Give Diego a break Roy

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

trailer park boys back..

kin watch ya back...

he knows ju shitsu...

or was that oragami?</strong><hr></blockquote>

get your facts right son, its karate, theres a world of diffrence.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

hey good one! you know you love me. lol</strong><hr></blockquote>

thats it, he's a loaded queer gypo...

how could i forget.

 

[corelive]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

hey good one! you know you love me. lol</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> like a hole in the fecking head <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

get your facts right son, its karate, theres a world of diffrence.</strong><hr></blockquote>

karate..

about the crappiest martial art..

infact its for faggots.

 

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by corelive:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> like a hole in the fecking head <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

yeah right, lolok i have good things to say, we where great tonight, really only 1 or 2 complaints but i will keep that for my new report.........

 

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

karate..

about the crappiest martial art..

infact its for faggots.


</strong><hr></blockquote>


god id love to meet ya! no really i would....

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>


god id love to meet ya! no really i would....</strong><hr></blockquote>


yep... mr karate expert.

u guys couldn't punch a hole through a paper bag..


karate.. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

trailer park boys back..

kin watch ya back...

he knows ju shitsu...

or was that oragami?</strong><hr></blockquote>

And how much do you know about go kan ryu? we are the biggest club in the world! we have over 45000 people train each week world wide, thats alot of faggots there then! there is no martial arts club that hold a candle to us, so before you take the piss, remember theres always an answer that you will get back from me son. what funny is i teach people from 5 to 67 im my classes and the 5yr olds would kick ya ass.. thanks ste. ps if you ever fancy taking karate up, drop me a line and i will set you up..

 

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


yep... mr karate expert.

u guys couldn't punch a hole through a paper bag..


karate.. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

why would you want tol punch a paper bag? bit of a strange fetish you have there <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> i bet you like paper bags dont you, i know your type....

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

And how much do you know about go kan ryu? we are the biggest club in the world! we have over 45000 people train each week world wide, thats alot of faggots there then! there is no martial arts club that hold a candle to us, so before you take the piss, remember theres always an answer that you will get back from me son. what funny is i teach people from 5 to 67 im my classes and the 5yr olds would kick ya ass.. thanks ste. ps if you ever fancy taking karate up, drop me a line and i will set you up..</strong><hr></blockquote>

karate is shite.


its two dimensional


ok karate kid....?

 

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

karate is shite.


its two dimensional


ok karate kid....?</strong><hr></blockquote>

as i said! 45000+ cant be wrong.. anyway im board of you now...

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

as i said! 45000+ cant be wrong.. anyway im board of you now...</strong><hr></blockquote>

well they are.

millions of peeps buy ladas.

i suppose they can't be wrong either.

 

[corelive]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

remember theres always an answer that you will get back from me son. </strong><hr></blockquote>


Hong kong phooey (The Janitor) is giggzy old man

 

[ste_grassham]

Originally posted by corelive:
<strong>


Hong kong phooey (The Janitor) is giggzy old man </strong><hr></blockquote>

oh bollox dont you start.......

 

[MancFanFromManc]

Easy children. Post a martial arts Topic in the General Forum if you want to bicker... back to the point

Was Roy a) protecting Diego, or b) didnt he have enough faith in him to convert it. Interesting difference of course.

If its "a" then its a worrying indication of just how low Forlan's confidence is.

If its "b" then there's little hope Forlan will ever become a decent striker at Man Utd.

Basically if DF cant strike a stationary ball past a backup goaly from 12 yards, when his team is 3 up......


ps. Shukokai for me

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

oh bollox dont you start.......</strong><hr></blockquote>

why ?? u gonna karate chop him in half??

 

[corelive]

Originally posted by ste_grassham:
<strong>

oh bollox dont you start.......</strong><hr></blockquote>

Me never not with a specialist
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
Peg seller

 

[giggzy]

specialist peg seller???


they're tough, they are.

 

[corelive]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>specialist peg seller???


they're tough, they are. </strong><hr></blockquote>

They are if they poke you in the eye with one

 

[antohan]

If anyone has a reason to want Diego to do well that's me. I'm proud to see him at United.

That said, when I heard of him joining us I was a bit worried about it simply because he needs to come of age, he does need a lot of work to be the finished article. On the one hand, I was confident that SAF was the right person to do that and red fans the best support he could get along that road.

