Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[Rafaeldagold]

Doesn't matter that it's a game and it wasn't a crime, it was a foul and the goal was called off as a result. End off.

You keep on mentioning 1mm offside like that's a thing. It isn't.

Did you wallow in your pity watching that match yesterday? No you didn't. You watched the match because you enjoyed it. The game isn't ruined.

It is a thing..what are you taking about? Rules are rules remember?

It’s made the game worse no matter which way you try to spin it it’s less enjoyable to watch now.

When Dan James scores last week I was happy & celebrated but not quite as much as I thought var would intervene. I’ll always love football but var is making it less enjoyable to watch

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It’s a game. It’s not a ‘crime’ if you were 1mm offside in the past or there was a slight foul in the build up, or if ball was close to going out of play 50 yards back so had to he reviewed.

It’s all so pathetic & now the game is ruined because of it. Good job

Not ruined in my eyes. I enjoy football as much as I did when there was no VAR.

 

[Zexstream]

Dont get the anti VAR feeling.

Its, all about fairness, had that Goal stood for City then they would have unfairly won. I prefer to win within the rules, not by cheating or getting lucky with a ref.

As for taking emotion out of football, i bet there was more emotion yesterday from both sets of fans because of VAR.


Long may VAR continue.

 

[DiceRoller]

You would rather the wrong decisions were made and stood? Very strange.

You’re not black and white at all

I’m saying bigger picture, I’d prefer the game wasn’t stopped so much, each decision questioned as it doesn’t flow naturally.
Hence the balance of goal line technology.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Dont get the anti VAR feeling.

Its, all about fairness, had that Goal stood for City then they would have unfairly won. I prefer to win within the rules, not by cheating or getting lucky with a ref.

As for taking emotion out of football, i bet there was more emotion yesterday from both sets of fans because of VAR.


Long may VAR continue.

So if it’s ‘all’ about fairness why not review every tackle, throw in, corner?

Why not just let var review the game & tell us who won a few days later?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Dont get the anti VAR feeling.

Its, all about fairness, had that Goal stood for City then they would have unfairly won. I prefer to win within the rules, not by cheating or getting lucky with a ref.

As for taking emotion out of football, i bet there was more emotion yesterday from both sets of fans because of VAR.


Long may VAR continue.

But then if VAR was being used correctly they were denied one penalty and if we are being pernickety about infringements Laporte was held back a 2nd time preventing him from reaching a ball. So you could flip about what you’re saying and say Spurs got away with one by cheating.

So with that being said is VAR doing its job fairly? Personally I wouldn’t have called Sterling offside for that goal last week. I wouldn’t have ruled out the goal yesterday. I would have given 1 penalty for the Lamela incident but I wouldn’t have given for the 2nd offence when Sanchez is holding his wrist and Laporte goes to ground.

You still need to use common sense.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

But then if VAR was being used correctly they were denied one penalty and if we are being pernickety about infringements Laporte was held back a 2nd time preventing him from reaching a ball. So you could flip about what you’re saying and say Spurs got away with one by cheating.

No don’t you get it? VAR is perfect & those against it are ridiculous & living in the Stone Age.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

This is exactly the problem! Aside from the awful new handball rule without VAR that goal stands. Robs fans and neutrals of an exciting last minute winner because a ball literally grazed a players arm.

The clear and obvious they said, absolute bollox. Only a matter of time before they review throw ins

Please, how often will last minute winners be ruled out? There'll still be plenty of them and those which are scored unfairly will be ruled out. You want more teams unfairly winning games by scoring from an offside position in the 95th minute? Liverpool almost won the lesgue last year because of how many offside goals they scored. The ball only got to Jesus yesterday because it hit Laporte on the arm. It's not as if every single winner will be ruled out. We've had VAR in MLS for 2 years now and we still celebrate like crazy as soon as the ball goes in. And then if it's ruled out we boo the ref but still move on. And in MLS the amount of time taken is horrific, looks way smoother in the Prem.

 

[Kag]

The decision is pernickety but, as per the rules, probably the correct one.

