Fair enough man, I don't know how you can say that but fair enough for stating your view.
Gio/Theon VS Cal - All time 3 yr peak - Auction Draft
- Thread starter Annahnomoss
- Start date
Fair enough man, I don't know how you can say that but fair enough for stating your view.
What I'm unconvinced about is how Schweinsteiger fares as a holding midfielder at this rarefied level. I value his all-roundedness and he's a sound fit into this team in that respect. But he simply is not in the mould of a Rijkaard, Desailly, Makelele or Mauro Silva. When you're up against Zico - an agile, mobile dribbling #10 who was scoring a goal a game at his peak (188 in 198 games) - you really want a thoroughbred DM of the top calibre to try and do a job on him. Especially when Schweinsteiger is already stretched carrying out the overwhelming bulk of defensive work for the players in front of him. Zico will cause problems and will expose the back line. That inevitably creates space for Ronaldo who is the best striker of all time when he's got space to hit.
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Offensively Pele will be able to work well with Cristiano and I always said I preferred the winger version of Messi for the teams sake.
Defensively there is no chance in hell that Pele and Cristiano will be even bothered with trying to defend in a high pressing system. I am not sure on how to decide for which team to vote for, on one hand we have a team that is playing a tactic that doesn't allow any passengers - but it has two.
On the other hand Gio/Theon doesn't have quite the same benefit of having teammates and players who are comfortable playing in the same system. Player for player I prefer Gio/Theon especially considering the defense where I think they have a significant edge.
Personally I rate the Barcelona midfield trio as the best midfield trio in the history of the sport. Schweinsteiger is no way better than Busquets considering it was so much down to the practice hours Xaviesta and Busquets had together as well as his specialized abilities in one touch play that let him shine. Schweinsteiger is still the second best option for the role.
Really tough game to vote in.
Defensively there is no chance in hell that Pele and Cristiano will be even bothered with trying to defend in a high pressing system. I am not sure on how to decide for which team to vote for, on one hand we have a team that is playing a tactic that doesn't allow any passengers - but it has two.
On the other hand Gio/Theon doesn't have quite the same benefit of having teammates and players who are comfortable playing in the same system. Player for player I prefer Gio/Theon especially considering the defense where I think they have a significant edge.
Personally I rate the Barcelona midfield trio as the best midfield trio in the history of the sport. Schweinsteiger is no way better than Busquets considering it was so much down to the practice hours Xaviesta and Busquets had together as well as his specialized abilities in one touch play that let him shine. Schweinsteiger is still the second best option for the role.
Really tough game to vote in.
Yes, I have seen both play, surely a lot more than you have since I was around when Zico was in his pomp at Flamengo.
The issue wouldn't be a lack of desire, you are completely overlooking how that side completely knackered their rivals. Neither Zico nor Best ever played against anything like it, and I'd argue Cal? Should be delighted if they run themselves into the ground chasing shadows.
Aye, they're possibly the best midfield to actually play together in real life - wouldn't disagree with that as I'm a big fan of that Barca side.
That being said - Desailly/Matthaus/Zico is a better midfield. No ifs or buts about it, I think it's quite clear cut.
Of course those three never played together, but man for man I just can't see a case for the Spanish duo + Schweinsteiger being better. Matthaus is the best and most complete midfielder to ever lace up a pair of football boots and both him and Zico have realistic shouts at being amongst the top 10-15 players of all time.
And as mentioned in the OP, Desailly was the gold standard for the physical defensive midfield role in the 1990s and the highest ranked midfielder in Europe in the '94 '95 and '96 Ballon d'Or.
IIRC Cal? does have Makelele but he is rightly not playing him. The point with that side wasn't individual defensive ability but defending through simply not letting you get any of the ball.
Not sure I entirely agree re: Pelé. I think he would relish the contest with Beckenbauer. He was no Di Stefano, but not Maradona either. He would certainly not 100% adhere but would do a decent enough job.
Cristiano I agree, it's not really in his nature at all. The question is how much of a problem that is when his counterpart most of the time is Vogts. It would be far worse if he were on the right.
This I agree with. Overall there's no chinks at all in your side and it's very coherent from back to front. I'd love to watch them. I just think that for all the talk of "x or y doesn't fit" (Pique isn't exactly rapid) there are significant upgrades that make Cal an even more devastating proposition than the most unplayable side I've seen.
