Germany - Euro 2021 discussion

[Jaxa]

The only player from the U21s that would help us is Baku.

We don't have any other options apart from Volland who was strangely used as a LWB when he came on.

For all the talent the Germans are known for producing it’s strange the striker department is on a shortage of elite strikers at least,

Although I think that says more about the inevitable death of your traditional #9 Striker role these days

Bar Lewandowski, Haaland , Benzema and Cavani you don’t really have much more around, Haaland being the only new generation of striker, the rest are just hybrids, more of an all around “attacker”

 

[Dante]

The Gundogan+Kroos double pivot looks very vulnerable. It's Germany's Gerrard+Lampard conundrum.

Bruno will have a field day if Low sticks with it.

 

[UweBein]

Müller should not play. The same is true for Hummels. Kimich in that position was not good. See us losing against Portugal.

 

[saivet]

If Kimmich plays in midfield, who goes to right back? If it's Emre Can, I understand why they would keep Kimmich as a RB.

 

[Hansi Fick]

If Kimmich plays in midfield, who goes to right back? If it's Emre Can, I understand why they would keep Kimmich as a RB.

The solution obviously would be, Sülinho at right back

 

[Zehner]

Generally the 3-4-3 is a good formation and it suits various German players. But we still lack the right material on some key positions. Very questionable to not call up Baku when he intended to play this way. This would've freed up Kimmich for the CM and we need somebody with energy besides Kroos if we play this formation. It would've allowed Löw to just mirror Chelsea with Jorginho (Kroos), Kante (Kimmich), Chilwell (Gosens), James (Baku, Mount (Gündogan), Havertz and Werner. Anyway, he has to play Müller now and he doesn't fit into the 3-4-3 either and keeps Werner out of the team.

IMO he should switch to a 4-3-3 now and just do what Pep did with Cancelo. Play Kroos in the Rodri role, let Kimmich take over a CM position in possession and Gündogan push higher. His biggest strength this season was his goal threat when he attacked the box and he said himself how important it was for him that Cancelo and Zinchenko took over his spot to give him more freedom in attack. Of course you need an attacking player to hold the width, then, so maybe bring in Sané (although he's playing terribly) or use Werner wide. Not optimal but I think it would improve us generally. You could even play a 4-2-3-1 and bring Müller in his favourite position behind the striker.

Maybe:

-Kimmich-Hummels-Rüdiger-Gosens/Can-
-Kroos-Gündogan
-Gnabry-Müller-Sané
-Werner/Havertz-

Or

-Kimmich-Hummels-Rüdiger-Gosens/Can-
-Kroos-
-Gündogan-Müller/Goretzka-
-Gnabry-Havertz/Werner-Sané-

And as I said, important to consider that the fullbacks play "invertedly".

 

[do.ob]

This is classic Löw. He wasted three years of preparation and now die Mannschaft lacks cohesion at the back (the 0:1 being a prime example, with Hernandez left completely unmarked) and to everyone's surprise two friendlies against Latvia and Denmark weren't enough to fully re-integrate Müller after all. Kroos gets to play holding midfielder like it's 2018 again and the only proper RWB at Löw's dispoal never even got an invite.

 

[Hansi Fick]

You could even play a 4-2-3-1 and bring Müller in his favourite position behind the striker.

In which all of Kimmich, Goretzka, Sané and Gnabry could play their accustomed positions too, in a system that the best German team, that also happens to provide the NT spine, has successfully played for over a decade.
Yes, you could even do that, as crazy as it sounds.

 

[JPRouve]

This is classic Löw. He wasted three years of preparation and now die Mannschaft lacks cohesion at the back (the 0:1 being a prime example, with Hernandez left completely unmarked) and to everyone's surprise two friendlies against Latvia and Denmark weren't enough to fully re-integrate Müller after all. Kroos gets to play holding midfielder like it's 2018 again and the only proper RWB at Löw's dispoal never even got an invite.

Can't Klostermann play as a RWB/RB while Kimmich moves to center midfield?

 

[do.ob]

Can't Klostermann play as a RWB/RB while Kimmich moves to center midfield?

Klostermann probably played more at CB than RB in the last couple of years. I could see a lopsided setup, back four, the perhaps too attacking (for a LB) Gosens on the left, balanced out by Klostermann as a much more defensive minded player on the right. But not really as a wing back, even with Kimmich the right side was too easy to defend.

 

[JPRouve]

Klostermann probably played more at CB than RB in the last couple of years. I could see a lopsided setup, back four, the perhaps too attacking Gosens on the left, balanced out by Klostermann as a much more defensive minded player. But not really as a wing back, even with Kimmich the right side was too easy to defend.

That's what I had in mind, Klostermann in Pavard's role for Bayern even though he is as good going forward. As you said you have Bayern as a template and almost all the players to fill the holes outside of a german Lewandowski.

