Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[Anustart89]

The offside rule was correct, the rule is offside is offside. 1 meter or a hair offside is still offside. That is the rule and that needs to be followed. It might not be what people like but it is fair. Changing it mid season wouldnt be fair.

I thought Maguire would get a red card. Kicking someone like that when the ball was out of play was really really stupid of Maguire. I think the var made a mistake but im not complaining about it.

The corner goal was the biggest talking point for me. Williams was pushed down but Fred pushed the Chelsea player into Williams. However did Fred really push that hard so that the Chelsea player couldnt stop and had to push over Williams? I guess that is mostly the interpretation of the people watching it. Manchester United fans will obviously claim it was a push but if a Manchester United goal was ruled out of because of something like that those same fans would be furious.

Agree in general. Thought that Maguire should've been off. Offside was obvious and even with 10cm leeway he still would've been off so don't see the complaints. If the linesman had done his job properly and raised his flag everyone would've said "great spot" and moved on, but because he made an error and VAR corrected it it's the end of football.

Regarding the situation with the pushes, Fred nudges Azpilicueta and he cushions the push against Williams, but then after he's regained balance he obviously pushes Williams with two hands in the back which prevents him from jumping and clearing the ball. Azpilicueta is not impeded in any sense because he actually manages to jump and flick the ball on to Zouma and make the assist. So he's pushing the defending player to prevent him from playing the ball, which allows him to get the ball and assist a goal.

 

[always_hoping]

For one night only I got to feel what it's like to be a Liverpool supporter and get all VAR decisions in your favour.

I feel dirty and I think I'll need an extra long shower before bed tonight.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I don't like VAR, at all. It ruins the rhythm and flow of the game and wrecks the atmosphere in stadiums.

It benefited Utd tonight, obviously, but I loathe VAR.

1 ref, 2 linesmen, and a ref behind each goal is fine.

 

[Shane88]

I don't know the stats but I feel like we've been one of the biggest beneficiaries of VAR.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Fred's push wasn't enough to justify that as a foul or affecting the incident, it was nothing but a hustle, too soft to call it a foul. Look at the picture below (image 1), Azpi was still fine standing there after what you called "push" from Fred. There is no reason to blame Fred if Azpi decided to stretch his arm out to bring Williams down (image 2).

Both pushes look soft to me. Williams looked like he milked it a bit (I'd be disappointed if he didn't) but if it was us on the receiving end of that call, we'd be going up the wall about it. I think we got a bit lucky with that one.

 

[Sad Chris]

I thought the push was a 50/50 call. I thought Maguire was a definite red card.
The offside is offside but tough to see for any lino.

Doesn't feel like a great night for VAR.

Maguire decision is clear to us all? How do they decide oh no, its fine.

I don‘t think Maguire deserved a red. He‘s sliding backwards towards the dugout, like a turtle on his shell. Even the look on his face when the Chelsea bench got all wound up was „seriously?“ And they all calmed down immediately. Correct call in my eyes.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Both pushes look soft to me. Williams looked like he milked it a bit (I'd be disappointed if he didn't) but if it was us on the receiving end of that call, we'd be going up the wall about it. I think we got a bit lucky with that one.

You can't call Azpi's push was soft, he clearly stretched his arm out, that's what matter which clearly what the referee pointed out when he made the decision. It doesn't matter whether Williams milked it or no, the referee & VAR called it a foul not because Williams was brought down but because his intention from Azpi to prevent William clearing the ball.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I thought the push was a 50/50 call. I thought Maguire was a definite red card.
The offside is offside but tough to see for any lino.

Doesn't feel like a great night for VAR.

Maguire decision is clear to us all? How do they decide oh no, its fine.

I wouldn’t say Maguire was clear red to me. He didn’t put any force in it, no real malice. I’m kinda sick of games being ruined for reds when it’s not needed. Just like Sons. 2 yellows, no need to ruin the game to create fake drama

 

[11101]

The offside was correct, no questions.

The first goal, all i can think is they decided Fred's push was not strong enough to warrant a foul.

The red card, looking at it again i think its a natural reaction to falling backwards. He kicks out equally with both feet. If it was malicious, he would have only done it with his right leg.