Hm. There are upgrades, no doubt. Significant - in this context - ones, though...
Maldini is undoubtedly an immense upgrade. No argument there, obviously.
Pelé + Messi means the front trio as such is an upgrade too - but C. Ronaldo doesn't add anything significant for me. I don't think he's an ideal fit in that role at all, and I certainly don't agree with his manager's general assessment of him. For me he simply is not "possibly the greatest player ever". Messi is - but not him.
Schweinsteiger is not a significant upgrade on Biscuits - one might even argue that he isn't an upgrade at all. If you want your midfield trio to play like Pep's Barca (and that is obviously the idea here), there aren't many players around who would actually be an upgrade on Biscuits - and Schweinsteiger is not one of 'em. The main argument seems to be that Cal's team will out-possess the opposition, Barca style, thus making up for any difference in pure quality both in midfield and defence. Well - if so, Schweinsteiger is yet again no upgrade on Biscuits: The original, historical "keep-it-ticking", one-touch passer is better than his fantasy counterpart. That's no good in a draft context - where the opponent sports a Desailly-Matthäus-Zico combo which is both very plausible balance wise, and of unquestionable individual quality.
Rio and Vidic is a proven partnership but one that excelled in a system which is radically different from the one they're asked to master here (a counterpoint to the "proven" argument which is the ONLY thing they've got on Beckenbauer/Kohler).
Schmeichel is on a completely different level from Valdes - obviously. But he isn't a keeper who seems a natural fit in the actual system (similar to the criticism which can be directed at Vidic/Rio).
Maldini is undoubtedly an immense upgrade. No argument there, obviously.
Pelé + Messi means the front trio as such is an upgrade too - but C. Ronaldo doesn't add anything significant for me. I don't think he's an ideal fit in that role at all, and I certainly don't agree with his manager's general assessment of him. For me he simply is not "possibly the greatest player ever". Messi is - but not him.
Schweinsteiger is not a significant upgrade on Biscuits - one might even argue that he isn't an upgrade at all. If you want your midfield trio to play like Pep's Barca (and that is obviously the idea here), there aren't many players around who would actually be an upgrade on Biscuits - and Schweinsteiger is not one of 'em. The main argument seems to be that Cal's team will out-possess the opposition, Barca style, thus making up for any difference in pure quality both in midfield and defence. Well - if so, Schweinsteiger is yet again no upgrade on Biscuits: The original, historical "keep-it-ticking", one-touch passer is better than his fantasy counterpart. That's no good in a draft context - where the opponent sports a Desailly-Matthäus-Zico combo which is both very plausible balance wise, and of unquestionable individual quality.
Rio and Vidic is a proven partnership but one that excelled in a system which is radically different from the one they're asked to master here (a counterpoint to the "proven" argument which is the ONLY thing they've got on Beckenbauer/Kohler).
Schmeichel is on a completely different level from Valdes - obviously. But he isn't a keeper who seems a natural fit in the actual system (similar to the criticism which can be directed at Vidic/Rio).
Two brilliantly picked teams,but i do see Carlos and Alves as defensive liability,good at supporting offensively.Do Cal have Lahm in his team?if so he could've started him instead of Alves.
This is really close one and an difficult decision to choose,with saying that I'm slightly in favor of Cal due to the combination of players that does the trick,Xavi/Iniesta/Messi,Rio/Vidic/Ronoldo, these set of 3's played as a team on their peak who could complement each other well.
This is really close one and an difficult decision to choose,with saying that I'm slightly in favor of Cal due to the combination of players that does the trick,Xavi/Iniesta/Messi,Rio/Vidic/Ronoldo, these set of 3's played as a team on their peak who could complement each other well.
If I vote, it will be in favor of Theon. Cal? has the "OMG WTF" front 3, but I can't for the life of me see Ronnie and Messi being successful in the same side. Playing Messi on the right is sacrilege too IMO. He became a GOAT when he moved central (unless I remember wrong).