BUT (and there's always one)

HE IS NOT AN OUT AND OUT PROLIFIC STRIKER. If that's what we signed him for and what we expect we are in for a disappointment. He does have all the qualities to become a class act for us but not in that role.

So, all I ask you is to continue to support him but stop doing such things as betting on him to be the top EPL goalscorer, he won't. He CAN score as much as Beckham or Scholes, i.e. he can and will but we cannot rely on him bagging them week-in week-out.

If we insist on him being what he isn't then I hope SAF and his Portuguese speaking troupe are better than I ever gave them credit for.

 

[WeasteDevil]

I hate this time of year, because one hell of a lot of people talk a right load of shite!

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>I hate this time of year, because one hell of a lot of people talk a right load of shite! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Antohan's post makes good sense to me.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>I hate this time of year, because one hell of a lot of people talk a right load of shite! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Weastie, the thing is Forlan was a great striker for Independiente but you are talking two completely different footballing worlds here.

Independiente plays (played) a completely different style to ours so an effective Independiente striker is not necessarily an effective Manchester United striker. The skills he used at Independiente would be most suitable for us with him being pulled back a bit and I think we have seen sufficient evidence that it is what he tends to do in order to contribute more to the team.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>
Antohan's post makes good sense to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thank you luv

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>If anyone has a reason to want Diego to do well that's me. I'm proud to see him at United.

That said, when I heard of him joining us I was a bit worried about it simply because he needs to come of age, he does need a lot of work to be the finished article. On the one hand, I was confident that SAF was the right person to do that and red fans the best support he could get along that road.

BUT (and there's always one)

HE IS NOT AN OUT AND OUT PROLIFIC STRIKER. If that's what we signed him for and what we expect we are in for a disappointment. He does have all the qualities to become a class act for us but not in that role.

So, all I ask you is to continue to support him but stop doing such things as betting on him to be the top EPL goalscorer, he won't. He CAN score as much as Beckham or Scholes, i.e. he can and will but we cannot rely on him bagging them week-in week-out.

If we insist on him being what he isn't then I hope SAF and his Portuguese speaking troupe are better than I ever gave them credit for.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Explain his strengths then.

I am of the opinion that all strikers should get their fair share of goals no matter what roles they play eg creator, holding the ball type etc.

We'll see how forlan does by Christmas.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
Explain his strengths then.

I am of the opinion that all strikers should get their fair share of goals no matter what roles they play eg creator, holding the ball type etc.

We'll see how forlan does by Christmas.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Independiente played a counter-attacking style in which Forlan pursued the following options:

1) Run like crazy, face the keeper and score (rare, it wasn't really a long ball game)

2) Run down either wing and cross or cut into the box to shoot from "tight" angles (i.e. not with goal in front of him but diagonally).

3) Hold up the ball on the edge of the box and setup someone coming through or alternatively shoot from mid-range (as in Leverkusen game -fecking Placente- and WC).

That's what he did for Independiente as a "striker" (I'd call it forward to be honest). Can we make good use of that? Yes, of course but we can't expect him to do RVNs job which is quite simply banging them in!

The issue is at Independiente the game was more "open", at United you continuously play against 10-man brickwalls so it is a "slightly" more complicated scenario. Furthermore, do you see the team using him as a pivot to hold up the ball/be the brain identifying the best way to break through? Mmmm...

This is exactly why you tend to see him outside/on the edge of the box, he is a link up player who will of course pursue his own goal-scoring openings but he is not a target man.

The question is, with everyone's expectations of him being a target man things get more complicated. I don't know to what extent SAF will play him linking up the game (probably too early and certainly not the right time to burden him with that responsibility) so the most logical way to exploit his skills and settle him would be to use him on the wings. As his game evolves and the confidence (everyone's) is restored we can start exploring the option of him performing a link-up role (particularly if we are insisting with this 4-5-1 scheme).

Or we can go for just insisting on the lad being a stand-in for RVN and pray that, against all odds, it works.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>

Independiente played a counter-attacking style in which Forlan pursued the following options:

1) Run like crazy, face the keeper and score (rare, it wasn't really a long ball game)

2) Run down either wing and cross or cut into the box to shoot from "tight" angles (i.e. not with goal in front of him but diagonally).

