There has never been a big team bias in the P.L - rather the contrary. When we were totally dominant people were complaining about opponents never getting penalties at O.T. Of course the same person usually left out : a) That the opponents usually didn't have the ball near our goal so it was hard to get penalties and b) Despite us being completely dominant in 80% of the matches - we usually weren't near the top of the penalties awarded list. There was one season when Andy Johnson was awarded more penalties than our entire team.
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
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There has never been a big team bias in the P.L - rather the contrary. When we were totally dominant people were complaining about opponents never getting penalties at O.T. Of course the same person usually left out : a) That the opponents usually didn't have the ball near our goal so it was hard to get penalties and b) Despite us being completely dominant in 80% of the matches - we usually weren't near the top of the penalties awarded list. There was one season when Andy Johnson was awarded more penalties than our entire team.
Emotions work both ways for us fans.
If our teams' goal is disallowed after VAR decision it makes us look like fools after our initial exuberance. However, if an opposition goal is disallowed its celebration time.
The accidental handball in the area is just plain stupid. Should we cut players hands-off?
If our teams' goal is disallowed after VAR decision it makes us look like fools after our initial exuberance. However, if an opposition goal is disallowed its celebration time.
The accidental handball in the area is just plain stupid. Should we cut players hands-off?
It’s not about looking like a fool, it’s the emotional drain on the fan and players after wildly celebrating for two minutes to find out the goal is then ruled out. I think that’s utterly ridiculous.
I’ll certainly reign my celebrations in instead of going wild from now on, I already have, you get the initial jump up and a shout of yes and then an anxious wait. Pretty shit imo
I’ll certainly reign my celebrations in instead of going wild from now on, I already have, you get the initial jump up and a shout of yes and then an anxious wait. Pretty shit imo
What about the opposite? What about the agony of defeat followed by jubilation?
Being a fan is emotionally draining regardless. That won't change with or without VAR
Celebrating a non goal? meh.
That Still doesn’t effect having to check your own goal celebrations and to me that’s what football is all about. Goals, great goals and wildly celebrating. Not worrying about the width of a gnats arse hair to make sure the game has been ‘fair’ while other decisions get overlooked.
I’ve said it a million times, a fourth official with a tv screen to see absolute obvious errors, eg Henry handball, hand of god, wrong person sending off, I’m all for that. How often does that even happen?
Using a specialised room to analyse 1cm offsides and only call some fouls which are all subjective is a nonsense to me
Hope more people are being convinced of it's shiteness now.
I'm actually surprised so many people are against VAR now. I personally didn't like it in the world cup, but I almost only heard praise for it. Now it's implemented in the PL (and even used less) and we have so many people complaining. What made the public perception change?
VAR has not caused me to stop celebration b/c I'm not concerned about VAR when I'm watching a match. Late offside flags and fouls have ruled out goals before. This isn't a new phenomenon. Only difference is the amount of time between checks can be lengthy.
The infractions reviewable by VAR are a problem of the rule set not VAR. The governing bodies can choose not to enforce offsides if a player is 1cm offsides, nor does it have to review subjective fouls. VAR is merely a tool. The implementation is depends on the rule makers and it (like literally ALL technology implementations can be improved). Taking the stance that VAR is inherently bad and will never work is just a silly, myopic POV.
Silly myopic point of view? Ha, ok.
Let’s wait for more ruled out goals after 2 minutes or until this magical improvement that keeps being mentioned happens and we’ll go from there.
Yes. You can not like VAR and still have perspective.
To me it comes down to whether you think attempting to reduce "error" in officiating is something worth pursuing or not. At the moment there are two separate challenges. What the technology is capable of, and how that technology is being used. There is no reason to believe that both of these things cannot be improved (although that doesn't mean that they WILL be improved).
Currently there's a focus on a few occasions where a goal has been disallowed. But this ignores scenarios where a ref would have blown the whistle but instead can let the play finish if he's not certain. When a linesman THINKS that the player is offside but rather than call it allows play to continue. The resulting goal may or may not be allowed, but at least it won't be disallowed because of an incorrect offside call (in theory).
And as technology improves, some of these things can be automated.
I think there are a number of challenges that VAR faces. Not least of which is that referees are incentivised to make non-calls and let the system sort it out afterwards, but personally I feel like the challenges are ones that can overcome, and I believe that trying to move towards a higher percentage of right calls is the right decision.
This requires you to think of VAR as being another step in the journey, not the solution to get to 100%. I've heard about inconsistencies (why used here and not there?) but those are arguments around the system being a solution 100% of the time, rather than an improvement in scenarios where it's used.
Just my 2 cents.
I'd love to see a poll of fans who attend matches and ask them about VAR cause I'd be surprised if under 90% didn't say they hated it . Its better for the TV fan but at the grounds I absolutely hate it ..
It's even worse at OT with no screen and that woman calling out the decision
It's even worse at OT with no screen and that woman calling out the decision
People are terrified of new things and like to moan
For the record, it's here to stay. Best make your peace with it
We got used to it pretty quickly over here
The way it’s being used in the PL is much worse than at the World Cup.
It’s also been crap in the UEFA competitions and at the women’s World Cup.
We’ve gone from a system just over a year ago that leaned towards giving decisions in the attackers favour (i.e. lots more penalties) to one that’s now primarily used to find reasons to disallow goals.
It seems logical to me to think that the writing of the rules & the interpretation of the rules are not independent things. There is a connection between them. You can't therefore, just say ''oh them's the rules, nothing to do with VAR'' when these top officials are pondering what to do or formulating some justification a couple of days afterwards.
I mean, we don't know the exact admin process by which the handball interpretation & advices has changed a couple of times (for the better, imo) but it clearly has been influenced or done with the VAR in mind, at least. And is in a good place now. That's the positive evolution as well, I suppose.
I think the Premier League approach is quite good in theory. But in a way, the on field want to use it & the off field (the VAR) don't want to use it.
I mean, we don't know the exact admin process by which the handball interpretation & advices has changed a couple of times (for the better, imo) but it clearly has been influenced or done with the VAR in mind, at least. And is in a good place now. That's the positive evolution as well, I suppose.
I think the Premier League approach is quite good in theory. But in a way, the on field want to use it & the off field (the VAR) don't want to use it.
Sterling's arm was offside the opening day of the season I don't care but that's just not right . Football is about scoring goals entertaining fans but this is just anti entertainment to me . We are in danger of heading down the route of Amercian sports and that's why I don't watch any of them apart from basketball .
I was at Wolves on Monday night . It took a full 2 minutes to see if someone's toe was offside and to rule out that absolute wonder strike . That for me is taking away from football .
The offside rule is even worse
We will get used to it, its not going to stop fans celebrating, that's in the moment and instinctive, its not going to change that, even if you know that you might feel like a dick in a few minutes if its ruled out. Its not going away anytime soon. Its a shame that oppo fans cheer a non goal, but I don't expect that to change either.
It's perfectly natural to celebrate an overturned goal in certain circumstances, just as you would if a penalty was saved. I've experienced it twice against City, and if a VAR decision (or penalty save for that matter) in extra time send you to the CL semifinal you would celebrate as if it was a goal.
A penalty save is not the same, you're cheering the goalie as much as the goal not been scored, plus a penalty isn't a goal until its scored.
I get why they do it but cheering a VAR decision is weird and something else we'll have to get used to, score a goal, celebrate, two minutes later, goal ruled out other fans celebrate.
40 pages and years since I've been on here regularly, so apologies if it's already been debated to death, but I just feel like it is absolutely essential that this isn't used to the extent that it disrupts the flow of play. There could be single instances of goals being scored after free kicks, throw ins, etc have been incorrectly called, and media hysteria at that point about how VAR could've stopped these injustices. You really risk making football very stop/start if you start going down that road.
feckin hell, some of them brexiteers are absolutely bonkers
On another note, I thought it took out the joy of the game that VAR had to be listened to for a little time while measuring nano-milimeters (if there's ever such a word) after Neves beautiful goal against us. All this measuring of irrellevant pubic hairs just kills the vibe and flow for me. Use it for the important stuff at least. Football is about emotions, not milimeters
I thought it was quite bad at the World Cup. Lots of handballs in natural positions given as penalties, where the defender had no intention (and no advantage) of using the hand. Very cheap penalties. Also at least 3 penalties I recall from memory that should have been awarded but where VAR didnt intervene.