Theon on the other hand has the superior back line (other than Maldini v Carlos, and Carlos brings his own special skills) and the bettere midfield. I question Best and Ronnie in the same vein as I do Messi/C Ronaldo, but I think that might actually work for Theon as they try to upstage each other. Ronaldinho vs Alves will be an absolute bloodbath, as will Ronaldo vs Vidic/Ferdi (as much as I love both of them).
Cal? has put together a monster too - it just boils down to personal preference.
Theon on the other hand has the superior back line (other than Maldini v Carlos, and Carlos brings his own special skills) and the bettere midfield. I question Best and Ronnie in the same vein as I do Messi/C Ronaldo, but I think that might actually work for Theon as they try to upstage each other. Ronaldinho vs Alves will be an absolute bloodbath, as will Ronaldo vs Vidic/Ferdi (as much as I love both of them).
Cal? has put together a monster too - it just boils down to personal preference.
Cristaino provides a bigger aerial threat than most player ever, and against a rather short defence, that could make a huge difference in the end. It's quite obvious that he'd easily outjump Vogts. Also the current version of Cristiano we see every week mostly has teams putting 2 players on him, obviously that doesn't work here, as that'd leave Pele and Messi that much space to do their thing.
@Cal? why not bring in Lahm for Alves?
I was hoping Alves and Messi's link up down the right will be able to create more against Roberto Carlos, also I think Alves is better at crosses and that will give Cristiano chance after chance to score a header.
Ability in the air isn't just about height. It's more importantly about leap and spring, hence why relative short-arses like Tim Cahill and Henrik Larsson were fantastic in the air. And from a defensive perspective, it's very much about your man-marking ability. Most free headers scored aren't because someone's taller, it's because the defender has let the attacker slip and given him some space. That's where Berti Vogts absolutely excels in terms of both leap and in sticking rigidly to his man. Vogts is actually a very good fit here up against Cristiano. We know how well he snuffed out Cruyff in the 1974 final and we know he's brilliant in closing out that channel between centre-half and right-back, the very space Cristiano likes to hit. He also has that proven World Cup-winning partnership with Beckenbauer to gel the whole thing up even further.
Last time Ronaldo faced Rio:
Of cos I'm not saying it's just about height, but the combination of height and a higher leap than most NBA players make Cristiano Ronaldo probably the best header of the ball ever in the sport.
I actually think Ronaldo's aerial threat is his biggest asset today. He's long shots, free kicks, dribbling - all of these seem to lost a bit of their level with RM's Ronaldo yet he's jumping and heading keeps getting better.
Moreover, Ronaldo massively improved he's movement in the box(which was already brilliant). He knows his superiority above most defenders in height and jump, so he usually looks to be kept alone with someone in the box for a 1v1 aerial situation. Than, all the passer needs to do is cross high to him and it's very hard to stop.
Dani Alves looked a bit weird to me at first, but with Messi cutting inside and Ronaldo+Pele's inside movement, Alves is one of the perfect crossers possible from that role. I'd argue that Alves will be one of the most influential players on the pitch!
On the other side of course, you can't ignore Ronaldinho being kept there alone with Alves caught forward, that's why I'd prefer to see a midfield more adjusted to it from Cal?, with Makalele-Xavi-Zidane and drop the Barca-tiki-taka here, where it doesn't belong imo. Barca were terrified of counters, especially in their right wing, and Ronaldinho-Ronaldo is not a pair you want to leave there and take that risk.
Honestly, this game is a gamble. In these formations I see a goal galore any match they'd meet and with 3-4 goals easily scored at each game, with a matter of a bit of luck and form on the day to decide the winner, which could go either way. If I need to look at it in a 10 matches way, I'd give the small edge to Cal? for the X-factor of the supremacy of Pele-Messi who are just a bit more likely to be deadly when needed in a top match. Gio/Theon team is incredibly good and equally deserves the win here, and built a well deserved-final team, so I hope they still get a chance.
Moreover, Ronaldo massively improved he's movement in the box(which was already brilliant). He knows his superiority above most defenders in height and jump, so he usually looks to be kept alone with someone in the box for a 1v1 aerial situation. Than, all the passer needs to do is cross high to him and it's very hard to stop.
Dani Alves looked a bit weird to me at first, but with Messi cutting inside and Ronaldo+Pele's inside movement, Alves is one of the perfect crossers possible from that role. I'd argue that Alves will be one of the most influential players on the pitch!