Either way, I'm not going to lose any sleep after all the dodgy calls Chelsea have had against us over the years.

 

[Denis' cuff]

I wouldn’t say Maguire was clear red to me. He didn’t put any force in it, no real malice. I’m kinda sick of games being ruined for reds when it’s not needed. Just like Sons. 2 yellows, no need to ruin the game to create fake drama

in a nutshell

compared to the shit we’ve had to suffer at theirs under Martin Atkinson and others, well, I’ll sleep easy - never mind the Drogba 2 yards offside title clinching goal at OT.

 

[montpelier]

On Maguire, I was thinking the Chelsea bench didn't seem super bothered. Big John Captain Bellend would have carried the ref over and had the red card out of his pocket well before any VAR could happen.

I still don't really buy the self defence idea but against me is that I'm comparing it to Son, which is kinda pointless and it is one of those that probably looks worse each time you see it replayed, if you're already thinking it is a red. Which I do, but didn't on first view, in real time.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

At least Neville is right with the offside. In no way can you introduce a tolerance.

This isn't the offsides that are the problem though... .the ones that are the problem are Pukki's armpits/Firminho's shoulder ones... the ones where the call is so tight and the technology isn't good enough to be 100% certain that it's offside.

You could tell yesterdays was offside within a few seconds of shoving a line at Maguires foot... that should be the tolerance.

 

[Offside]

I actually like the idea of a tolerance for offside. It should be used for clear and obvious like last night. If it's not visible with the naked eye, give the striker the benefit of the doubt. Some of the 1mm offside foreskins that have been given this season are ridiculous.

 

[Kentonio]

Hundreds of fans left in a huge game with 10m still to go. That’s the future of the game unless the PL sort out this nonsense.

 

[cyberman]

Hundreds of fans left in a huge game with 10m still to go. That’s the future of the game unless the PL sort out this nonsense.

Score a legitimate goal then so?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I actually like the idea of a tolerance for offside. It should be used for clear and obvious like last night. If it's not visible with the naked eye, give the striker the benefit of the doubt. Some of the 1mm offside foreskins that have been given this season are ridiculous.

Exactly. You should just be able to tell as soon as the line goes down.... none of this dotted lines/spending 30 seconds to figure it out shit.

Hundreds of fans left in a huge game with 10m still to go. That’s the future of the game unless the PL sort out this nonsense.

I do think it would help if the linesman put his flag up after any goal that has a tight offside in it (even if they think it's onside) - would be a better signal for fans in the stadium at the very least.

 

[Kentonio]

Score a legitimate goal then so?

Oh give me a break. Is football really supposed to be a series of 5 minute intervals where we try and make sure a strikers left bollock wasn't hanging in front of the defender? Or that the coffee lady wasn't distracting the goalkeeper by watching several hours of stadium camera footage?

It's really, really boring and extremely frustrating as a fan. You might have loved yesterday because it was 3 points, but if it had been the other way around you'd be the ones going mental about it today. We had years of abysmal refereeing in the Prem, and now we have abysmal implementation of VAR. The only real question is why the PL are so fecking awful at running a game thats existed for well over a hundred years.

 

[Deleted 112447]

VAR is the best change i'm seen in the game since i've been watching football. There might still be some minor things to work out, but so much of the wrong in football has been eliminated.

 

[cyberman]

Oh give me a break. Is football really supposed to be a series of 5 minute intervals where we try and make sure a strikers left bollock wasn't hanging in front of the defender? Or that the coffee lady wasn't distracting the goalkeeper by watching several hours of stadium camera footage?

It's really, really boring and extremely frustrating as a fan. You might have loved yesterday because it was 3 points, but if it had been the other way around you'd be the ones going mental about it today. We had years of abysmal refereeing in the Prem, and now we have abysmal implementation of VAR. The only real question is why the PL are so fecking awful at running a game thats existed for well over a hundred years.

He was clearly offside? By a good foot at that. This isnt a millimetre argument you can sneakily add this to. Does he have to be 2 foot offside to count? Whay about a yard?!

 

[Kentonio]

He was clearly offside? By a good foot at that. This isnt a millimetre argument you can sneakily add this to. Does he have to be 2 foot offside to count? Whay about a yard?!

