Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[RUCK4444]

VAR is everything I knew it would be, I despise it, even though it went our way today.

I repeat my original thoughts on VAR, why try to fix something that is not broken?

The exceptionally marginal calls that are being made by VAR do not justify sucking the soul out of the goal celebrations.

Can somebody point to an horrendous decision in recent times that caused uproar and a team to win/lose a major cup or something to that effect? I just don’t understand the huge appetite to implement it.

The last major incident I can remember was the Henry handball many moons ago. In my opinion there wasn’t ever enough justification to implement such a huge change to the game and the negative effect it has on the fan emotion for goals.

I watch a huge amount of football, it’s a big part of my life and without sounding melodramatic its really souring the experience.

Every single game the talk is about VAR rather than the game itself and discussing at huge length every decision.

The decisions aren’t even always correct.
They won’t overturn ref calls.
The refs won’t use the actual feckin’ TVs.
It will ultimately have a poor affect on the quality of refereeing in general.
The fan emotion and celebrations are affected.

All for what? So we can all avoid sleepless nights about a goal we conceded where the players little toe was offside?? Simply. Ridiculous.

 

[Beans]

Never celebrated the goal because I wasn't sure it would stand. By the time it was confirmed the moment had passed.

 

[roonster09]

controlled is a bit strong, rightly ruled out but it was contact with the hand rather than him actively controlling the ball with it

if we are talking about the incident when the ball is kicked from 5 yards away then yeah, Mane goal shouldn’t have been called handball under Ole rule. In this case it was long pass from nearly half way line, it was handball under any rule. He didn’t control the ball using his hand but he used to gain advantage.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Whether or not our goal today should have counted, I don't like that VAR can go back and look for fouls in the build up, because if you look hard enough, you are going to find something. For me, a "foul" that happens in the other half of the field shouldn't be eligible for review because there is still so much more football to be played. The "foul" didn't cause the goal. Origi's poor touch did so he tried to buy a foul. Thing is, whether Lindeloff "touched him" or not, the play would have still ended up the same way with Origi's poor first touch going straight to McTominay. So Klopp can whine all he wants about how it was a "blatant foul" and "everything went against us today", but truth of the matter is, if his player didn't have a horrible first touch and try to make up for it by diving, the goal never would have happened...

 

[MackRobinson]

I don't believe anyone who says they stop celebrating goals because of VAR. So let me get this straight, you are watching your team and they score. Somehow you instantly think about VAR instead of rather than the jubilation of your team scoring? I don't buy it.

 

[Wumminator]

I don't believe anyone who says they stop celebrating goals because of VAR. So let me get this straight, you are watching your team and they score. Somehow you instantly think about VAR instead of rather than the jubilation of your team scoring? I don't buy it.

It literally happened live on camera yesterday with Gary Neville.

 

[Top]

I don't believe anyone who says they stop celebrating goals because of VAR. So let me get this straight, you are watching your team and they score. Somehow you instantly think about VAR instead of rather than the jubilation of your team scoring? I don't buy it.

That is exactly how it is for me. I knew the Rashford goal could be overturned, so didn’t celebrate much. Just like when you know a player is likely offside.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I started to shout and celebrate then realised what was going on so cut it short and then had the most anxious wait. No fun in that for me.

As time goes on no doubt celebrations will be put on hold.

As for you not believing anyone who says this..

 

[fergieisold]

I don't know the rule but was it the correct decision yesterday? There was a foul but the player had already lost the ball and the foul had no bearing on the goal.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I don't believe anyone who says they stop celebrating goals because of VAR. So let me get this straight, you are watching your team and they score. Somehow you instantly think about VAR instead of rather than the jubilation of your team scoring? I don't buy it.

I literally did this yesterday in the ground... as I was pretty convinced that Lindelof fouled Divock (still think it was a foul too)

 

[Camilo]

Absolute joke of a system. Compelely unnecessary, badly implemented, and the upside of occasionally correcting an important call is swamped with the negatives.. Waiting to celebrate, goals allowed that actually shouldn't be, goals that really should stand being chalked off for pathetically small infringements..

I think exactly what I thought a year ago - it's pointless and doesn't improve the game. It's fixing (if you can call it fixing when half the time the decision is baffling) something which didn't need fixing. It's a shame people don't have humility to acknowledge a bad choice, because it's here to stay through stubbornness more than anything.