On the other side of course, you can't ignore Ronaldinho being kept there alone with Alves caught forward, that's why I'd prefer to see a midfield more adjusted to it from Cal?, with Makalele-Xavi-Zidane and drop the Barca-tiki-taka here, where it doesn't belong imo. Barca were terrified of counters, especially in their right wing, and Ronaldinho-Ronaldo is not a pair you want to leave there and take that risk.
Honestly, this game is a gamble. In these formations I see a goal galore any match they'd meet and with 3-4 goals easily scored at each game, with a matter of a bit of luck and form on the day to decide the winner, which could go either way. If I need to look at it in a 10 matches way, I'd give the small edge to Cal? for the X-factor of the supremacy of Pele-Messi who are just a bit more likely to be deadly when needed in a top match. Gio/Theon team is incredibly good and equally deserves the win here, and built a well deserved-final team, so I hope they still get a chance.
More than leap it is about intelligence, manipulating that little space, timing the runs and accurate finishing on all types of crosses. Ronaldo has it all. People sometimes focus too much on leap or height but there are so many absolutely clinical strikers who thrived of crosses who weren't tall nor had a leap to compensate for it. Larsson, van Nistelrooy and Muller are good examples of people who were absolute world class in that regard.
Ronaldo is quite unique in the way he almost always finds a way to attack the ball with pace rather than waiting for it.
Ronaldo is quite unique in the way he almost always finds a way to attack the ball with pace rather than waiting for it.
Virtually every offensive player on the pitch would have two or three defenders on them - it's absolutely no different for the likes of Ronaldinho who would often be double marked, instantly closed down or fouled off the ball.
Zico in his pomp was almost unstoppable - a quick, mobile dribbler who could split defences with his passing and was scoring a goal every game at his peak. The difference between Zico and any of your attackers is marginal in terms of ability - absolutely marginal.
The much more significant difference in terms of Zico and someone like Cristiano in this game is that Zico has quite clearly a far easier ride. I rate Bastian extremely highly and over the past decade there have been very few better midfielder all rounders. But when it comes to playing in defensive midfield and marking one of the best footballers to ever play the game then he's quite clearly below the requisite standard.
Zico will have a far easier time against Schweinsteiger than Cristiano will against Vogts. Absolutely no doubt about that - And that's coming from a Schweinsteiger fan.
And probably the most underrated aspect of this game is how you deal with a rampaging Lothar Matthaus. He is the best midfielder on the park, regularly scored 1 in 2 for Munich/Inter and is a couple of levels above anyone Xavi and Iniesta have ever faced.
Matthaus will over-run and surge past his direct counterpart Iniesta. That's a very significant mismatch and again stretches Schweinsteiger defensively, who already has his hands tied in knots getting to grips with Zico.
One can argue Matthaus at his best was one of the best ever, but let's not forget Xaviesta dominated against everyone they've come up against during those years when they were widely praised as the bestest side ever ever, their partnership literally won everything there is to win for Spain & Barca.
I still think that the fact Zico will end up further up the field than most CMs, leaves Desailly and Matthaus very exposed against Schweiny, Xavi & Iniesta, before even considering Messi can play much tighter in midfield to help dominate possession whilst Alves bombs forward to supply crosses for Pele and Ronaldo.
Maldini is perhaps one of the only defenders ever who can be left 1 on 1 with Best and not come out too badly. That leaves Cristiano to be able to not help defending but concentrate on linking up with Pele.
Two match-defining weaknesses in Cal's otherwise brilliant team. First, how good are they going to be off the ball?
Second, is the defence against that attack. Best and Maldini will slug it out - Best will get the better of him at times, Maldini at other times. Important point is he'll be fully occupied out on the left flank and will offer little central support. Ronaldinho will roast Alves - we have shown a number of real, actual examples of this. Ronaldo will get the better of Ferdinand. Again we have shown real examples of this and we also know how devastating he was against Nesta, Thuram, Cannavaro and other great defenders. He will also cause some major problems to Vidic who will be a little uncomfortable with a high line but crucially has form for struggling with the sheer pace of Torres and Eto'o. Amplify that up to the GOAT levels Ronaldo performed at and we've got a major issue on our hands. All of these defensive issues could be lessened with a strong midfield support (someone like Desailly or Matthaus for instance
) but in the absence of that we have a crucial and match-defining advantage.