If by 'a good foot' you mean literally his good foot, then yes it was off.

Was anyone crying out for this kind of millimeter perfect offside rule before VAR showed up? If that had happened last year, would you have been screaming about how unfair it was that the goal wasn't disallowed? No of course you wouldn't, because the only place we've ever given that much of a feck about precision was in goal line technology, where a ball crossing the line or not actually matters.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

If by 'a good foot' you mean literally his good foot, then yes it was off.

Was anyone crying out for this kind of millimeter perfect offside rule before VAR showed up? If that had happened last year, would you have been screaming about how unfair it was that the goal wasn't disallowed? No of course you wouldn't, because the only place we've ever given that much of a feck about precision was in goal line technology, where a ball crossing the line or not actually matters.

I do agree to be honest. Even though var worked in our favour last night it goes against the spirit of the game in my opinion- you never know if a goal is a goal anymore . My celebrations are more muted now. It’s not really progress in my opinion, & like you say no one would be moaning about lots of these goals chalked off

 

[robinamicrowave]

I've changed my opinion on VAR three times in the last year.

At first I really liked it because it felt like we were finally getting more accurate decisions. Then the Premier League's implementation of it caused so many problems and inconsistencies that it was just as frustrating as what we had before. Then I went back to liking it again because they made a few tweaks that seemed to make a big difference and it was better than what we had before. But now I'm back to disliking it again because they're still insisting on using it to completely re-referee games instead of just assisting the man in black who's out there making the decisions.

They've completely messed it up.

 

[crossy1686]

I do agree to be honest. Even though var worked in our favour last night it goes against the spirit of the game in my opinion- you never know if a goal is a goal anymore . My celebrations are more muted now. It’s not really progress in my opinion, & like you say no one would be moaning about lots of these goals chalked off

He was offside so it's the correct decision, doesn't matter by how much, if he's off then he's off and the correct decision has to be made accordingly.

This seems to be the main gripe from people regarding VAR. You can still celebrate as vigorously as you want, you're choosing to mute your own celebrations because you don't want to look like a fool, why do you care so much? Just enjoy it and it if gets given then it's all the sweeter.

For me, the devastation of the opposition scoring followed up by the jubilation of it being disallowed is worth way more than being worried about muting my celebration, just in case.

 

[cyberman]

If by 'a good foot' you mean literally his good foot, then yes it was off.

Was anyone crying out for this kind of millimeter perfect offside rule before VAR showed up? If that had happened last year, would you have been screaming about how unfair it was that the goal wasn't disallowed? No of course you wouldn't, because the only place we've ever given that much of a feck about precision was in goal line technology, where a ball crossing the line or not actually matters.

Forwards were given offside despite being clearly on for decades. Thats the other aspect of this thats often ignored. Those calls are gone now. Good runs are rewarded.
And if thats not clearly offside then what is? That would even be offside in the tolerance nonsense being pushed forward. In no iteration of the offside rule would that never be given as on.

 

[Kentonio]

This seems to be the main gripe from people regarding VAR. You can still celebrate as vigorously as you want, you're choosing to mute your own celebrations because you don't want to look like a fool, why do you care so much? Just enjoy it and it if gets given then it's all the sweeter.

So you're happy to celebrate wildly and then a few minutes later find out that it was for nothing and that emotional release was a complete waste of time? And yet when another goal goes in 5 minutes later you're going to celebrate just as wildly?

This stuff is going to have a cumulative effect on excitement. I'm actually in favour of VAR in principle and using it to rule out goals that are wildly unfair is ok with me, but this minute analysis of every goal is just nonsense.

 

[Vault Dweller]

3/3 correct calls for me.

 

[Kentonio]

Forwards were given offside despite being clearly on for decades. Thats the other aspect of this thats often ignored. Those calls are gone now. Good runs are rewarded.
And if thats not clearly offside then what is? That would even be offside in the tolerance nonsense being pushed forward. In no iteration of the offside rule would that never be given as on.

Ah give over, linesman used to look at bodies not whether a toenail was over. Now we're seeing offside calls over armpits and elbows and such bullshit.

 

[El Zoido]

If by 'a good foot' you mean literally his good foot, then yes it was off.

