VAR got that wrong. It’s just not possible to do that move with a normal human body.
People thinking VAR got it right need to think hard about the human body or get a ball to test
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
- Start date
VAR got that wrong. It’s just not possible to do that move with a normal human body.
People thinking VAR got it right need to think hard about the human body or get a ball to test
I see it totally the same as you pal, except I thought it was a foul on first viewing!
Certainly the classic foul "anywhere else on pitch" job.
VAR got that wrong. It’s just not possible to do that move with a normal human body.
People thinking VAR got it right need to think hard about the human body or get a ball to test
Not hitting his arm is the key here. The second angle showed that.
It was pure hopefulness thinking it hit an arm
In the video they showed on TV it looked like the ball hit his hand before it bounced up to his shoulder. I thought that is what they were looking at before they then showed the stopped frame where it hit his shoulder/chest. TV did not stop on the initial part of the review so who knows. His arm/hand was down in that area when the ball came in.
The proper angle showed it wasn't off the arm.
The fact we're all arguing this even with the slow mo tv replays says it all about the difficult job VAR has!
Well what did the ball hit then?
Shoulder. Which isn't a hand or an arm.
I remember playing with a guy whose special move was intentionally shoudering balls!
What do you mean here?
The rule is you can't benefit as an attacker from a handball.
It doesn't matter what sh!T the balls deflects onto your hand from anymore.
But today,I don't think it actually hit the arm.
Thr annoying thing is that defenders usually get free kicks for absolutey nothing in similar positions, they fall over with the slightest touch and invariably get the free kick.
Exactly. The way the rule is worded is unclear.
So which is it? A handball or deflection?
The one part of his body it definitely didn't hit was his shoulder. The ball would've gone up not down
It definitely didn’t hit his shoulder. The ball reacts differently if it hits the shoulder. The ball drops perfectly which suggests it hits the arm. That along with the picture where it shows it hit his arm.
I’m not in favour of VAR. I think it ruins the game.
10 years ago, I often thought ‘If they had some cameras to allow and disallow goals, football would be perfect. It would be fair when it needed to be. You wouldn’t feel angry anymore when your teams valid goal was wrongly disallowed.’
But that is often NOT the case. Its supposed to be a good system but instead it’s bringing MORE controversy.
It’s not nice when your team is finally looking like winning that title that hasn’t come home since I wasn’t born and people call it fixed. I wish VAR didn’t exist.
That being said, I don’t think the game is bent. Every week we’ll see teams benefiting from it, and some teams, not. That much is clear to me.
My god thank you, I thought I was going mad. I was convinced it hit his fingers/hand initially. If someone can post a slow mo clipping of the whole thing, that would be great.
MotD says to me that he must have handled that to control the ball. Probably quite a lot as well.
There isn't much evidence though, between frames and wrong angle I don't know.
All a bit strange.
There isn't much evidence though, between frames and wrong angle I don't know.
All a bit strange.
The ball hits his thigh, goes up spinning alongside the left part of his torso and gets "slowed down" by his pec and bottom of the shoulder. To me that is not handball and it doesn't get anywhere near his bicep or his hand.
Not sure if we're allowed to post streamble links but here it is: streamable . com /y2f0i
Not sure if we're allowed to post streamble links but here it is: streamable . com /y2f0i
Indeed.
Could you imagine that charge being allowed against a goalkeeper for instance? Never in a million years.
As I said though SU were diving in all game and by allowing it to go on the ref set the match on a certain path which played into their hands whipping the crowd up even more. There's clearly a lot of paranoia around the favourable treatment of other clubs but I definitely think other teams would've reacted differently to the aggression and gone someway to changing the type of game. Had the Norwood-Jones 50-50 involved someone from City or Liverpool or spurs etc their player would've rolled around screaming in agony for 5mins whether at fault or not. Things like that help set the tone of the match but we played right into their hands
You've been reading too many Kennedy assassination books.
Feel free to point me to any footage showing the ball hitting his hand. In the meantime i've got books to read.
I agree with 99% of your comment.
Every Monday morning, the convo is about the latest batch of VAR controversy.
How the hell is football improved by chalking off a goal because an attacker 30 yards from goal has a big toe in a offside position..?
Whatever happened to benefit of the doubt going in favour of the attacker?
Supporters want to see goals and not to see a machine searching for an excuse to cancel a goal.
No common sense and no consistency. I think its a fiasco.
Firstly, I have no actual evidence, obviously. I feel you may have spotted that.
This made me wonder about what we have seen though, specifically the photo earlier of the ball on the outside of his arm where someone mentioned the badge. It's hardly proof either way imo.