3) Hold up the ball on the edge of the box and setup someone coming through or alternatively shoot from mid-range (as in Leverkusen game -fecking Placente- and WC).

That's what he did for Independiente as a "striker" (I'd call it forward to be honest). Can we make good use of that? Yes, of course but we can't expect him to do RVNs job which is quite simply banging them in!

The issue is at Independiente the game was more "open", at United you continuously play against 10-man brickwalls so it is a "slightly" more complicated scenario. Furthermore, do you see the team using him as a pivot to hold up the ball/be the brain identifying the best way to break through? Mmmm...

This is exactly why you tend to see him outside/on the edge of the box, he is a link up player who will of course pursue his own goal-scoring openings but he is not a target man.

The question is, with everyone's expectations of him being a target man things get more complicated. I don't know to what extent SAF will play him linking up the game (probably too early and certainly not the right time to burden him with that responsibility) so the most logical way to exploit his skills and settle him would be to use him on the wings. As his game evolves and the confidence (everyone's) is restored we can start exploring the option of him performing a link-up role (particularly if we are insisting with this 4-5-1 scheme).

Or we can go for just insisting on the lad being a stand-in for RVN and pray that, against all odds, it works.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I very much doubt that anyone who has watched him play would believe that he was bought to be a target man in the EPL, he doesn't have the necessary physique for it.

A link-up man perhaps but don't need speed for that hence such a role will nullify one of his greatest strengths - pace. I remembered when he was first purchased some of us here were proclaiming that he was a striker who scores fantastic goals with either foot (I saw a few of his goals myself at the independiente website).

Right now, none of us here know for sure which position Forlan would best fit in, some even suggest using him as a back-up midfielder to Beckham and Giggs!

Come to think of it, if there's any blame to be attached for this sticky situation it should be solely on SAF himself, he's bought a player who he doesn't entirely trust and doesn't know what his best role in the team is. Kind of like Veron eh?

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>A link-up man perhaps but don't need speed for that hence such a role will nullify one of his greatest strengths - pace.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's where the style of play comes in. In a "tighter" league such as the EPL there isn't that much space to run into so the link up player need not have much pace. It can still be handy in certain scenarios. I remember myself thinking the Leverkusen game, being so "back and forth" would have been perfect for him had he already been more established (how many times did we see RVN totally knackered chasing the ball around during a counterattack?).

<strong>I remembered when he was first purchased some of us here were proclaiming that he was a striker who scores fantastic goals with either foot (I saw a few of his goals myself at the independiente website).</strong><hr></blockquote>

He does, you should just substitute the word striker with forward. He is not your traditional striker who waits for a ball to fall in the penalty box to slot it home.

<strong>
Right now, none of us here know for sure which position Forlan would best fit in, some even suggest using him as a back-up midfielder to Beckham and Giggs!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think that's how he can have the most immediate impact and settle down. Mind you, we need challenging backup there.

<strong>
Come to think of it, if there's any blame to be attached for this sticky situation it should be solely on SAF himself, he's bought a player who he doesn't entirely trust and doesn't know what his best role in the team is. Kind of like Veron eh?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't say he doesn't trust him or believe he shows promise. The issue is he has been thrown straight into the deep end, he is next on the firing line and that's quite a daunting prospect for SAF, Forlan and ourselves. Remember SAF expected to get the experience of Di Canio! That would have worked very well, sort of like Blanc "mentoring" the younger defenders. We just couldn't pull it off.

 

[nmfaiz_2001]

Originally posted by Red Tribe Leader:
<strong>

who fecking cares if he missed, everyone wanted it and we were 3-0 up, didn't u hear the crowd </strong><hr></blockquote>

its not gonna matter to the scoreline if he misses. but what will happen to him? dont u think his confidence affected greatly?

 

[reelworld]

Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
some even suggest using him as a back-up midfielder to Beckham and Giggs!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe that's the answer.
I think many of Forlan role when he came on as a subsitute was more as a winger, not a striker.
He come on for Giggs a couple of times and alst night he came on for Becks.
I think I read somewhere that before he was push upfront, he used to play as a winger.