Was anyone crying out for this kind of millimeter perfect offside rule before VAR showed up? If that had happened last year, would you have been screaming about how unfair it was that the goal wasn't disallowed? No of course you wouldn't, because the only place we've ever given that much of a feck about precision was in goal line technology, where a ball crossing the line or not actually matters.

In a pre-VAR world this would have been given and I’d have been fuming. This is why VAR is good, because he’s clearly offside. This isn’t one of those toenail decisions where it looks level, he’s simply offside. This is where we should be championing VAR.

 

[crossy1686]

So you're happy to celebrate wildly and then a few minutes later find out that it was for nothing and that emotional release was a complete waste of time? And yet when another goal goes in 5 minutes later you're going to celebrate just as wildly?

This stuff is going to have a cumulative effect on excitement. I'm actually in favour of VAR in principle and using it to rule out goals that are wildly unfair is ok with me, but this minute analysis of every goal is just nonsense.

Yeah? I enjoy it when we score goals. If for some reason the goal is ruled out due to something that happened in the build up then I accept it. I'd rather the decisions be correct than wrong so I'm allowed to celebrate without fear of looking daft.

I like VAR but the PL have not implemented it well this season so I can understand people's frustrations. Most of it will be ironed out in time though.

I think the anti-VAR movement is on par with the anti-5G, anti-steam train, anti-cloud movements. Just a bunch of middle-aged men angry about change. Once it becomes familiar, in a season or two, most of these complaints will disappear.

 

[Kentonio]

Yeah? I enjoy it when we score goals. If for some reason the goal is ruled out due to something that happened in the build up then I accept it. I'd rather the decisions be correct than wrong so I'm allowed to celebrate without fear of looking daft.

It's nothing to do with looking daft, its about being emotionally invested in a game and having that endlessly frustrated.

I like VAR but the PL have not implemented it well this season so I can understand people's frustrations. Most of it will be ironed out in time though.

I think the anti-VAR movement is on par with the anti-5G, anti-steam train, anti-cloud movements. Just a bunch of middle-aged men angry about change. Once it becomes familiar, in a season or two, most of these complaints will disappear.

I like the principle of VAR too, and I certainly don't want it abolished just because the PL are such a bunch of useless fecktwats that they haven't implemented it properly. But this anger needs to continue to be expressed, because otherwise they'll just do exactly the same thing next year, and the year after.

 

[DAK222]

If by 'a good foot' you mean literally his good foot, then yes it was off.

Was anyone crying out for this kind of millimeter perfect offside rule before VAR showed up? If that had happened last year, would you have been screaming about how unfair it was that the goal wasn't disallowed? No of course you wouldn't, because the only place we've ever given that much of a feck about precision was in goal line technology, where a ball crossing the line or not actually matters.

Well, the discussion without VAR would have been whether or not he's offside at all. But let's say everyone agrees that it's exactly a millimetre offside. Then yes, fans of the team hard done by would be moaning, 100%. If you're a Utd/City/Everton fan, think of this scenario winning Liverpool the league last year. If you're a Liverpool fan, the opposite. We'd be all be moaning.

It's a different question (one I can't believe is still being discussed) whether a millimetre offside should still be considered offside. If the defender gives up a penalty simply because he slid in a minute fraction of a second too late despite clearly going for the ball, this millimetre ends up being important. So yes the millimetre matters. I just hope we eventually get some kind of consistency with VAR. As long as everyone is constrained by the same rules, I can live with the occasional disruption given the high stakes in the PL. It's literally a matter of careers being made/destroyed, people employed by relegated clubs potentially losing their jobs etc.

It all then comes down to agreeing on the accuracy of the technology and whether what it classifies as offside is indeed offside according to the rules. One way to handle this is to change the rules. Let's say that's not happening. Then, either we agree that the tech is sufficiently accurate and go ahead without complaining or just bin the whole thing until we all decide that it's accurate enough. Without this improvement, it doesn't matter how much time we give it. The only thing that'll change is the fans and media will become numb to complaining about it and find something else to focus on.

 

[Vargo Hoat]

The problem is not the VAR technology. The problem, in my opinion, is twofold:
- English football has way too many conservative decision-makers. There is no will to change.
- English refs are Simply. Not. Good. Enough. to handle the high-intensity game and the technology.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Yeah? I enjoy it when we score goals. If for some reason the goal is ruled out due to something that happened in the build up then I accept it. I'd rather the decisions be correct than wrong so I'm allowed to celebrate without fear of looking daft.