Anyways as you say there's a big difference in how its used.
To me it should only be used for really clear and obvious things, but thats kind of subjective too, as what to one ref or fan seems obvious, is not obvious to another.
Its tough to ever find a balance to create consistence, as some decisions are human based and some are based on a rule or measurement that cant be bend. I imagine the new handball rule is made out of the same logic - to make clear neutral rules - but does it add to the overall flow and entertainment of the game? And is the logic then to adjust all other areas accordingly to creative robotic neutrality in decisions like measuring milimeters? Only makes the game mechanic and empty I think.
I don't have a problem with VAR, it's the people that use it that are incompetent
This is very true though technically the people that use it are VAR (as it stands for Video Assistant Referee - so the bloke using it is VAR)... but thats just being pedantic.
I posted this in the Rooney thread, but this also shows how it's not really fair to watch replays in slow motion in my opinion:
Don't forget to change your votes if applicable.
I was at the game and it looked totally innocuous at the time. Looks just as innocuous on that replay too. Referee totally lost control of the game from this moment on -- crowd on his back, both sets of players on his back.
Although I think the most confusing aspect of this VAR decision was that the referee didn't give a penalty after he sent Rooney off, instead Red Bulls re-took the original corner that Rooney was sent off from. I'm guessing Rooney's contact with the other play must have happened fractionally before the corner kick was taken?
When you do that, You tend to call with regards to the injury rather than the foul. Even an innocuous tackle can look like a bad one.
This for example. And the next week, another panel of refs rescinded it.
Dont think so given how LFC and utd fans constantly telling City we're a smaller club. So yes, when racism happens to sterling for 3 years..... nothing is said until Sterling calls out the media..... Pogba - Meetings with Twitter, the internet being held to account, meetings with the govn.
It will be the same with VAR decisions. City fanbase ignored, Utd/LFC fanbase will not be/. Watch this space
It’s being implemented horribly in the Prem so far.
They are terrified of overruling too many decisions so they are doing the exact opposite and they’ve set the burden far too high. Stonewall pen for Chelsea not given today. Should have been a red for the Norwich player as well, was pretty clearly on purpose, can see he moves his foot to catch Mount.
Other leagues use it too much which causes controversy and they seem scared of doing the same. Instead they are going to cause controversy by not using it enough.
It feels like a Hot Fuzz scenario. Where they want to use the lack of interventions to claim they have the best refs in the world.
BT sport was interesting as well, the ex referee disagreed with VAR during the game and said it was a pen. Then after the game he says defender kicks Azpi leg and brings him down but it isn’t enough to overturn. Basically he’s scared to criticise his old colleagues. Same as every ref.
They are terrified of overruling too many decisions so they are doing the exact opposite and they’ve set the burden far too high. Stonewall pen for Chelsea not given today. Should have been a red for the Norwich player as well, was pretty clearly on purpose, can see he moves his foot to catch Mount.
Other leagues use it too much which causes controversy and they seem scared of doing the same. Instead they are going to cause controversy by not using it enough.
It feels like a Hot Fuzz scenario. Where they want to use the lack of interventions to claim they have the best refs in the world.
BT sport was interesting as well, the ex referee disagreed with VAR during the game and said it was a pen. Then after the game he says defender kicks Azpi leg and brings him down but it isn’t enough to overturn. Basically he’s scared to criticise his old colleagues. Same as every ref.
There was the palace chance today that was a bit of a scramble. I'm fairly certain there was at least one offside and one handball in there so if they had put it away in confident it would have been overturned. However it went out for a corner.
My question is why were they given the corner and what would have happened if they had scored from it?
My question is why were they given the corner and what would have happened if they had scored from it?
Absolute shambles.
VAR didn’t review because the initial foul was outside the area.
Pointless rubbish.
Did they get rid of it and forget to tell people? Bring it back!
JOKE
Ok that was absurd. Can live with the Cahill just being a yellow but he is clearly pulling him back there, what the feck VAR.
What's the point of the VAR????