But what I don't get is how the ball gets there, but then drops to the floor for him to score. Or for it to have done, the cross is still travelling across with reasonable energy and ought to carry on going away from him.
Hes controlled it in a way we haven't seen despite it being filmed and he's taken the pace off the ball where a photo kind of suggests he hasn't.
We aren't too far apart I don't think, it either runs diagonally across his trunk or up his arm off of his thigh either way, as some say.
How does it get to be outside his body frame past his arm as is pictured. Is he some kind of illusionist or magician?
Good post. feck this have class thing, the game is dirty, play it or get left behind. I want Rashford to harass the ref and throw himself to the ground going mental screaming for yellow card and I'll be right beside him screaming at the screen. He doesn't get points from the ref for showing class, being calm etc.. as the majority of refs are dumb as bricks looking to bring a spectacle to the game.
fecking weirdoes the lot of them honestly. The inconsistency is inexcusable at this point. Just a couple of season ago the refs had caused outrage, yet since then the focus has been on VAR as a solution and it gets the criticism but the system is flawed as the refs have no blueprint to follow for consistency and no mutual understanding of the rules. Half the refs makes shit up as they go a long if it fits into the pre game narrative.Sheffield had their first PL game against United in forever and they were much stronger than us physically, looking to make it hard for us. The ref aware of this never blew his whistle for fouls they made, yet gave them soft fouls when we won a duel going in hard. Two different rules for two different teams. Only way to change the narrative is to break the game up by any means necessary and change the atmosphere. If the ref gets applauded from the whole stadium he feels it is confirmation that he is doing something right, so if our team doesn't challenge the easily swayed refs in this country they will get ran over, unless we can build a pre game narrative that supports us, but our club and fans is always in this negative space. If a negative thing happens, it is confirmation of what the belief is and is perceived as the natural outcome.
Example: If Van Djik got pushed over like Jones did, it would be a foul because he is not perceived as someone who is easy to push off the ball so it becomes clear to the ref it is a foul because he simply assumes Van Djik wouldn't fall over if it weren't a foul. Where as with Jones, he is viewed as a donkey who makes mistakes, so when the ref see him fall over and make a mistake he has no incentive of "giving him a break". Yet, it's the same foul, two different outcomes, it is bias.. I'm maybe simpleminded but I just think a foul is a foul either way, and want to see unbiased decisions made. It is not too much to ask. To get all decisions right is hard and VAR struggles with it, but at least get the fecking basics down before you go analysing marginal offsides and shit.
Last edited:
Yeah. Dont think it was a handball, but their attacker bodychecks Jones and in those situations the FK is given every time. The fact that Palace got their first goal vs Liverpool overruled for a slight push on a player that were nowhere near the ball is infuriating
Was it even reviewed by VAR? I don't get it if it wasn't, and I certainly don't get why they couldn't overrule the ref if so in this instance. Looked like they just ignored the whole situation. Why?
It was not and have no idea why. I guess the ref saw it clearly, but in that case he fecked it up
They can't overrule him if he has seen it? So we are back to that way of applying it again? They flipflop each week. Game is so rigged now it is laughable we're all taking it so seriously. What are we doing here, the product we're paying for is the beta version at best.
the offside rule with this iteration of VAR is ridiculous. I knew that Sterling goal was onside and after seeing a still of the decision I still think it is. They seem to have put the line right through the middle of Sterling's upper back which of course he can score with.
The whole point of the offside rule is so that players don't get a head start/positional advantage on the defender. Now they have the technology offside should go purely off the furthest forward part of the feet seeing as though it is the feet that gain the positional advantage. If someone like peter crouch wants lean forward to head a goal he shouldn't be penalised as he is using his physical size to his advantage which he pays for in things like a decrease in speed and mobility, he is being punished twice.
I've seen three goals ruled off side already due to a person in van deciding where on where to draw the VAR line because he is guessing where the legal part of the body to play the ball should end.
The whole point of the offside rule is so that players don't get a head start/positional advantage on the defender. Now they have the technology offside should go purely off the furthest forward part of the feet seeing as though it is the feet that gain the positional advantage. If someone like peter crouch wants lean forward to head a goal he shouldn't be penalised as he is using his physical size to his advantage which he pays for in things like a decrease in speed and mobility, he is being punished twice.
I've seen three goals ruled off side already due to a person in van deciding where on where to draw the VAR line because he is guessing where the legal part of the body to play the ball should end.
They should change the name to LAR
Rubbish article.
