Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[Rish Sawhney]

People are forgetting that rules are not the ultimate arbiter of what the game should be. Rules are just an approximation of the informal stable paradigm set by iterated playing of the sport over the last 100 years or so. The current instanciation of the rules are just an approximation decided by a (usually very corrupt) governing body.

Thats the reason I'm against VAR - its not at all a gripe against technology or old people yelling at the sky (I'm fairly young btw) - because more than actions being right by the official rules of the game, what matters is the unofficial spirit of the game which may or may not agree with the rules. And that's why I like the element of a human referee who has to make a snap judgement without relying on a replay and slow motion.

 

[cyberman]

No single team and no single result matters that much. If Spurs don’t go on so what? The reasonable fans are smart enough to realize that offsides call is negligible and no advantage was gained. The agony adds to their overall story. I do understand that is a little tougher to grasp, so I would never hold you to that.

The sport has gone from one governed by people with a reasonable margin of error to one governed by cameras and minuscule technicalities.

What kind of bullshit logic is this? Of course there's advantages to being offside.
Im sure there's plenty of matches on ESPN classic that backwards fans can watch, they'll have tackles from behind and ruptured Achilles galore to keep them happy.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Changed my vote to hate it. If we got a decision like that against us in a final for example I would explode.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

What kind of bullshit logic is this? Of course there's advantages to being offside.
Im sure there's plenty of matches on ESPN classic that backwards fans can watch, they'll have tackles from behind and ruptured Achilles galore to keep them happy.

Sorry bud, if you think a millimeter matters in terms of offsides, you’re fecking clueless.

 

[njred]

People are forgetting that rules are not the ultimate arbiter of what the game should be. Rules are just an approximation of the informal stable paradigm set by iterated playing of the sport over the last 100 years or so. The current instanciation of the rules are just an approximation decided by a (usually very corrupt) governing body.

Thats the reason I'm against VAR - its not at all a gripe against technology or old people yelling at the sky (I'm fairly young btw) - because more than actions being right by the official rules of the game, what matters is the unofficial spirit of the game which may or may not agree with the rules. And that's why I like the element of a human referee who has to make a snap judgement without relying on a replay and slow motion.

Bingo. Isn't this the point of sports played by humans. I really do think the tech crowd would have no issue with not having refs at all and using technology just to get the calls correct. Again, if refs got every single call correct some would still be in favor of Var instead. That's an issue.

 

[Womp]

Changed my vote to hate it. If we got a decision like that against us in a final for example I would explode.

Alternatively, if that goal happened against us and wasn't overriden by VAR, you'd probably feel even more upset.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Alternatively, if that goal happened against us and wasn't overriden by VAR, you'd probably feel even more upset.

No, you would. Normal people can handle it.

 

[Womp]

No, you would. Normal people can handle it.

You're the minority here. That makes you the exception. Don't let basic statistics get in the way of your hissy fit though.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Alternatively, if that goal happened against us and wasn't overriden by VAR, you'd probably feel even more upset.

I wouldnt. I honestly feel that goal should have counted.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

You're the minority here. That makes you the exception. Don't let basic statistics get in the way of your hissy fit though.

What makes you think the majority are normal?

 

[Anustart89]

I wouldnt. I honestly feel that goal should have counted.

So do I, and I'm a big VAR supporter. I'm not saying "VAR is stupid", though. The new handball law is.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

If its against the rules then whats the problem? City even got to celebrate it properly for those who claim that VAR takes away moments.

 

[NecssryEvil]

With the rules being applied correctly...?

(Old man yells at cloud)

Indeed

That’s what I am fecking saying dude, it starts with a couple things they want to correct but then someone misses a call, the fans scream and yell and then the next year they add that to the things to look at. Then again the next year, and the next. Every time a rule is not enforced by the ref during the game, add it to the list of things to look at. It’s damned near ruined throwball for me, don’t want to see it happen here. I thought it would be restricted to changing things the ref missed like the hand of god goal, but it’s already being used to re-referee the games and it’s just going to get worse from here.

 

[Womp]

What makes you think the majority are normal?

The literal definition of normal does.

 

[Womp]

I wouldnt. I honestly feel that goal should have counted.

It shouldn't have though, because it wasn't a legitimate goal. This needs to be put in context too, if we are going to start bending the rules and allowing rule breaking, where do we draw the line? This was a potentially pointless game involving rivals of ours. What if this was to happen in a CL final? Which can at times be decided by inches?

