you have needed a player for over 7 years. Short-sighted, any manager would love to work with Sancho.
https://www.sportbible.com/football...-pochettino-over-replacing-solskjaer-20201005
Now it may not be true so I should of said I read somewhere we are speaking to Pochettino
A new manager won't fix anything mate. I have been guilty of wanting Jose Mourinho and Louis Van gaal out previously but it's those twats Ed Woodward and the board/owners that is the problem. If we get Pochettino i won't be excited. Just the same crap cycle repeating itself. Although this coronavirus pandemic and missing out on champions league football might make them see sense and sell up.
How can anyone defend the Glazers and Ed after messing up big time in the past 8 years? It is not about whether we signed Sancho, but how we act, which structure we have, how they bring the club forward. And there, we are just incompetent and so poor, it is shocking and infuriating!
I know it won't. That's what I'm saying by them. Get the Glazers and Woodward out is what I said. Ole is a dead man walking though because of them.
I agree with this.
Yep I want those twats to sell up. They screwed Ole over like previous manager's.
Its nothing to do with "faith in the manager" and all to do with the board and owners lining their pockets.Re: Sancho, let’s just say I find it totally understandable that the board has mixed feelings about breaking our transfer record for a youngster because they don’t have total faith in the manager. I don’t have faith in the manager too.
Just thought I’d drop this piece of thought here which no one will care about.
Why would they break the transfer record on a youngster, they havea achieved top 4 and that is their goal.
At this stage I'd take a disaster of a season if it resulted in fans driving these out of the club.
Of course we would. What's one more awful season in grand scheme of things? We won't be contenders anyway so at least a crash and burn season raises the question.
Any fan who gets their Season ticket back next May for 2021 22 season is now part of the problem. You're ensuring this club goes nowhere. It's time to cut off their money and force a sale.
If anything, coronavirus has proven how important match day revenue actually is for United. Season ticket holders not turning up would be devastating both financially as well as from a PR perspective (if the world is back to normal, which is a big if).
Whatever the reasons the board has for reluctantly splashing an insane amount on a 20 year old is up in the air.
But we can all agree that 105 million pounds is a feck ton of money, and it would feel like a lot less riskier investment if the manager in charge was more world class.
Share price has dropped 30% since January mainly due to the pandemic obviously. This is an opportunity to help it continue to drop. If all our fans go back next season nothing is ever going to change. Grow a backbone and let's get this club back out of debt and hopefully I to the hands of someone who actually wants to see us win the title not just be around 4th place.
It would be devastating if people do not buy tickets, so the club loses on revenue. If they buy tickets but don’t show off, the Glazers won’t care that much.
Agree with this. Not buying any official United merchandise, planned family trip to OT in the spring has been cancelled. Every effort, every penny to deprive the owners of our money counts. They will have to sell. Time to get the great football club back. Now we are a PLC owned by Glazers, used to be the greatest football club on the planet. Nobody will do anything for us. It really is our job. Do not expect any player, ex-coach or manager to support any protest, SAF won't do it either. It really is our job and responsibility. The leeches treat the club as business only, they were all acting fecking smug when they said that the commercial success is not directly related to results on the pitch. Let us show them that there is nothing worse commercially than a raging fan or unhappy customer. Screw them.
We've got legions of 'top reds' who would pay to go see the player fold their laundry on the pitch. This is the biggest issue.
Our fans are part of the problem. Madrid n Barcelona fans wouldn't stand for this crap and not for as long as we have.
Sorry should have been clearer, by not showing up I meant not renewing.
It really has nothing to do with the manager. Managers average time at a Premiership club is probably 2 years! We have a large scouting team who obviously rate Sancho. We tried to sign him multiple times and failed. Then we panic and sign players in positions we don't need. The board did the same with Jose and didn't back him after he finished 2nd, it is history repeating, after 7 years of terrible recruitment, you are falling for the "blame the manager" excuse again?
Woodward and Judge couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag.
Since Malcolm was dead, his six children are running this club. Sir Alex or Sir Bobby are not part of the board member.
Avram and Joel are directly involve managing with Woodward, Arnold, and Baty. But Bryan is the majority share holder and he didn't interest in football at all.
It's difficult to get rid all of them, but can we kick them out one by one?
Obviously starting with Woodward, then may be someone has to convince Bryan to take his money elsewhere. It will be the chaos in the board and the end of Glazers in this football club.
Sadly, this scheme is only in my fantasy.
| Richard Neil Arnold | 48 | 2013 | Group Managing Director & Director |
| Joel Glazer | 52 | 2012 | Co-Executive Chairman |
| Avram A. Glazer | 58 | 2012 | Executive Co-Chairman |
| Cliff Baty | 49 | - | Chief Financial Officer & Director |
| Edward Gareth Woodward | 48 | 2012 | Executive Vice Chairman |
| Bryan G. Glazer | 55 | 2011 | Director |
| Kevin E. Glazer | 57 | - | Director |
| Edward S. Glazer | 49 | - | Director |
| Robert Mark Leitão | 56 | - | Independent Director |
| Man Utd Sawhney | 52 | 2012 | Independent Non-Executive Director |
Avram and Joel are directly involve managing with Woodward, Arnold, and Baty. But Bryan is the majority share holder and he didn't interest in football at all.
It's difficult to get rid all of them, but can we kick them out one by one?
Obviously starting with Woodward, then may be someone has to convince Bryan to take his money elsewhere. It will be the chaos in the board and the end of Glazers in this football club.
Sadly, this scheme is only in my fantasy.
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Re: Sancho, let’s just say I find it totally understandable that the board has mixed feelings about breaking our transfer record for a youngster because they don’t have total faith in the manager. I don’t have faith in the manager too.
Just thought I’d drop this piece of thought here which no one will care about.
The board love fans like you, it's as simple as that.