The biggest issue with VAR remains that the people spending the most money to watch the match are the people who have the least understanding of the drama unfolding. There has to be a way of informing the crowd with more clarity.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The decision is pernickety but, as per the rules, probably the correct one.

I mean this is true as the rule says something like any goal gained by an infringement or handball won’t be given.

However why isn’t that the same for defenders as in last week there was a penalty check and the ball clearly hit the defenders hand but it was deemed to be in a natural silhouette with his body. If that ball hits his ribs instead of his hand maybe that bounces to a striker to score a goal. Is that not defenders gaining an unfair advantage.

Now I don’t want to see every goal or penalty wiped out or given for slight grazes or unavoidable moments where the ball comes off your arm or hand but there needs to be fairness and that rule needs looking at because we’ve probably all played and know there are moments where you can’t avoid the ball hitting certain areas.

 

[redman5]

40 years ago, pop group 'Buggles' claimed that video killed the radio star. Is it doing the same to football ?

 

[Kag]

I mean this is true as the rule says something like any goal gained by an infringement or handball won’t be given.

However why isn’t that the same for defenders as in last week there was a penalty check and the ball clearly hit the defenders hand but it was deemed to be in a natural silhouette with his body. If that ball hits his ribs instead of his hand maybe that bounces to a striker to score a goal. Is that not defenders gaining an unfair advantage.

Now I don’t want to see every goal or penalty wiped out or given for slight grazes or unavoidable moments where the ball comes off your arm or hand but there needs to be fairness and that rule needs looking at because we’ve probably all played and know there are moments where you can’t avoid the ball hitting certain areas.

I’m inclined to agree but I think lots of people are directing blame the wrong way. It’s the rule people don’t like here, not VAR.

My issue with VAR is the complete lack of thought and respect for the people paying hundreds of quid to be there.

 

[kouroux]

Which brings us to the point..is it really worth it? Is it worth sucking the joy & raw emotions out of goals now knowing every one is being reviewed in case of a Mm offside or an accidental handball or something that happened in the build up?

Is it worth going from 95-98% accuracy when the game we all love is being changed beyond recognition?

Technology is good but not in football (except Goal line technology which is instant & unambiguous) which many don’t seem to understand.

To some it’s worth the game changing to get slighter better accuracy, for me never. I absolutely hate not being able to celebrate properly Incase var rules it out. Football is going to become sterile & lose its passion which is sad.

I have my opinion and I respect others who disagree with it, I think both camps have their own solid arguments. I'd rather see a game where teams don't win by wrong decisions or by something referees missed, I don't care about the joy of goal celebrations but that's me, I'm kinda grumpy.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I have no problem with the new handball rules. They were created so we don't see another "Henry" type goal like he scored against Ireland. This wasn't exactly the same but City still scored from a handball. My only problem is if VAR is supposed to help the refs make the right calls, then how come City wasn't given a pk in the first half when their player was wrestled to the ground during a corner kick...

 

[Anders80]

VAR itself is the problem- it just isn’t a system that works with football.

To me it works perfectly fine and even improves football.

No there were not massive amounts of decisions refs were getting wrong at all.

Yes, there were a lot of mistakes being made. Now, less mistakes are made.

Now we still have shitty decisions & a lot of wasted time & the enjoyment of a goal being diminished yet still with a game that isn’t ‘fair’ .

I enjoy proper goals. VAR ensure that's happening. I much prefer a couple of minutes of "wasted time" over the possibility of a team getting knocked out of a tournament because of a wrongful goal.

A spurs fan along with players in the pitch wouldn’t have battered an eye lid if it had counted as nobody even thought it wasn’t a perfectly good goal before our saviour var stepped up.

You should blame this on the rules, not on VAR.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I’m inclined to agree but I think lots of people are directing blame the wrong way. It’s the rule people don’t like here, not VAR.

My issue with VAR is the complete lack of thought and respect for the people paying hundreds of quid to be there.

I agree with this as well to an extent that the problem is with the rules and execution. If the ref could speak during it and if every ground had a big screens to show what they are looking at it might be better.

However I’m more in the class of I hate that we’ve gone down the path of VAR or how much influence it is having and how it is making me feel like I need to hold back the joy of a goal till I get the all clear from a check. Just kind of I terupts the excitement for me.

Soon United are undoubtedly going to be on the wrong end of a VAR decision and it’s going to suck. I’d rather we didn’t have it but if we have to have it, then it needs to be implemented and used a lot better than it has been so far.

 

[Dan_F]

It’s not meant to be perfect though. It’s meant to help the referee or VAR referee make a judgement. People may still end up disagreeing with a judgement.

Yeah I get that. I’m not sure if it would work better where you only check something that the ref is unsure about. It is a bit like rugby at the moment where it feels like every goal is being checked for a mistake. I’m not sure that’s what we want VAR to be.

 

[RochaRoja]

1 - Yes, very much. They do seem to be getting the objective ones (generally) right, though. (after a bit of rule tweaking). Although Utd at PSG and the CL Final still seem like nonsense to me. And the overhead kick the other night seemed to ignored on the grounds of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Lots are & will be right, though.

2 - this one doesn't bother the neutral tv audience, it's just enhanced dramatic viewing for them

I was even thinking (2) about the cricket last week when one umpire was just getting everything wrong, but the way the challenges go there, wasn't helping at all. But for 'the spectacle' - why should people sat at home care all that much? Stuff happening is good for the viewing figures, it doesn't really matter what it is.

And you did get to do a really great post about it.

As someone who absolutely fits the definition of armchair neutral, I hate it. I don't think it improves the game as an entertainment product at all. It's like that scene in Funny Games where one of the guys gets shot and the other one just picks up the remote and rewinds 20 seconds. It worked as a shocking moment because it totally subverted audience expectations but if it happened in half the films you watched nobody would bother getting invested in the narrative. We're just over a year into it going mainstream and the deus ex VAR twist novelty has already worn off. Football from now on is just post-Sixth Sense Shymalan.

I also think it adds an extra layer of confusion to the game which makes it less attractive to the casual fan. Just from anecdotal evidence, I found friends who never had much exposure to watching football before were able to pick up on the game on TV because it's essentially a very simple sport. Since VAR has become a thing, these friends spend a lot more time looking perplexed and asking me to explain what the hell just happened and why goals aren't goals.

 

[awop]

The decision is pernickety but, as per the rules, probably the correct one.

The biggest issue with VAR remains that the people spending the most money to watch the match are the people who have the least understanding of the drama unfolding. There has to be a way of informing the crowd with more clarity.

Alongside clearing up the rules, this has to be a priority. How come they don't have a direct feed plugged on the stadium screen that instantly shows the VAR screens ? Why aren't Sky & BT given direct access to that feed too. We had 45s of Pep hugging Aguero but we can't have an instant replay ?
As soon as that VAR button is pressed it should be sending a signal, the adverts around the pitch flash a VAR logo (of course we don't want to anger the moneyman), the stadium screen (if you have one) shows the replays and have 10 or 20 pre-written reasons to why the decision has been made. Goal or No Goal is not enough for the people in the stands, they don't have the explanantions and commentary.
There's so much than can easily be done if they wanted to. In la Liga you have ads where a fecking Nissan rolls onto the pitch with 3d effects, in Formula 1 you have brilliant visuals for pretty much everything etc...

Soon United are undoubtedly going to be on the wrong end of a VAR decision and it’s going to suck. I’d rather we didn’t have it but if we have to have it, then it needs to be implemented and used a lot better than it has been so far.

I think part of the issue is people still have the mindset of being on "the wrong end of a VAR decision". Nobody should feel penalised as much as being shown what truly happened.
Yesterday i thought Nelson made it 2-1 but then you clearly see he's off on VAR, i didn't start shouting and raging at the evidence. He's off, no goal, whatever, play on.

 

[RochaRoja]

Getting a VAR decision against you can't be worse than something like Lampard's goal against Germany being disallowed or Maradona's hand-ball standing.

Well those happen maybe once a decade at best (and one of which had already been removed to the game prior to VAR). Unwanted VAR interventions are happening multiple times each weekend.

 

[dove]

I’m 31 & not a boomer so.. once again a pathetic pro VAR argument.

Technology is good in many areas of life..implementing it in football isn’t..is that too hard to grasp?

In your opinion... is that too hard to grasp? Why can't you just realise that people have different opinions and many people think VAR is a big step into the right direction for football? But nah, it's easier to just bash everyone who think differently than you.

 

[duffer]

Well those happen maybe once a decade at best (and one of which had already been removed to the game prior to VAR). Unwanted VAR interventions are happening multiple times each weekend.

Unwanted by you, not by me.

 

[RochaRoja]

In your opinion... is that too hard to grasp? Why can't you just realise that people have different opinions and many people think VAR is a big step into the right direction for football? But nah, it's easier to just bash everyone who think differently than you.

Unwanted by you, not by me.

We live in the VAR era now. Subjectivity no longer exists.

 

[dove]

We live in the VAR era now. Subjectivity no longer exists.

Cry me a river.

 

[RochaRoja]

In la Liga you have ads where a fecking Nissan rolls onto the pitch with 3d effects

Game's gone.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They typically count getting a touch on the ball as "gaining possession", that's just the way they phrase it in the rules. There are other rules (offside maybe?) where the term has been used in the same way in the past, so you're not going to see similar incidents adjudicated any differently because of it.

The real problem with the new rule is that it punishes attackers for something it wouldn't punish defenders for, which is hardly ideal. Though even with defenders the only way to be sure you won't give a handball away is to keep your hands low and within the silhouette of your body.

That’s exactly my problem. The handball rule has been radically altered, for attackers and defenders, since VAR was introduced. Because VAR was introduced.

This is the sort of game-changing unintended consequence we’re dealing with. All because some people can’t accept that referees are fallible. VAR was supposed to make the existing rules more effectively implemented, not change them.

 

[RoadTrip]

Yeah I get that. I’m not sure if it would work better where you only check something that the ref is unsure about. It is a bit like rugby at the moment where it feels like every goal is being checked for a mistake. I’m not sure that’s what we want VAR to be.

I think it’s still relatively new in football. Over time I’d like to think they’ll work to get it better and figure out when and how to use it. It’s like the NFL, which has video refereeing for some time. But still ends up tweaking the rules and implementation each year. I don’t think it’ll ever be exactly perfect, but in my view, what is for sure is that the game will be better for it and it’s use is long overdue. Hopefully, though, they aren’t as stubborn with accepting mistakes and tweaking its use, as they were with getting it in in the first place.

 

[RoadTrip]

That’s exactly my problem. The handball rule has been radically altered, for attackers and defenders, since VAR was introduced. Because VAR was introduced.

This is the sort of game-changing unintended consequence we’re dealing with. All because some people can’t accept that referees are fallible. VAR was supposed to make the existing rules more effectively implemented, not change them.

I don’t think you can say it’s been changed solely for the purposes of VAR.

 

[RoadTrip]

They typically count getting a touch on the ball as "gaining possession", that's just the way they phrase it in the rules. There are other rules (offside maybe?) where the term has been used in the same way in the past, so you're not going to see similar incidents adjudicated any differently because of it.

The real problem with the new rule is that it punishes attackers for something it wouldn't punish defenders for, which is hardly ideal. Though even with defenders the only way to be sure you won't give a handball away is to keep your hands low and within the silhouette of your body.

I might be wrong but doesn’t a defender also get punished in exactly the same way if they prevent a goal with an accidental hand ball?

Edit: I guess the difference is in the build up - in the way the goal was disallowed yesterday, there wouldn’t have been a penalty if it was the defender who accidentally hand balled it.

It’s a valid point that hand ball was only given yesterday with hindsight that it went in. If it had gone wide it wouldn’t be hand ball.

Perhaps the rule needs refining if someone scores with a hand, accidentally or not.

 

[Tony Babangida]

It’s made the game worse no matter which way you try to spin it it’s less enjoyable to watch now.

When Dan James scores last week I was happy & celebrated but not quite as much as I thought var would intervene. I’ll always love football but var is making it less enjoyable to watch

Yeah I thought Rashford was going to be called offside, so didn’t really celebrate. VAR for me is detracting from the game. Football was great before VAR, and I don’t think it was needed.