 

[GBBQ]

I don't know the rule but was it the correct decision yesterday? There was a foul but the player had already lost the ball and the foul had no bearing on the goal.

Yeah thats key for me, how far back in the game do you go and ow much of the ref's decisions do you overturn. He was fouled under the nose of the ref in United's half. The ref deemed it not to be a foul (probably not helped by Origi's theatrical dive). United go up the other end of the pitch against a properly set Liverpool defence and score.

 

[Thunderhead]

Yeah thats key for me, how far back in the game do you go and ow much of the ref's decisions do you overturn. He was fouled under the nose of the ref in United's half. The ref deemed it not to be a foul (probably not helped by Origi's theatrical dive). United go up the other end of the pitch against a properly set Liverpool defence and score.

You go on the phase of play, say if the ball was cleared to the edge of the box instead of being scored then someone got the ball played it out wide and you then scored VAR wouldn't come into it as it's a different phase of play

 

[Renegade]

Could of swore people use to complain about the lack off technology used to help refs before VAR was introduced.

Now we have it. It’s far from perfect but it’s in its infancy.

also anyone have the picture of Origi holding the wrong leg when he went to ground after the challenge? Seriously this play acting is ridiculous. Poor touch so he flings himself. It’s a contact sport ffs a gentle tap on the shinpad shouldn’t be sending a whole grown athlete to the ground.

 

[dove]

VAR itself is great, Premier League's implementation of it is terrible as expected though. It works great in other European leagues but PL is trying to reinvent the wheel and be better at it.

 

[meamth]

Maybe people are just pissed to celebrate twice.

I didn't, I celebrated the moment Rashy scored and trolled my brother when the goal counts.

 

[robinamicrowave]

VAR itself is great, Premier League's implementation of it is terrible as expected though. It works great in other European leagues but PL is trying to reinvent the wheel and be better at it.

In one.

 

[Treble]

The English referees are poor and VAR magnifies their mistakes. What makes things worse though is the implementation which is supposed to rule out only really bad mistakes but doesn't do it. The VAR people should be allowed to correct the mistakes, the bar is set ridiculously high now.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

VAR itself is great, Premier League's implementation of it is terrible as expected though. It works great in other European leagues but PL is trying to reinvent the wheel and be better at it.

Yep... Its just arrogance really. "Oh we'll use your fancy new tool, but we'll do it better then you lot 'cos we're the most bestest and the biggest league in the whole wide world"

 

[A-man]

Whether or not our goal today should have counted, I don't like that VAR can go back and look for fouls in the build up, because if you look hard enough, you are going to find something. For me, a "foul" that happens in the other half of the field shouldn't be eligible for review because there is still so much more football to be played..

Exactly my view as well. It should be something wrong around the goal scorer or maybe the one who made the pass but not some tiny detail happening on the other side of the pitch half a year earlier.

 

[MackRobinson]

It literally happened live on camera yesterday with Gary Neville.

That is exactly how it is for me. I knew the Rashford goal could be overturned, so didn’t celebrate much. Just like when you know a player is likely offside.

I literally did this yesterday in the ground... as I was pretty convinced that Lindelof fouled Divock (still think it was a foul too)

@Wumminator It seems like he celebrated. A bit muted but he did celebrate

I guess I'll take your word for it, but it's a bit odd to me. Offside is one thing, but the PL overturns fouls leading to goals so rarely that I don't know why anyone would not celebrate goals.

 

[MackRobinson]

I started to shout and celebrate then realised what was going on so cut it short and then had the most anxious wait. No fun in that for me.

As time goes on no doubt celebrations will be put on hold.

As for you not believing anyone who says this..

1) I just don't think about VAR until the commentator mentions it
2) The PL rarely (if ever) overturns fouls, so that goal was never at risk for getting called off based on precedent.
3) I literally watched damn near everyone celebrate when the Rashfords goal was scored

So yes, it's plausible I don't believe it.

 

[Hound Dog]

In one.

Which one do you mean?

It has been working just fine in Italy and Germany for years. Introduced in Spain this season as well, not working nearly as terrible as in England.