Edit: Sorry it's Hansi Flick that mentioned Bayern.

 

[OutlawGER]

Müller should not play. The same is true for Hummels. Kimich in that position was not good. See us losing against Portugal.

Having a meltdown?

There was nothing displaying in that Portugal team against Hungary, that scares me the slightest. We just need more tooth going forward, then we can beat any team.

 

[hellhunter]

Having a meltdown?

There was nothing displaying in that Portugal team against Hungary, that scares me the slightest. We just need more tooth going forward, then we can beat any team.

If we scored more goals, we would win more games. More news at 1.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

If this Portugal side clicks as they did for the last 10 minutes vs Hungary, I wouldn't be surprised with a bashing vs this german side.
They look good on paper but there's something about them as a team that feels underwhelming.

With that said, 0-0 draw incoming

 

[Piratesoup]

There was nothing displaying in that Portugal team against Hungary, that scares me the slightest. We just need more tooth going forward, then we can beat any team.

What makes you think that after 3 years of awfulness the team can grow teeth now?
We'll make it out of the group stage because of the farcical new progression rules, but I think we're done after that. This team just isn't ready to be great, not with Löw at the helm.

 

[do.ob]

Having a meltdown?

There was nothing displaying in that Portugal team against Hungary, that scares me the slightest. We just need more tooth going forward, then we can beat any team.

Portugal play with two proper defensive midfielders. That alone completely nullifies Löw's "system".

 

[Piratesoup]

Which user on here thought it would be a good idea to play Gündogan up front? Because I think that might've been Löw's scret Caf account.

 

[OutlawGER]

Portugal play with two proper defensive midfielders. That alone completely nullifies Löw's "system".

If France with Kante etc. can't shut it down, Portugal won't.

It seems we have seen completely different games yesterday. France did not look like the favorite and world champion to me, they looked to me like a massive underdog, passionately parking the bus and shitting their pants (wasted time since minute 10) against a superior side and rely only on the counter with a player like Mbappe. And sneaked a lucky 0-1 through an own goal in the end.


If anything, especially after the last 3 years, that game makes me confident for the games to come. And if we meet France again this tournament, we don't pull an own goal and we'll beat them comfortably.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Having a meltdown?

There was nothing displaying in that Portugal team against Hungary, that scares me the slightest. We just need more tooth going forward, then we can beat any team.

I wouldn't use a game where the Portugal team overall had a meh performance as a benchmark of what they can do. They were obviously playing very nervously in the final third vs a team that was trying to force a draw or a lucky goal on the counter.

If they start clicking as they did in the final 10 minutes vs Hungary, any team will struggle against this Portugal side.

 

[hellhunter]

If France with Kante etc. can't shut it down, Portugal won't.

It seems we have seen completely different games yesterday. France did not look like the favorite and world champion to me, they looked to me like a massive underdog, passionately parking the bus and shitting their pants (wasted time since minute 10) against a superior side and rely only on the counter with a player like Mbappe. And sneaked a lucky 0-1 through an own goal in the end.


If anything, especially after the last 3 years, that game makes me confident for the games to come. And if we meet France again this tournament, we don't pull an own goal and we'll beat them comfortably.

There are biased views and then there's this.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

If France with Kante etc. can't shut it down, Portugal won't.

It seems we have seen completely different games yesterday. France did not look like the favorite and world champion to me, they looked to me like a massive underdog, passionately parking the bus and shitting their pants (wasted time since minute 10) against a superior side and rely only on the counter with a player like Mbappe. And sneaked a lucky 0-1 through an own goal in the end.


If anything, especially after the last 3 years, that game makes me confident for the games to come. And if we meet France again this tournament, we don't pull an own goal and we'll beat them comfortably.

There's no way this German side is superior to this France side. Tbh I felt like France never left second or third gear for some reason

 

[Zehner]

In which all of Kimmich, Goretzka, Sané and Gnabry could play their accustomed positions too, in a system that the best German team, that also happens to provide the NT spine, has successfully played for over a decade.
Yes, you could even do that, as crazy as it sounds.

It's the obvious choice, yes, but also not as easy as it sounds. Lewandowski is key to the system and we don't even have a proper central striker. To be honest I think integrating Müller isn't that easy because of this. Think he's important as a leader on the pitch but he also needs a number 9 before him while Chelsea played great without one in the 3-4-3 with Havertz and Werner. Also worth mentioning that Rüdiger played much better in a three at the back system because it allowed him to press in midfield without leaving the defense exposed.

I think something like this would've definitely worked as well:

--------------------Werner------------------
-----Gündogan-------Havertz/Gnabry--
-Gosens--Kroos-Kimmich-Baku-
------Rüdiger-Hummels-Ginter---

 

[Zehner]

There's no way this German side is superior to this France side. Tbh I felt like France never left second or third gear for some reason

Not saying Germany looked great but France definitely didn't either. They were lucky to score and on the back foot most of the game. According to my app they had 0.26 xG to 0.87 xG. Mbappe and Pogba were great individually but as a team I'm not overly impressed by them.