 

[Lion]

Originally posted by nmfaiz_2001:
<strong>

its not gonna matter to the scoreline if he misses. but what will happen to him? dont u think his confidence affected greatly?</strong><hr></blockquote>

True. Even if he scored, don't think it will help much to bring his confidence back. Keano did the right thing.

 

[dmode]

Originally posted by Red Tribe Leader:
<strong>Why did Roy tell Ruud to take the penalty when Ruud gave the chance to Diego? </strong><hr></blockquote>

I really think that Roy and Ruud did the right thing, and I won't even dare to judge their action.

Diego has to score by himself and not with a penalty, which seems far much too easy for me...

I beleive that scoring a penalty would not have changed the situation, he has to fight and score by himself, and he's not the penalty taker. &lt;-- full stop.

 

[Manchesters Finest]

People are saying Ruud had to take it because what would happen to diegos confidence if he missed. Well does that mean that we should never give him the ball incase he misses and ruins his confidence? Also why would it have been taking the mickey out of the opposition? He is a striker and he is being payed to score goals. I didnt bother any1 when Fabien played outfield. I think he should have taken it. Roy might be the captain but the prawn sandwich brigade were screaming for diego to take it and to be honest, he needs all the support he can get at the mo.

 

[Livvie]

What might be more damaging to his confidence was Ruud's post match interview, when he said that Keane told him to take it because they needed to be sure.

Do they not have tact in Holland. Some things might be better left out of national interviews!

 

[Sharkey]

Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>
...Or we can go for just insisting on the lad being a stand-in for RVN and pray that, against all odds, it works.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i love you antohan

 

[spinoza]

Whatever the answer, it is all a test of Diego's mettle. One thing I believe good strikers have in common is the belief that no matter what, no matter how many matches they have gone without a sniff of goal, the goals are there and will flow. Lets hope Diego has that.

I personally believe that Diego will get his goals, but it will be a while yet unless he gets a run of a few full matches. His workrate ensures that.

Diego actually offers Sir Alex the option of yet another system to experiment with (oh NO! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> ). I'd like to see how he would do in a 4-3-3, playing behind and to one side of the front pair. He's got the pace to burst from midfield and the crossing ability to get the ball in from a wide position. And damn, can the boy shoot from range!

However, in a 4-4-2, he's got to learn to be a winger and run with the ball. Or pick up Ole's split second decision making.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>What might be more damaging to his confidence was Ruud's post match interview, when he said that Keane told him to take it because they needed to be sure.

Do they not have tact in Holland. Some things might be better left out of national interviews!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I didn't like that either, he could have kept it to himself!

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by Sharkey:
<strong>

i love you antohan </strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you a bird? I hope so...

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by spinoza:
<strong>Diego actually offers Sir Alex the option of yet another system to experiment with (oh NO! <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> ). I'd like to see how he would do in a 4-3-3, playing behind and to one side of the front pair. He's got the pace to burst from midfield and the crossing ability to get the ball in from a wide position. And damn, can the boy shoot from range!

However, in a 4-4-2, he's got to learn to be a winger and run with the ball. Or pick up Ole's split second decision making.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes yes yes, exactly. Who is our link-up player today? We used to have King Eric, then we had Teddy when needing that kind of approach. Who does that today?

Go back to January. SAF was fiddling with 4-5-1, Veron clearly insisting on running the game from deep in the midfield and Scholes (at least then) oddly not adjusting to it.

Forlan has the skill to turn into an excellent link-up man but still raw. Di Canio could do it for 1-2 years with Forlan as his understudy.

It makes sense but it just didn't work out and now the pressure is on him. Clearly you can't give him a link-up role yet, he has to grow into it. So you are left with him playing instead of RVN and OGS (a drop in standards, inevitably) or settling him with a less risky role he can immediately perform at on the wings.

It was a great long term plan which unfortunately turned into one demanding immediate results in a system different from the one the plan was based on. Lay off him!

 

[ryansgirl]

Taking us back to the topic rather than puerile meanderings away from it .....

Professional football is not the place for 'Oh, let`s give Diego the chance to take the penalty as it will buck up his confidence, etc, etc'. Keano knows Ruud will convert penalty shots into goals and so wanted to ensure the route of the opponents was a fact.

It`s as simple as that. Professional football is not about applying confidence boosting therapy to new strikers who need a goal - it is about winning and doing that in the best way.

End of story. <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />