Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[sullydnl]

The penalties haven’t actually been the issue with VAR though. At the World Cup they were clamping down holding in the area which seems to have gone out of the window in the PL. Laughable that people are defending this shitshow by saying it’s making things fairer when accidental “handballs” are now being penalised but actual deliberate cheating is just ignored.

Aye, I much preferred the WC system too.

The PL system has fewer interventions but a greater gap between how strict they are on some decisions (offside, handball) and how lenient they are on others (basically any subjective decision). That disparity is unsustainable imo.

Which either means the handball/offside rules need to be changed so VAR can treat them with more discretion or the PL will have to allow VAR to intervene more often on subjective decisions.

 

[Mb194dc]

They weren't straight red were they?

Yup, on both ref went check VAR monitor then red cards. Initially given as yellows I think.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Any explanation why the linesman lifted his flag for a tight offside call on Martial (that wasn't offside it turned out) when they're specifically instructed not to do that anymore?

 

[MackRobinson]

Well good job as you can’t come back with any valid argument to the fact that this great technology of VAR is some other guy looking at a replay. Cannot get quicker

You are just hurling around insults. Do everyone a favor and quit football since the game has been ruined. Be a pioneer instead of calling everyone stupid in every other post like a 10 year old. What a clown.

 

[Anustart89]

Any explanation why the linesman lifted his flag for a tight offside call on Martial (that wasn't offside it turned out) when they're specifically instructed not to do that anymore?

Because he's an idiot and/or biased.

 

[Amarsdd]

let me know if I saw it wrong, but when the VAR review was happening for the Neves goal, the Wolves player was offside? They seemed to draw that offside line from his feet whereas he was leaning and his right arm clearly extended forward and was thus offside. I thought the new rule means, the player is offside if any part of the player is ahead of the defending player. Based on this wasn't the Sterling goal given offside in the first matchday? If this is the case, why isn't anyone talking about it?

p.s. if anyone has the clip of that, I'd like to see it again.

 

[awop]

You are just hurling around insults. Do everyone a favor and quit football since the game has been ruined. Be a pioneer instead of calling everyone stupid in every other post like a 10 year old. What a clown.

Are you out of your mind ? Bow down, swallow your pride and admit you were wrong as he asked !

let me know if I saw it wrong, but when the VAR review was happening for the Neves goal, the Wolves player was offside? They seemed to draw that offside line from his feet whereas he was leaning and his right arm clearly extended forward and was thus offside. I thought the new rule means, the player is offside if any part of the player is ahead of the defending player. Based on this wasn't the Sterling goal given offside in the first matchday? If this is the case, why isn't anyone talking about it?

p.s. if anyone has the clip of that, I'd like to see it again.

The replay i saw, his arm is extended over the line but not the shoulder which is a part than can be used. The doubt is more about the actual position of his head, both his feet are behind the drawn line (which by the way are not drawn using MS Paint, there was a video showing exactly how it works and it is pretty accurate.)

 

[Velvet Revolver]

VAR on its own merit is good. But the rules that govern the decision are what makes it quite controversial. It was bound to happen because football as sport has innumerable use cases and we can't have rules for every single one of them. With Cricket and Tennis the rules are quite simple in my opinion.

The thing that irritates me is if the linesman makes a mistake ( calling a incorrect offside) that is not referred thereby rendering the technology quite subjective which defeats the purpose of fair play.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

You are just hurling around insults. Do everyone a favor and quit football since the game has been ruined. Be a pioneer instead of calling everyone stupid in every other post like a 10 year old. What a clown.

Yeh you’re right I’m the one with the insults...joker. Your side are so condescending & cant admit VAR has any flaws , do everyone else a favour & don’t be on a thread discussing VAR if you don’t like the facts .

 

[sullydnl]

Worth noting that the VAR doesn't have to agree with the ref's interpretation to let it pass, he just has to think it's close enough that the ref hasn't made a major error.

 

[sullydnl]

Any explanation why the linesman lifted his flag for a tight offside call on Martial (that wasn't offside it turned out) when they're specifically instructed not to do that anymore?

They're specifically instructed to do that at the WC and in the CL. The PL, in their infinite wisdom, decided to forgo that instruction. Probably so they can speed past those instances where a player is clearly offside.

 

[cvb]

Worth noting that the VAR doesn't have to agree with the ref's interpretation to let it pass, he just has to think it's close enough that the ref hasn't made a major error.

Also worth noting that replays show that Oliver wasn’t looking at the part of the penalty area when the offence occurred. So either the referee lied to VAR about what he’d seen, or told VAR he hadn’t seen it and Swarbrick is lying.

Why they can’t admit that someone made a mistake I don’t know, because that penalty will be given in other matches this season.

 

[BobbyManc]

Worth noting that the VAR doesn't have to agree with the ref's interpretation to let it pass, he just has to think it's close enough that the ref hasn't made a major error.

Erm, can someone please ask Swarbrick to actually watch the incident in question. Firstly, why would Rodri be expected to fall backwards unless he is specifically being pulled in that direction with considerable force? He's not. Lamela is holding him and pushing his weight onto him as they are both moving towards the ball. Secondly, the reason Rodri has no chance of contesting the ball is specifically because he is being held. Clown. This guy is a professional referee.

I'm no fan of VAR but I'm actually of the opinion that it was right to not overrule the ref's original decision. It was a penalty but for me VAR should only be intervening on clearer mistakes than that. The trouble is you can guarantee an identical incident to the Rodri one will be overruled by VAR at some point this season.

 

[Varun]

Well good job as you can’t come back with any valid argument to the fact that this great technology of VAR is some other guy looking at a replay. Cannot get quicker

You need to start posting without the incessant need to be condescending. Cut it out.

 

[andyox]

Erm, can someone please ask Swarbrick to actually watch the incident in question. Firstly, why would Rodri be expected to fall backwards unless he is specifically being pulled in that direction with considerable force? He's not. Lamela is holding him and pushing his weight onto him as they are both moving towards the ball. Secondly, the reason Rodri has no chance of contesting the ball is specifically because he is being held. Clown. This guy is a professional referee.

I'm no fan of VAR but I'm actually of the opinion that it was right to not overrule the ref's original decision. It was a penalty but for me VAR should only be intervening on clearer mistakes than that. The trouble is you can guarantee an identical incident to the Rodri one will be overruled by VAR at some point this season.

Haha it's laughable isn't it. It would be hard for Rodri to fall backwards when he's moving forwards and the defender fouling him has literally fallen on top of him. As for contesting the ball, that's irrelevant to the decision. It reminds me of the penalty Fernandinho gave away against Schalke last season in the CL, where the attacker was offside and would've been called offside if he had contested the ball, but because Fernandinho prevented him from contesting the ball, VAR deemed it a penalty regardless of the fact he would've been offside if he had reached the ball.

They'd have marginally more credibility if they actually admitted mistakes rather than sounding like Goebbels by defending VAR under all circumstances. It's contradictory to hear people say "VAR is going to get better" while all we hear from PGMOL is that VAR is working perfectly.

 

[sullydnl]

Erm, can someone please ask Swarbrick to actually watch the incident in question. Firstly, why would Rodri be expected to fall backwards unless he is specifically being pulled in that direction with considerable force? He's not. Lamela is holding him and pushing his weight onto him as they are both moving towards the ball. Secondly, the reason Rodri has no chance of contesting the ball is specifically because he is being held. Clown. This guy is a professional referee.

I'm no fan of VAR but I'm actually of the opinion that it was right to not overrule the ref's original decision. It was a penalty but for me VAR should only be intervening on clearer mistakes than that. The trouble is you can guarantee an identical incident to the Rodri one will be overruled by VAR at some point this season.

Particularly as (I suspect) you'll see the high threshold the PL has started with lowered after a while, as happened in with German VAR I believe. The referees will provide feedback based on their own reviews of incidents like this and if they report that they now believe their initial decision was wrong then the conclusion will be that VAR isn't supporting them sufficiently.

As far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping them from making such alterations mid-season either, so you could see rather different standards applied at both ends of the season.

 

[andyox]

Particularly as (I suspect) you'll see the high threshold the PL has started with lowered after a while, as happened in with German VAR I believe. The referees will provide feedback based on their own reviews of incidents like this and if they report that they now believe their initial decision was wrong then the conclusion will be that VAR isn't supporting them sufficiently.

As far as I'm aware there's nothing stopping them from making such alterations mid-season either, so you could see rather different standards applied at both ends of the season.

That would be completely unacceptable surely. I hate everything about VAR, but you can't change the rules halfway through the season, because that upsets what should be a level playing field over the season.

 

[yumtum]

Erm, can someone please ask Swarbrick to actually watch the incident in question. Firstly, why would Rodri be expected to fall backwards unless he is specifically being pulled in that direction with considerable force? He's not. Lamela is holding him and pushing his weight onto him as they are both moving towards the ball. Secondly, the reason Rodri has no chance of contesting the ball is specifically because he is being held. Clown. This guy is a professional referee.