I like VAR but the PL have not implemented it well this season so I can understand people's frustrations. Most of it will be ironed out in time though.

I think the anti-VAR movement is on par with the anti-5G, anti-steam train, anti-cloud movements. Just a bunch of middle-aged men angry about change. Once it becomes familiar, in a season or two, most of these complaints will disappear.

Yawn. How boring using the ‘argument’ that those against VAR are just against Change & Middle Aged.

I’m not Middle Aged & I love technology in many aspects of life & change can be a good thing.

VAR isn’t progressive for the game & makes it a worse spectacle to watch

 

[crossy1686]

Yawn. How boring using the ‘argument’ that those against VAR are just against Change & Middle Aged.

I’m not Middle Aged & I love technology in many aspects of life & change can be a good thing.

VAR isn’t progressive for the game & makes it a worse spectacle to watch

Injustice and cheaters winning make the sport far less palatable than having to wait a couple of minutes for a penalty to be correctly given or a goal disallowed for whatever reason.

 

[giorno]

The big issue is still the refusal to use the pitchside monitors

From yesterday's game, both the Maguire potential red and chelsea's first goal were the kind of situations where the ref should watch it on the monitor and then decide, imho. The goal in particular, since it was a case of VAR changing a call on the pitch on a subjective call. The ref should be the one making that call

 

[Mb194dc]

The big issue is still the refusal to use the pitchside monitors

From yesterday's game, both the Maguire potential red and chelsea's first goal were the kind of situations where the ref should watch it on the monitor and then decide, imho. The goal in particular, since it was a case of VAR changing a call on the pitch on a subjective call. The ref should be the one making that call

Exactly this, goal was disallowed against FCB on the weekend. Very similar, though much more obvious foul on a corner.

Referee went to look at it on the monitor, was quick and made the decision.

VAR in the premier league is a joke. It's VR not VAR.

Very skeptical of how and why it's being used. Whole thing is a farce. Especially given the ludicrous inconsistency in how it's used between games.

Time to void the season and start over I think

 

[sullydnl]

I can understand Chelsea fans complaining but not about the offside. We're not talking about one of the millimetre calls. It was a clear offside, one that would have been outside any marginal buffer you'd care to implement. Had that goal been allowed pre-Var we would have been complaining about it, because it shouldn't have stood. That simple.

Any criticism should be focused on Maguire getting away without a red card. Not on goals that should have been disallowed being disallowed.

 

[SilentWitness]

As usual it is not the system that is being questioned but it is the people who are utilising it. VAR would and should work but it isn't under the current format and utilisation. It isn't fair to have the system in place when it is clear that the people who are officiating with it are severely undertrained with the system and the decision making required.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think they got it right. Although the Maguire one is hard. No kick, but he should have been able to hold his leg down more.

 

[Mb194dc]

I can understand Chelsea fans complaining but not about the offside. We're not talking about one of the millimetre calls. It was a clear offside, one that would have been outside any marginal buffer you'd care to implement. Had that goal been allowed pre-Var we would have been complaining about it, because it shouldn't have stood. That simple.

Any criticism should be focused on Maguire getting away without a red card. Not on goals that should have been disallowed being disallowed.

VR shouldn't make the decision, both on the red card and on the Zouma goal.

It should be the referee. If the ref has a look and makes those calls I would accept them.

The premier league are not following the guidelines on how VAR is meant to be used and the VR implementation of it is totally different to VAR everywhere else. Could FIFA/IFAB put a stop to it and sanction the FA/PL/PGMOL?

The premier league is not the same game that is being played everywhere else now.

That is the issue as I see it and it goes a lot deeper than just the game yesterday. The season is a write off with all the ridiculous inconsistencies in how VR is being used, when VR is not even actually allowed in the laws of the game, see page 138, it's quite clear in the premier league "The final decision is always taken by the referee, " is not happening, it's being dictated and they're being forced to agree with whatever VR tells them:

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/794/103357_200519_LotG_201920_EN_Booklet.pdf