I doubt it will ever go away now we have it.

 

[Anders80]

Game's gone.

Game's improved.

I think we can all agree to disagree. However, the poll currently shows >60% in favor of VAR and <23% against. Also let's not forget that this is still very new and there will probably be some improvements ahead.

 

[sullydnl]

That’s exactly my problem. The handball rule has been radically altered, for attackers and defenders, since VAR was introduced. Because VAR was introduced.

This is the sort of game-changing unintended consequence we’re dealing with. All because some people can’t accept that referees are fallible. VAR was supposed to make the existing rules more effectively implemented, not change them.

Was it actually introduced because of VAR though?

It's important to keep in mind that referees don't directly interpet the rules of the game but rather follow longer form interpretations and guidelines issued to them by IFAB, which can change season on season without the rules themselves being altered.

According to David Ellary (IFAB technical director) the rule change was made to reflect how games were already being refereed as per IFAB interpretations. He pointed to Neymar's goal in 2015 CL final (which was disallowed after the ball accidentally hit his hand) as an example of an incident that was both the "correct" call as far as IFAB were concerned and in keeping with how referees were now de facto enforcing the handball rule, despite it technically being against what (up until now) was the official rule.

If the game was already being widely refereed in that way four years ago then it hardly synchs with the idea that it being changed now is simply a reaction to the introduction of VAR.

It's not like the vagaries and shifting interpretations of the handball rule weren't a longstanding issue before then either. I have no doubt that VAR was a catalyst for the rule change but it certainly didn't create the problem that is being addressed.

 

[stepic]

That’s exactly my problem. The handball rule has been radically altered, for attackers and defenders, since VAR was introduced. Because VAR was introduced.

This is the sort of game-changing unintended consequence we’re dealing with. All because some people can’t accept that referees are fallible. VAR was supposed to make the existing rules more effectively implemented, not change them.

Do you have any evidence that the rule was changed because of VAR?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do you have any evidence that the rule was changed because of VAR?

No idea what sort of “evidence” you’re looking for but I sure as shit don’t think it’s a coincidence that the handball rule has changed radically in the last 12-18 months - at exactly the same time that VAR was being rolled out - having gone largely unchanged in the previous several decades.

 

[bleedred]

Well yes because refs have a certain level of discretion when it comes to pulling in the box they always have. That sort of challenge happens in every game. If they were to over rule the ref on that kind of decision then every game would have a pen for pulling in the box.

This is one of those common sense calls that you guys like to claim. Hopefully they will change the rules to be more clear about puing in the box.

Then do it. Isn’t the point of VAR to correct the mistake after all?

Honestly, this is the problem. People are so hellbent on defending VAR that even a clear penalty such as that is now considered subjective. Why is it hard for you lot to say for once, VAR fecked it up, rather than finding every single excuse to defend it.

 

[bleedred]

Nobody thought. feck me. It isn't a crime if you don't get caught?

Lamela got away with one!

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Game's improved.

I think we can all agree to disagree. However, the poll currently shows >60% in favor of VAR and <23% against. Also let's not forget that this is still very new and there will probably be some improvements ahead.

Honestly don’t give a fcuk about a poll. People voted for brexit which is insanity.

Tyranny of the majority.

 

[MackRobinson]

I’ve given about 25 different angles to my opinion. The rebuttal is always the same: the rules are the rules. To which my response has consistently been: grow a pair or a brain.

What a load of shit. Your posts in this thread are written like a kid who's parents took their toys from them. And no the rebuttal isn't always the same. I suggest you reread the replies and quit burying your head in the sand.

 

[MackRobinson]

Honestly don’t give a fcuk about a poll. People voted for brexit which is insanity.

Tyranny of the majority.

Comparing VAR to Brexit. Utter idiocy

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Comparing VAR to Brexit. Utter idiocy

Well wasn’t comparing it to brexit if you were intelligent enough.

I said just said most because the majority like something doesn’t mean it isn’t fcking shite