Schweinsteiger has an unbelievable shift on his hands to plug the gaps when we are countering. The front three won't offer much help. Nor will Xavi and Iniesta, who will work back in, but without much in the way of serious defensive resilience. Part of Barcelona's blueprint and success was based around the high pressing which will be absent here.Pep Guardiola said:
Second, is the defence against that attack. Best and Maldini will slug it out - Best will get the better of him at times, Maldini at other times. Important point is he'll be fully occupied out on the left flank and will offer little central support. Ronaldinho will roast Alves - we have shown a number of real, actual examples of this. Ronaldo will get the better of Ferdinand. Again we have shown real examples of this and we also know how devastating he was against Nesta, Thuram, Cannavaro and other great defenders. He will also cause some major problems to Vidic who will be a little uncomfortable with a high line but crucially has form for struggling with the sheer pace of Torres and Eto'o. Amplify that up to the GOAT levels Ronaldo performed at and we've got a major issue on our hands. All of these defensive issues could be lessened with a strong midfield support (someone like Desailly or Matthaus for instance
) but in the absence of that we have a crucial and match-defining advantage.Surely that isn't even a debate though?
Matthaus is widely regarded as the best midfielder to ever lace up a pair of football boots - absolutely complete as a footballer, virtually unmatched in the way that he combines his defensive and offensive play and ultimately world class in both phases of the game. The only other footballer I can think of who was as capable offensively and defensively is Franz Beckenbauer.
You combine Matthaus' supreme work rate, physicality and mentality with his technical ability and his ranking in the pantheon of greats is undisputed - He's the best midfielder on the park he by a distance. Can you think of any other player capable of goals like this whilst offering so much off the ball?
Funny way of putting things, as you said Barca's high pressing was a key part of the tactics, yet somehow Xavi & Iniesta, the key midfielders of that same Barca side are not upto the job there did for years?Two match-defining weaknesses in Cal's otherwise brilliant team. First, how good are they going to be off the ball?
Schweinsteiger has an unbelievable shift on his hands to plug the gaps when we are countering. The front three won't offer much help. Nor will Xavi and Iniesta, who will work back in, but without much in the way of serious defensive resilience. Part of Barcelona's blueprint and success was based around the high pressing which will be absent here.
Second, is the defence against that attack. Best and Maldini will slug it out - Best will get the better of him at times, Maldini at other times. Important point is he'll be fully occupied out on the left flank and will offer little central support. Ronaldinho will roast Alves - we have shown a number of real, actual examples of this. Ronaldo will get the better of Ferdinand. Again we have shown real examples of this and we also know how devastating he was against Nesta, Thuram, Cannavaro and other great defenders. He will also cause some major problems to Vidic who will be a little uncomfortable with a high line but crucially has form for struggling with the sheer pace of Torres and Eto'o. Amplify that up to the GOAT levels Ronaldo performed at and we've got a major issue on our hands. All of these defensive issues could be lessened with a strong midfield support (someone like Desailly or Matthaus for instance
Also Messi & Alves will give Roberto Carlos nightmares in this game, and like my post earlier, Pele had the beating of Beckenbauer the same way Ronaldo dominated against Rio.
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Like I said, one of the best, whether he was the best is up for debate, at another time...Surely that isn't even a debate though?
Matthaus is widely regarded as the best midfielder to ever lace up a pair of football boots - absolutely complete as a footballer, virtually unmatched in the way that he combines his defensive and offensive play and ultimately world class in both phases of the game. The only other footballer I can think of who was as capable offensively and defensively is Franz Beckenbauer.