The biggest controversy I can remember from these leagues was a couple of years ago in Germany, when a penalty was conceded in the last action before the half-time break. The referee reviewed the incident after the half-time whistle and the players then had to go back from their dressing rooms in order for the pen to be taken.

This incident was a part of a learning curve, but the constant missed calls and goals disallowed for offsides such as the one in the Leicester-Spurs games; this happened no where except for England.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

1) I just don't think about VAR until the commentator mentions it
2) The PL rarely (if ever) overturns fouls, so that goal was never at risk for getting called off based on precedent.
3) I literally watched damn near everyone celebrate when the Rashfords goal was scored

So yes, it's plausible I don't believe it.

It's worth saying that i was very much in the minority - everyone else around me was going bananas

Also, I'm utterly convinced that we will be the first team that VAR does decide to overturn a soft foul for.

 

[robinamicrowave]

Which one do you mean?

It has been working just fine in Italy and Germany for years. Introduced in Spain this season as well, not working nearly as terrible as in England.

The biggest controversy I can remember from these leagues was a couple of years ago in Germany, when a penalty was conceded in the last action before the half-time break. The referee reviewed the incident after the half-time whistle and the players then had to go back from their dressing rooms in order for the pen to be taken.

This incident was a part of a learning curve, but the constant missed calls and goals disallowed for offsides such as the one in the Leicester-Spurs games; this happened no where except for England.

That's what I mean. VAR isn't the problem, it's just got idiots using it at the moment.

 

[dwd]

@Wumminator It seems like he celebrated. A bit muted but he did celebrate

I guess I'll take your word for it, but it's a bit odd to me. Offside is one thing, but the PL overturns fouls leading to goals so rarely that I don't know why anyone would not celebrate goals.

Looks to me like he's trying not to go mental because of the fact he is on TV and he's sat next to a scouser! I don't think VAR played a part in his reaction at all there and I don't see how United fans are giving him stick for it either. We've all been there, not being able to celebrate properly due to our surroundings

 

[bleedred]

PGMOL Explanation.

“Firstly, the on-field referee didn’t think it was a foul and VAR checked/decided that it wasn’t a clear and obvious error to not award the foul,” the PGMOL said to Sky Sports after the match. “Secondly, VAR isn’t re-refereeing matches – there is contact but VAR was comfortable it wasn’t enough to disallow the goal.”

 

[bleedred]

Which one do you mean?

It has been working just fine in Italy and Germany for years. Introduced in Spain this season as well, not working nearly as terrible as in England.

The biggest controversy I can remember from these leagues was a couple of years ago in Germany, when a penalty was conceded in the last action before the half-time break. The referee reviewed the incident after the half-time whistle and the players then had to go back from their dressing rooms in order for the pen to be taken.

This incident was a part of a learning curve, but the constant missed calls and goals disallowed for offsides such as the one in the Leicester-Spurs games; this happened no where except for England.

People just keep saying that. But they have the very similar VAR controversies as PL every other week and they are not getting much attention, because of less viewers.

These are just from the last few weeks.!

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-var-has-stolen-footballs-soul/a-50901662

https://www.football-italia.net/145353/rizzoli-six-errors-var

https://www.besoccer.com/new/var-had-to-make-very-difficult-decision-in-la-liga-730049

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49948531

https://www.90min.com/posts/6465588...-la-liga-clash-between-valencia-athletic-club


So, I don't know on what basis, people keep claiming its working fine in other leagues and in PL its not implemented well.

 

[Mb194dc]

The Valencia Bilbao one was the broadcaster getting it wrong. The RFEF was going to sue mediaset as they didn't use the VAR image and created a "false one".

https://www.20minutos.es/deportes/noticia/guerra-rfef-mediapro-var-imagenes-3781609/0/

I watch a lot of La liga games, at least equal with the amount with premier league games (probably more after Utd Palace this season, in which the refereeing was so poor I decided couldn't take it, to watch more games like that...) , can say it's not even comparable (in the games I've watched this season). Also trying to watch some Serie A when time.

Spurs Watford was another one by the look of highlights, Dele clearly uses his arm, then scores, plus the pen decision...

Why has it been allowed?

Looks to me like the referee got it "wrong", not VAR screen.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

PGMOL Explanation.