I'm no fan of VAR but I'm actually of the opinion that it was right to not overrule the ref's original decision. It was a penalty but for me VAR should only be intervening on clearer mistakes than that. The trouble is you can guarantee an identical incident to the Rodri one will be overruled by VAR at some point this season.

So clearly a pen.

The problem with VAR isn't VAR itself, it's the people behind it, referees have always been crap, VAR is just going to highlight how stupid they are, Unfortunately VAR will fail because the standard of referees in this country is appalling.

Always remember Clattenburg say he wanted to create a "spectacle" in an interview, Unfortunately these guys think they're the stars, and the unbalanced nature of their refereeing will cause untold problems.

 

[sullydnl]

That would be completely unacceptable surely. I hate everything about VAR, but you can't change the rules halfway through the season, because that upsets what should be a level playing field over the season.

They wouldn't be changing the rules as such but rather the interpretation, something they do more often that you'd think regardless.

I seem to recall them doing something similar during the world cup, changing how they dealt with some aspect of the game (handballs? pulling in the box? something like that) as the tournament went on.

 

[BobbyManc]

So clearly a pen.

The problem with VAR isn't VAR itself, it's the people behind it, referees have always been crap, VAR is just going to highlight how stupid they are, Unfortunately VAR will fail because the standard of referees in this country is appalling.

Always remember Clattenburg say he wanted to create a "spectacle" in an interview, Unfortunately these guys think they're the stars, and the unbalanced nature of their refereeing will cause untold problems.

Speaking of him, I got sent a Paddy Power magazine recently, I think free with a newspaper, and there's an interview in there with Clattenburg where he gives a profile on all the current referees, including his personal opinion of them all. Sums him up. It's very crass and unprofessional. Makes clear who he does and does not like and who he thinks is crap, offering his view as if he's some kind of refereeing God. It does make you worry though if other referees share his kind of personality.

 

[RochaRoja]

They wouldn't be changing the rules as such but rather the interpretation, something they do more often that you'd think regardless.

I seem to recall them doing something similar during the world cup, changing how they dealt with some aspect of the game (handballs? pulling in the box? something like that) as the tournament went on.

Making a change such as that during a knockout tournament is different though. Each round is self contained so changes made between the rounds would still mean that every team still in the competition has been playing on a level playing field at each stage (theoretically speaking of course).

Spurs getting to play their away game against City with one interpretation of VAR and Liverpool having theirs with a different interpretation is certainly unfair in a sporting sense.

 

[arnie_ni]

Yup, on both ref went check VAR monitor then red cards. Initially given as yellows I think.

Yellow would have sufficed surely?

 

[MackRobinson]

Yeh you’re right I’m the one with the insults...joker. Your side are so condescending & cant admit VAR has any flaws , do everyone else a favour & don’t be on a thread discussing VAR if you don’t like the facts .

Look at your post history. I'm just returning the favor. The pros of VAR have been discussed ad nauseam (with facts), but you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and brand anyone who disagrees with you stupid. A little self-reflection my serve you well.

Of course VAR has flaws but like I said earlier (and you choose to ignore) technology implementations can be improved and are hardly ever flawless. But all this is wasted on you since your going to quit football because of VAR. I'm just saying why wait. Do it now.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Look at your post history. I'm just returning the favor. The pros of VAR have been discussed ad nauseam (with facts), but you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and brand anyone who disagrees with you stupid. A little self-reflection my serve you well.

Of course VAR has flaws but like I said earlier (and you choose to ignore) technology implementations can be improved and are hardly ever flawless. But all this is wasted on you since your going to quit football because of VAR. I'm just saying why wait. Do it now.

As you refuse to acknowledge that somebody looking at a replay cannot be quicker no point discussing it.

When did I say I’d quit football? Making things up eh. So no I won’t do it now ha. Leave the game to you lot. No thanks we’d be as popular as lawn bowls eventually

 

[lysglimt]

I am completely undecided over this. A part of me feels the football is being destroyed with the constant fear of having a goal overturned, another part of me feels football is destroyed because of poor decisions by the refs and cheating.

As much as I wanted Wolves' goal yesterday to be ruled out of offside - it would have been awful if that goal was ruled out because the upper body of one of their players was 5 cm offside.

So what I am trying to say is perhaps that I want VAR - but not in its present form ?