You combine Matthaus' supreme work rate, physicality and mentality with his technical ability and his ranking in the pantheon of greats is undisputed - He's the best midfielder on the park he by a distance. Can you think of any other player capable of goals like this whilst offering so much off the ball?
kudos to Cal? , from one of the worst teams in the draft to one of the best if not the best.
gio and theon have a brilliant team(altough i liked it more with Romario) but in this game i can see only one winner and its cal. When you have Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Best and Zico you want the ball and against cal you wont see it for a loooong periods and with all 4 not doing much in defence its a suicide mission. I agree with t/g that Zico and Best would contribute unlike Dinho but its not enough in my opinion.
gio and theon have a brilliant team(altough i liked it more with Romario) but in this game i can see only one winner and its cal. When you have Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Best and Zico you want the ball and against cal you wont see it for a loooong periods and with all 4 not doing much in defence its a suicide mission. I agree with t/g that Zico and Best would contribute unlike Dinho but its not enough in my opinion.
Fair enough mate but I don't agree with this at all - Firstly in terms of defensive ability and work rate it's not even particularly close between the two sides. Desailly and Matthaus offer significantly more defensively than anyone in Cal's midfield, a ball winning work horse is effectively what Desailly was and in that role there were none better throughout the 1990's. Then the team is also protected by a significantly better defence.
Kohler for instance is just a superior Vidic without the same vulnerabilities - vulnerabilities which are clearly exposed here, Vidic has never suited a high line and he's up against a lightening quick, prime Ronaldo.
Ultimately the reason I disagree with you is that IMO the weaker defense also has weaker protection from midfield - If one of the teams is vulnerable defensively then it's clearly Cal's.
The second point which needs to be stated is the role of this man:
One of the most fundamental reasons that Barcelona monopolised the ball is that they pressed the opposition when they were out of possession - 9 times out of 10 the opposition were not good enough ball players to play their way around it and so possession gets turned over.
It should go without saying that Barca's ability to dominate the ball against their real life opposition does not translate to being able to dominate the ball against a fantasy draft side stacked with players far, far superior to their counterparts in the modern game.
But in particuar take Beckenbauer - There is literally no way that someone like Beckenbauer is going to get pressured into losing the ball because some of the opposition attackers try and press him. It's just not happening.
He also has previous form against such a tactic - Against Cruyff's Total Footballing Dutch side in the '74 World Cup.
HOW FRANZ BECKENBAUER DECIDED THE 1974 WORLD CUP FINAL - DEALING WITH DUTCH PRESSING
Pound for pound – or in this case: match for match – Rinus Michel’s Dutch team was the best international team of its era. Without the ball they boldly refused to retreat into their own half, preferring to play a high pressing game. They hassled their opponents deep in their own half with the Dutch forwards hunting the ball and refusing to allow the opposition time and space to coordinate their build-up. This was even more marked immediately after the Dutch lost possession as they endeavoured to get the ball back as rapidly as possible.
This often resulted in a repetitive pattern of events: the Dutch attack, come close to the goal, lose the ball, regain it almost immediatly, attack, come close to the goal, lose the ball, regain it, attack… you get the picture. In their best matches they laid siege to their opponents’ goal and scored through the sheer quantity of chances created, while simultaneously starving opponents of possession and chances of their own. It was an extremely dominant style of football and it seemed almost certain to win them the World Cup.
And Franz Beckenbauer: a brilliant defender, able to proactively read game situations like few of his peers and reactively win the ball back from even the best forwards when required. It’s his capabilities with the ball that made him so important in this Final. The West German captain was a very elegant player in possession boasting the technique of a playmaker and the type of rare spatial awareness we see today in modern midfielders like Xavi, Pirlo or Busquets.
This distinct skill set made Beckenbauer a player who was nearly impossible to press effectively. Of course opponents could run at him when he was in possession, but he would often turn that situation around by exploiting the space they had just vacated with his forward surges or astute passes.
And Beckenbauer’s special talent in this respect was a key factor in that 1974 World Cup Final. The Dutch tried and failed to press him effectively and ultimately gave up on their forlorn attempts to hinder his influence. Whether short or long, Beckenbauer repeatedly played the right pass under pressure and almost always found the pockets of space that enabled his teammates to get behind the first wave of Dutch pressing and build their own attacks.
So the Dutch were forced to give up on their own game plan in order to retreat and defend in a more conservative manner when he had possession of the ball.
i agree with you on the first one, your midfield is better defensively but the thing is that team defends through the large spells of possession and high pressure. Possession thing is sorted while on high pressure i have my doubts about Ronaldo and im not sure how does Pele fit in but its pretty much irrelevant as i cant see your team win in this way. The only way to win against this team is to defend as a team and hit them with quick counter-attacks, and while your team is perfectly capable of latter one in my opinion they arent of the first one. Looks like you want to try "play" against them and that wont work.
Agree and on the second one actually, Vidic is a suspect in this system and i can see Ronaldo escaping him few times and would probably score in the game but it wont be enough, credit to cal as he actually has the perfect gk(defending wise) for his team, Schmeichel is one of the best ever in 1v1 situations.
Aye but that's what I was referring to in the second part of my post - they aren't going to dominate possession.
Being able to hold possession against the midfields of the past few years isn't the same as doing it against a team stacked with the best players the game has seen. It doesn't translate over - that's what I was getting at with the Beckenbauer part, they aren't going to pressure him into losing the ball. There is no chance of that happening.
Same with Matthaus, Zico or Ronaldinho. Those players have never showed any vulnerabilities to being pressed - the latter two would just dribble around players who pressed them.
Wow. What a team. At first seeing theons team id say wtf, this is cheating. Until i saw cal's. Close, but messi and ronaldo against carlos...
Very close
Very close
It's Cal though, he permanently guards the Ronaldo corner in Messi-Ronaldo threads. I'm not even sure if he would have opted for Alves over Lahm to reinstate that fantastic flank or just because he has wet dreams over Alves crossing for Ronaldo.I'd agree, I spent ages trying to think of a realistic all-time fantasy upgrade and couldn't. I'd say Busquets is better for the intention here which is starving of possession, Schweini better when it's lost, so a case of 60-40 (which Busquets instead would help make 70-30 and therein lies the bigger advantage).
But then, whenever I insist on playing Abidal because he knows the system inside out I get told he isn't final-worthy. It's a fantasy conundrum: defenders proven in the system aren't all that impressive (the possession defended, not them) and the more impressive defenders didn't play it.
Can Rio-Vidic play a high line? Sure, it's not like United at home didn't usually sport one.
First thing that struck me was both teams would be better off swapping keepers.
there is no way that cal wont dominate the possession in this game, yes Beckenbauer is brilliant with ball in his feet and you cant pressure him but they dont need to, they can leave Beckenbauer to play his game in deep positions and pressure the others(Carlos, Desailly, Vogts). When your ball gets to the attacking players you have 3 spenders of the ball in Ronaldo, Best and Dinho while cal has Messi, Pele and Iniesta who are perfectly fine in keep the ball game, the only true spender in that team is Ronaldo but dont think he will be involved much in the build-up, specially as Vogts is perfectly capable of keeping him quiet.
As i said earlier, you are trying to play against that team and in my opinion you dont stand a chance against this team even though you have some brilliant players. Its hard to vote against Zico and its hard to vote for the team you didnt rate for 90% of the tournament but feck it, it has to be done.
Just read through the thread, interesting that Gio left out any 3 year peak for Kohler, is it a case of not finding a particular 3yr that defined his career?
Also, did Ronaldinho even have 3yrs at the top of the game? Obviously 05-06 was his absolute peak, and 04-05 they won La Liga, but either side of those 2 seasons he spent half the time injured in 03-04, and in 06-07 he kind of stuttered...
Also, did Ronaldinho even have 3yrs at the top of the game? Obviously 05-06 was his absolute peak, and 04-05 they won La Liga, but either side of those 2 seasons he spent half the time injured in 03-04, and in 06-07 he kind of stuttered...
I've always wondered how penalties would work in these drafts, a "golden vote" or an extension of a few hours?
We used the golden vote before. It was crap (I lost a final to one after a 22-22 or so, too much power, and it was even worse that I already knew what he would go for despite the various considerate preliminary considerations).
You basically choose 5 shooters and RLC, same for your keeper, and PM them. If you shoot R and keeper went L it's a miss.
Quite interesting that neither Gio or Theon has voted...
I see, so it's literally a penalty shootout, no addition points if you somehow have Goycochea (guess he's the most famous penalty specialist) as your keeper.
Thanks Theon & @Gio , certainly a close game and given me a big dilemma over what to do...Damn thought you were gonna switch your vote
Fair play Cal - Good game
Upgrade the CB pairing or replace Schweiny...