I'd wager that if we were to lose a CL final to a goal that was incorrectly called, you'd have people on here and on social media losing it. There's no reason why we shouldn't take advantage of technology. It's not perfect and I agree there's things that need to be improved though, mainly the grey area regarding the interpretation of rules.

 

[Womp]

That’s what I am fecking saying dude, it starts with a couple things they want to correct but then someone misses a call, the fans scream and yell and then the next year they add that to the things to look at. Then again the next year, and the next. Every time a rule is not enforced by the ref during the game, add it to the list of things to look at. It’s damned near ruined throwball for me, don’t want to see it happen here. I thought it would be restricted to changing things the ref missed like the hand of god goal, but it’s already being used to re-referee the games and it’s just going to get worse from here.

So you hate VAR because of this potential make belief scenario occuring? Okay then.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

So do I, and I'm a big VAR supporter. I'm not saying "VAR is stupid", though. The new handball law is.

Im not saying VAR is stupid either I guess. And I havent read the new handball law. But after watching this game for most of my life that goal looks like it ended up in the net just like it has for the past 150 years.

 

[awop]

https://withoutvar.com/
I've been switching between the tables for hours because i'm a knobhead and a dork. It truly is beautiful to see teams move up and down.

 

[Grylte]

I love var

 

[Grylte]

In the ass

 

[stepic]

Im not saying VAR is stupid either I guess. And I havent read the new handball law. But after watching this game for most of my life that goal looks like it ended up in the net just like it has for the past 150 years.

you should probably read the new handball law then. It’s not var’s fault.

 

[Foxbatt]

The main reason they brought this new rule in my opinion is to cut the ambiguity in handling the ball by the attacking side. Now there is no room for any ambiguity. If it touches the hand of any player of the attacking side then it is a handball. Simple enough. We have to agree the deflection on the arm of Laporte did fall kindly to Jesus. I do not think he need that kind of intervention anyway.

 

[NecssryEvil]

So you hate VAR because of this potential make belief scenario occuring? Okay then.

What make believe scenario? I talked about the limited scope the NFL IR started with and the way it has escalated every time a call is missed and fans/media went nuts. It’s getting fecking ridiculous and destroying the game for many people.

 

[Carolina Red]

What make believe scenario? I talked about the limited scope the NFL IR started with and the way it has escalated every time a call is missed and fans/media went nuts. It’s getting fecking ridiculous and destroying the game for many people.

It isn’t “every time a call is missed”. PI’s and no-calls should have always been reviewed anyway, and the Saints game was the straw the broke the back. The owners overwhelmingly (all but 1) approved the change.

 

[Anders80]

It drives me insane when 50 000 people in a stadium and millions of viewers at home know that a team got a wrongful penalty because of a dive, and the one man making all the decisions is the only person that doesn't know what actually happened. It rewards unfair play, and the stupidity behind that whole thing has been bugging the hell out of me my entire life.

VAR is the best damn thing that's happened to football in my lifetime. Finally there's more correct decisions in what is still the most cheater-filled and unfair sport in the world.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

It drives me insane when 50 000 people in a stadium and millions of viewers at home know that a team got a wrongful penalty because of a dive, and the one man making all the decisions is the only person that doesn't know what actually happened. It rewards unfair play, and the stupidity behind that whole thing has been bugging the hell out of me my entire life.

VAR is the best damn thing that's happened to football in my lifetime. Finally there's more correct decisions in what is still the most cheater-filled and unfair sport in the world.

^^^a knobjob

 

[NecssryEvil]

It isn’t “every time a call is missed”. PI’s and no-calls should have always been reviewed anyway, and the Saints game was the straw the broke the back. The owners overwhelmingly (all but 1) approved the change.

Ok, my bad for saying “every”, too strong a word. You are right, the scope of the NFL IR has been exactly the same as it has been from the start until this offseason when they made one change only because the owners thought it was necessary.

 

[RedFish]

It drives me insane when 50 000 people in a stadium and millions of viewers at home know that a team got a wrongful penalty because of a dive, and the one man making all the decisions is the only person that doesn't know what actually happened. It rewards unfair play, and the stupidity behind that whole thing has been bugging the hell out of me my entire life.

VAR is the best damn thing that's happened to football in my lifetime. Finally there's more correct decisions in what is still the most cheater-filled and unfair sport in the world.

Unfair? All teams are subject to the same variability. That actually makes the game less predictable and IMO all the more exciting for it. Every supporter throughout a season would be guaranteed to experience luck, joy, injustice. Now it's just VARy boring.

 

[bleedred]

Its not VAR's fault, its the handball rule.
Its not VAR's fault that the offside rule is very obscure.
Its not VAR's fault that most fouls in football are subjective.

But if a ref makes a wrong decision, "Feckin corrupt", "useless cnut" etc..,

 

[bleedred]

https://withoutvar.com/
I've been switching between the tables for hours because i'm a knobhead and a dork. It truly is beautiful to see teams move up and down.

Does that include the penalty which should have been awarded to City though?.

 

[TheRedHearted]

From what I see the ball hits Laportes hand and falls perfectly to Gabriel Jesus. Is there any video evidence contrary to that?

As for the penalties that weren’t given- did they go to VAR?

 

[Wumminator]

You're the minority here. That makes you the exception. Don't let basic statistics get in the way of your hissy fit though.

That’ll change throughout the season. I was sort of accepting of VAR until I saw what it would be. Absolute nonsense that is going to a nightmare for fans going to matches.

 

[P4rthen0n]

Bingo. Isn't this the point of sports played by humans. I really do think the tech crowd would have no issue with not having refs at all and using technology just to get the calls correct. Again, if refs got every single call correct some would still be in favor of Var instead. That's an issue.

The only reason it has come to this (VAR) is precisely because refs fail so many critical calls.

We have the technology to get it right. We don't need to sacrifice fairness in the game because of the "human error".

 

[bleedred]

So you hate VAR because of this potential make belief scenario occuring? Okay then.

As a matter of fact, in other sports it keeps getting expanded to different scenarios with every year or improvement.

Here's a comparison for you in Rugby,
2015 WC 115 referrals
2011 WC 51
2007 WC 47
2003 WC 36

Its not a make believe scenario. Both the number of reviews and the things for which review can be used is obviously going to expand if other sports are any indicators.

 

[bleedred]

From what I see the ball hits Laportes hand and falls perfectly to Gabriel Jesus. Is there any video evidence contrary to that?

As for the penalties that weren’t given- did they go to VAR?

Apparently, its a subjective decision. So VAR cant intervene. The VAR looking at it didn't think it was "Clear and Obvious".

 

[Womp]

As a matter of fact, in other sports it keeps getting expanded to different scenarios with every year or improvement.

Here's a comparison for you in Rugby,
2015 WC 115 referrals
2011 WC 51
2007 WC 47
2003 WC 36

Its not a make believe scenario. Both the number of reviews and the things for which review can be used is obviously going to expand if other sports are any indicators.

Other sports have implemented these change years earlier, with football being reluctant, so to suggest they are following suit with what other sports have done is hardly based on fact.

 

[Waywestofthere]

You two do know that PI wasn’t reviewable under last year’s rules, right?

Sure. I should have said blown non-call. My problem is IR hasn’t made the experience better. The best example is the stupidity over what is a catch. They’ve basically had to rewrite the rules because now the game is being reviewed in super slow motion. Those revisions haven’t improved my experience. I’m sure we will get to a similar point with VAR—rules being refined to a unreasonable point because it is being reviewed in stop motion. I’m still going to watch, I just don’t think it’s better.

 

[P4rthen0n]

The main reason they brought this new rule in my opinion is to cut the ambiguity in handling the ball by the attacking side. Now there is no room for any ambiguity. If it touches the hand of any player of the attacking side then it is a handball. Simple enough. We have to agree the deflection on the arm of Laporte did fall kindly to Jesus. I do not think he need that kind of intervention anyway.

Since forever, we've always known that accidental hand touches are not fouls.
This new handball rule changed that to avoid ambiguity, but in my opinion that is not a good enough reason to change something so fundamental about football as "accidental touches with the hand are not fouls". It's not good enough.
This is a bad rule that is bringing unecessary problems to the game.
It's not VAR's fault btw.

 

[Cloud7]

The anti VAR crowd in this thread seem to be growing more and more unhinged.

 

[bleedred]

Other sports have implemented these change years earlier, with football being reluctant, so to suggest they are following suit with what other sports have done is hardly based on fact.

And its not a make believe scenario either like you suggest. There are already calls to expand the VAR to check GK staying on the line after midweek. So I don't think its unlikely that VAR will be limited to the same scenarios. Its MORE LIKELY to expand to other scenarios.