 

[pablo__p]

I'm a fan. Nani wouldnt have been sent off, had VAR been around

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I am completely undecided over this. A part of me feels the football is being destroyed with the constant fear of having a goal overturned, another part of me feels football is destroyed because of poor decisions by the refs and cheating.

As much as I wanted Wolves' goal yesterday to be ruled out of offside - it would have been awful if that goal was ruled out because the upper body of one of their players was 5 cm offside.

So what I am trying to say is perhaps that I want VAR - but not in its present form ?

I understand what you’re saying- I mean if VAR was to be a net benefit to the sport it would only be used in very exceptional circumstances for terrible decisions.

However they’ve put too much money & political capital into it now for it to ever be used sparingly, in fact it’ll be used more.

That horrible feeling of not being able to properly have that joy of a goal incase VAR picks it up? Get used to it until people start seeing sense & force the football authorities to get rid of it before it does too much damage.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I'm a fan. Nani wouldnt have been sent off, had VAR been around

I mean that totally depends. Would they have? Depends how stringent the ref looking at the replay is. Depends if that’s an action VAR is tasked to deliver at that time.

 

[MackRobinson]

As you refuse to acknowledge that somebody looking at a replay cannot be quicker no point discussing it.

When did I say I’d quit football? Making things up eh. So no I won’t do it now ha. Leave the game to you lot. No thanks we’d be as popular as lawn bowls eventually

Because speed is the only thing that matters. feck attempting to improve the accuracy of refereeing.

Well if you think the mere presence of VAR will ruin football you should stop watching now b/c it is hear to stay. That's my point.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Because speed is the only thing that matters. feck attempting to improve the accuracy of refereeing.

Well if you think the mere presence of VAR will ruin football you should stop watching now b/c it is hear to stay. That's my point.

It’s not all about an extra 3% accuracy rate. Fck me don’t you lot care about the passion & excitement of a game- that amazing moment of scoring a goal will now always be diluted until VAR confirms it. Yay.

VAR will make football worse & less enjoyable yes, but I’ll never stop watching it as I love it even if they do keek trying to chip away at the enjoyment factor.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Not a fan. It'll reduce the number of goals, and goals=excitement.

Erm, can someone please ask Swarbrick to actually watch the incident in question. Firstly, why would Rodri be expected to fall backwards unless he is specifically being pulled in that direction with considerable force? He's not. Lamela is holding him and pushing his weight onto him as they are both moving towards the ball. Secondly, the reason Rodri has no chance of contesting the ball is specifically because he is being held. Clown. This guy is a professional referee.

I'm no fan of VAR but I'm actually of the opinion that it was right to not overrule the ref's original decision. It was a penalty but for me VAR should only be intervening on clearer mistakes than that. The trouble is you can guarantee an identical incident to the Rodri one will be overruled by VAR at some point this season.

I always get the feeling that City get a raw deal from referees, VAR or otherwise. Maybe they want to balance the luck they got when City were bought with oil, maybe they want to make the league competitive by holding down a team which is basically playing with cheat codes, but City suffer the brunt of bad decisions.

 

[montpelier]

I think the Nani red would have stood - although it was a poor decision, the ref is at the letter of the Law thing again. And they hate foot up on the European mainland.

3-4 interesting points on the last page or so. I can't believe @BobbyManc does want the Rodri pen overturned though, .

Let me throw my ''feel for the game'' thing at it, to try & help him. #NowThatsWhatICallCondescending - .

The defender gets hold of Rodri straightaway & he never lets go. Why should he get any help? (in the 'subjective' sense).

Apart from our lot been crap, we're now asking 2 of them to be on the same page - they just want to cover each other's back innit? And Michael Oliver, I mean, I ask you.

I don't believe a word of what of what Swarbrick is saying.

 

[montpelier]

What about accepting that the VAR man is the senior Official. So for the Rodri pen, Henry handball etc. He presses the red button, and says ''I want a red card please'' or whatever & the on field chap just does as he is told.

Conclusive evidence on the tv supersedes the on field view. Stop trying to mesh the two together.

 

[BobbyManc]

I always get the feeling that City get a raw deal from referees, VAR or otherwise. Maybe they want to balance the luck they got when City were bought with oil, maybe they want to make the league competitive by holding down a team which is basically playing with cheat codes, but City suffer the brunt of bad decisions.