His thigh killed most of the ball's momentum. It's not either it's both, thigh then alongside his trunk then gravity make the ball fall down.
If the ball had hit his hand before his thigh during the missing footage, wouldn't there be a lot more appeal from every United defender ? Maguire only starts to appeal when the ball gets near his shoulder.
I constantly change my mind about VAR. But if you were to optimize the referee level in the Premier League, then I would prefer that it would be possible to hire the best referees across nationalities, so that the best league would have the best referees. If the players can change league and country, then why can't the referees?
I changed my vote, because VAR is mostly infuriating in its current form. I'm for the technology, but the rules have to change with the technical possibilities for everything to make sense in the end.
They should pay some people to work out a system of reference for analysing incidents quickly and on the fly. VAR could have two separate refs in a room in the refs ear. If a foul is possibly soft the ref will have a discussion before blowing his whistle to determine if it fits with the blue print of consistency. Play will keep going for a few seconds until a decision is made. Most fouls are really easy so it will happen very fast. Will be an adjustment period for everyone, but a small one compared to this mess. Also, eventually the refs will know themselves how to official in a consistent matter aware of bigger picture.
Then track the players with a chip in their boots and put lasers on the sidelines, and that information gets instantly sent directly to the VAR team which finds the frame where the ball leaves the foot and cross reference that with the timing of when the info arrived to quickly determine if a player was offside or not. Shouldn't take more than 10 seconds this way if they just physically do the task quickly.
Then track the players with a chip in their boots and put lasers on the sidelines, and that information gets instantly sent directly to the VAR team which finds the frame where the ball leaves the foot and cross reference that with the timing of when the info arrived to quickly determine if a player was offside or not. Shouldn't take more than 10 seconds this way if they just physically do the task quickly.
How would you compare it to Bundesliga? I know they are far better off in terms of implementation, but is it still widely accepted and not causing problems as in PL?
Wow, just wow. Could we just play football, you know like we have for thousands of years!?
I’m not having a dig at you personally mate, just can’t believe people would be willing to spoil the enjoyment of the game any further than it already has been.
Football... the not so beautiful game.
I want VAR reversed even more than Brexit
No that's absolutely not what i wanted to say. ^^ It's mostly just as erratic and dumb for us.
Dermot Gallagher feels every VAR decision bar one was correct this weekend:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-foul-at-selhurst-park-says-dermot-gallagher
What an utter tool. I bet the officials in this country to around patting themselves on the back no matter what decisions they make. Never seen a profession which attracts so many self-righteous pricks. Maybe parking ticket attendants.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-foul-at-selhurst-park-says-dermot-gallagher
What an utter tool. I bet the officials in this country to around patting themselves on the back no matter what decisions they make. Never seen a profession which attracts so many self-righteous pricks. Maybe parking ticket attendants.
1. Yes, That's what I want to see. A fair game where the ref no longer is in the center of attention every other week. We're talking about the top level here, this is supposed to be the pinnacle of football we're watching. Stakes are higher and refereeing should be way different to a local team that can archive the purpose with an old ground keeper hanging about. The game is evolving , it's getting quicker and better and you might want to ask why the refs in this country aren't athletes themselves. I'm sure being a ref is hard, and if you can't keep up physically it impacts the game tremendously. The standards of refereeing has dropped since the game has gotten quicker, it hurts the game.
2. No, that's fine. I'm interested in your opinion. What about my proposition would spoil any enjoyment from the game?
3. You want it reversed? Are you against the technology aspect of it specifically or do you not like the concept of giving help to refs?
The linesman had deemed it offside anyway. So you got the exact same outcome you would have got pre-VAR. You're also misreading the image they posted but that's by the by.
Though there are plenty of changes that could be made to the offside rule if people really object to marginal offside calls.
I believe the game was not broken to begin with, there was no overwhelming outcry week after week at poor decisions that warranted such a huge defacing of the game we love watching.
I am not against technology however it doesn’t particularly fit well with football specifically.
Absolutely anything that interferes with the speed and tempo of the game is a huge no from me.
Not only does it affect the speed and tempo of the game itself it actually, and perhaps even more importantly, negatively affects the fan reaction and emotion to a goal due to the inevitable goal review.
Even Klopp admitted he didn’t celebrate Liverpool’s second goal against City because he wanted to be sure it wasn’t being reviewed and disallowed.
In a nutshell that comment from Klopp proves my point, nothing good can possibly come from tempering or stifling fan emotion.
Fan emotion and love for the game is what has made this game the biggest sport in the world, the change VAR has brought to the fan experience is terrible, it truly has affected my enthusiasm for watching the sport.