Seems reasonable. It wasn't a foul anyway. There's contact on his left calf. A delay. Then he flings his head back and swan dives to the ground because the ball gets away from him. Then he's on the ground holding his other leg.

Dive and simulation. Should have been booked.

 

[sullydnl]

In terms of how VAR is presented to fans, having the decision on subjective calls made by the referee looking at the monitor on the side of the pitch would be a lot more palatable, I think.

Even if you disagree with his subjective decision, it would be clear to absolutely everyone (at home and in the stadium) that the decision was looked at and that the referee took responsibility and made the call himself having seen the incident in its entirety (the contact, the context, the exaggerated reaction of the fouled player, etc.). Rather than two different people looking at subjective decision, you have the person who has always been making the subjective calls making the best subjective calls possible with the aid of VT. If you don't agree with the decision you know exactly who the responsibility lies with, you know VAR did its job in giving the ref the opportunity to make the best possible call and you know the call he made was (in his opinion) just that. It's all on the referee (just as before) but the referee will be making better calls.

Whereas as is we see the ref and players mill about while a discussion we can't hear takes place, which results in a decision. Even if this process gets as many calls right as the above there is still less confidence in the process due to the uncertainty as to where the responsibility lies, what informed the ref's original decision, whether there are conflicting views on the subjective decision from VAR, etc. Much less clear and (despite probably being quicker) much more frustrating imo.

 

[Hound Dog]

People just keep saying that. But they have the very similar VAR controversies as PL every other week and they are not getting much attention, because of less viewers.

These are just from the last few weeks.!

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-var-has-stolen-footballs-soul/a-50901662

https://www.football-italia.net/145353/rizzoli-six-errors-var

https://www.besoccer.com/new/var-had-to-make-very-difficult-decision-in-la-liga-730049

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49948531

https://www.90min.com/posts/6465588...-la-liga-clash-between-valencia-athletic-club


So, I don't know on what basis, people keep claiming its working fine in other leagues and in PL its not implemented well.

On basis of watching games.

There are always errors and room for improvement, but there are far more erros in England than anywhere else, as the referees are simply unwilling to overturn decisions.

There are people crying for the soul of football evrywhere, but what I was talking about was getting the correct calls. In that regard, England is behind at the moment.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

VAR itself is great, Premier League's implementation of it is terrible as expected though. It works great in other European leagues but PL is trying to reinvent the wheel and be better at it.

How do they use it elsewhere? I primarily watch PL so not sure...

 

[dove]

How do they use it elsewhere? I primarily watch PL so not sure...

I mainly watch La Liga and if for example ref made a questionable decision (goals, yellow/red cards), VAR will tell him and the ref will go to watch the episode on the screen. Then the decision is up to him, similarly to PSG game which I guess you saw. It's not only for "clear and obvious errors" which seems to be the case in PL because they protect the refs so much that they are untouchable. You will still have controversies of course but it just feels much more consistent because the decisions are made by the referee himself, not someone sitting in the studio feck knows where.

 

[sullydnl]

How do they use it elsewhere? I primarily watch PL so not sure...

The key difference is that they tend to be far more willing to change subjective calls in other leagues, or rather refer them back to the referee to look at himself.

For example, according to the decisions the PL's VAR system has made so far not one penalty call has been wrong in the 89 games played. Which is clearly ludicrous. Yet we're still getting delays as VAR still has to look at those decisions before they inevitably fail to meet the PL's high threshold for intervention. So it's the worst of both worlds.

 

[giorno]

Roma just got robbed of a win to a horrifying bad call by the ref

And that is why football without VAR makes no sense anymore

 

[awop]

Roma just got robbed of a win to a horrifying bad call by the ref

And that is why football without VAR makes no sense anymore

Nobody even appealed for anything, he just decided a 94' penalty would be fun to give.

 

[André Dominguez]

Roma just got robbed of a win to a horrifying bad call by the ref

And that is why football without VAR makes no sense anymore

This was one of the worst decisions I ever saw by a pro ref. It wasn't even doubtful, the ball clearly hits right in the face. How can the ref turn this into a penalty?

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

2:55, Lukaku's goal which was clearly offside and even VAR reviewed was given.

 

[giorno]

That's not the image VAR used though. Just the one they showed on tv