I'm glad someone else said it. I do think we definitely buck the trend of 'big team bias'. Nothing substantial or excessive but I always feel for us to get decisions they have to be stonewall. Then again, it's a universal law of football than the fans of every team believe they get treated unfairly by referees. I think Liverpool get treated favourably but I'm sure Liverpool fans would think the exact opposite.



It's like this. Somehow Oliver deemed this a Spurs free-kick. Yet he looked right at Lamela grab Rodri but deemed that to be fair and within the rules.

I can't believe @BobbyManc does want the Rodri pen overturned though, .

Let me throw my ''feel for the game'' thing at it, to try & help him. #NowThatsWhatICallCondescending - .

The defender gets hold of Rodri straightaway & he never lets go. Why should he get any help? (in the 'subjective' sense).

Because there's still an element of subjectivity to it. You can argue Rodri goes down too easy and he probably wasn't getting to the ball anyway. In the version of VAR I'd like to see, I don't believe it merited intervention. However, with the version of VAR the Premier League is going to get, I'm fairly confident I'm going to be annoyed that VAR decided to overlook this incident.

 

[Blueman]

I've spoken to a number of City fans since the game, and they've all echoed Gary Neville's "clear and obvious" comment regarding the earlier non-penalty when Michael Oliver chose to ignore the VAR alert that Rodri had been fouled inside the area.

We used to be told that poor decisions would "balance-out" over a season.
Now, we're told that VAR (which was supposedly installed to eradicate poor decisions) will "balance-out" over a season.

However, the main issue is the match-day experience, which so far has only affected City and Wolves.
When it happens at Old Trafford you will find a huge gulf between those who watched it on the sofa, and those who spent £100 to travel/attend the match

When it happens at OT or LFC VAR will be changed imo. Those fanbases will create so much noise about it that the authorities will not be allowed to brush it under the carpet the way they have with City/anyone else.

 

[mattsville]

The biggest immediate affect of VAR is that it sucks the joy out of a goal being scored, Martial scored last night and within a second you thought "VAR" instead of enjoying the great goal as it was a fast moving run and he might be offside. Even their goal a long range effort you think can't be reviewed, it was just a great shot, but it was reviewed, and for a pass in the the build up out wide, I don't know to see if yer man's knee cap was offside? It made no difference to the goal if it was. It is early on and it is defo going to come in for a lot of criticism, if it starts to stunt the enjoyment of watching PL football, there will be changes as the PL is all about marketing and making as much money as possible, money talks.

 

[montpelier]

Because there's still an element of subjectivity to it. You can argue Rodri goes down too easy and he probably wasn't getting to the ball anyway. In the version of VAR I'd like to see, I don't believe it merited intervention. However, with the version of VAR the Premier League is going to get, I'm fairly confident I'm going to be annoyed that VAR decided to overlook this incident.

Nearly everything is subjective then, on that basis. Which is where we are, you're saying?

I'd already be annoyed if I was you. Really would.

 

[Sultan]

When it happens at OT or LFC VAR will be changed imo. Those fanbases will create so much noise about it that the authorities will not be allowed to brush it under the carpet the way they have with City/anyone else.

Inferiority complex much?

 

[MackRobinson]

It’s not all about an extra 3% accuracy rate. Fck me don’t you lot care about the passion & excitement of a game- that amazing moment of scoring a goal will now always be diluted until VAR confirms it. Yay.

VAR will make football worse & less enjoyable yes, but I’ll never stop watching it as I love it even if they do keek trying to chip away at the enjoyment factor.

Speak for yourself. I can still celebrate goals when they are scored the same way as a spectator. The fact that my celebration may be premature doesn't negate that it already happened. If anything it adds more moments of raw emotion (like the City-Spurs champions league final).

I will say that I understand your frustration (even if I think you have a poor way of showing it) and VAR roll out hasn't been smooth. But that is natural for any technology and I think it will improve and a) the decisions will be quicker b) the rules for using it will be less ambiguous. I think you should give it time before writing it completely off.

 

[njred]

I understand what you’re saying- I mean if VAR was to be a net benefit to the sport it would only be used in very exceptional circumstances for terrible decisions.

However they’ve put too much money & political capital into it now for it to ever be used sparingly, in fact it’ll be used more.

That horrible feeling of not being able to properly have that joy of a goal incase VAR picks it up? Get used to it until people start seeing sense & force the football authorities to get rid of it before it does too much damage.

The Nfl advertising revenue has gone up during replays as has Mlb with its expanded(yes expanded) instant replay. If you don’t think it’s not about squeezing every last penny out of the sport then you’d be mistaken.