 

[hellhunter]

Not saying Germany looked great but France definitely didn't either. They were lucky to score and on the back foot most of the game. According to my app they had 0.26 xG to 0.87 xG. Mbappe and Pogba were great individually but as a team I'm not overly impressed by them.

They scored two close offside goals, should have had a penalty and Rüdiger not being sent off is very fortunate.

 

[Zehner]

They scored two close offside goals, should have had a penalty and Rüdiger not being sent off is very fortunate.

Can you point me to the scenes in which a penalty should have been given or in which Rüdiger should've been sent off? I can't recall them but wouldn't rule out that I missed them considering I was at public viewing for the first time in ages

Overall, I think they didn't really create many dangerous situations. The two dangerous ones were offside and the Mbappe goal was mostly individual brillance by Pogba and Mbappe. I just don't think you can argue a team creating 0.26 worth in xG had a great game.

 

[hellhunter]

Can you point me to the scenes in which a penalty should have been given or in which Rüdiger should've been sent off? I can't recall them but wouldn't rule out that I missed them considering I was at public viewing for the first time in ages

Overall, I think they didn't really create many dangerous situations. The two dangerous ones were offside and the Mbappe goal was mostly individual brillance by Pogba and Mbappe. I just don't think you can argue a team creating 0.26 worth in xG had a great game.

Hummels tackle on Mbappe was brilliant, still hit his leg going through Mbappe before touching the ball, so penalty in my book.

Rüdiger fecking bit Pogba.

 

[romufc]

They scored two close offside goals, should have had a penalty and Rüdiger not being sent off is very fortunate.

Scoring offside goals doesn't mean you deserve more goals? It is actually credit to the defending team for holding a good line.

 

[hellhunter]

Scoring offside goals doesn't mean you deserve more goals? It is actually credit to the defending team for holding a good line.

Of course, but it speaks against the notion that France won due to luck in my opinion. Germany was fortunate in some scenes, France not so much.

Apart from the OG, that is.

 

[Zehner]

Hummels tackle on Mbappe was brilliant, still hit his leg going through Mbappe before touching the ball, so penalty in my book.

Rüdiger fecking bit Pogba.

I see but I don't think it was a penalty. Just googled the Rüdiger/Pogba scene. Come on..

That being said, Mbappe exposed Hummels' lack of pace a few times but this had to do with Germany needing a goal after Hummels putting one in the back of his own net. Still not impressed by France, they were too harmless overall.

 

[mitchmouse]

The Gundogan+Kroos double pivot looks very vulnerable. It's Germany's Gerrard+Lampard conundrum.

Bruno will have a field day if Low sticks with it.

poor Bruno looks shot.... he needs a very long rest, totally away from the game for at least a month

 

[acnumber9]

If France with Kante etc. can't shut it down, Portugal won't.

It seems we have seen completely different games yesterday. France did not look like the favorite and world champion to me, they looked to me like a massive underdog, passionately parking the bus and shitting their pants (wasted time since minute 10) against a superior side and rely only on the counter with a player like Mbappe. And sneaked a lucky 0-1 through an own goal in the end.


If anything, especially after the last 3 years, that game makes me confident for the games to come. And if we meet France again this tournament, we don't pull an own goal and we'll beat them comfortably.

You definitely didn’t watch the same game anybody else did. France had Germany where they wanted them. They had the lead and just let Germany huff and puff their way to a grand total of one shot on target. How you can watch that game and think you’ll beat France comfortably next time you play them beggars belief.

 

[mitchmouse]

Lots of people saying france were going to cruise the game - and all it came down to was an own goal. I'd still be surprised if germany didn't make it out of the group

 

[hellhunter]

Lots of people saying france were going to cruise the game - and all it came down to was an own goal. I'd still be surprised if germany didn't make it out of the group

Unless Germany has a proper meltdown vs Hungary, there's no way they're not progressing thanks to this pointless mode.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Unless Germany has a proper meltdown vs Hungary, there's no way they're not progressing thanks to this pointless mode.

The game vs Hungary is key for any of the 3 favorite teams. Portugal's 3-0 win pretty much secured their place in the next round even if they lose vs Germany and France. Assuming that France will finish first if Germany gets a solid 2-0 / 3-0, they will go to the next round as well.

Although only winning vs Hungary won't guarantee anything

 

[do.ob]

France are not a side that necessarily strive to play pretty football or dominate matches. There's a reason they line up with four CBs and two defensive mids in front of them. And as such Germany having a bit more of the ball is not some great achievement. Infact it's rather the opposite, there are few things worse than possession without purpose and since die Mannschaft had absolutely no idea how to create chances, France could just wait out their feeble attempts rather comfortably and then exploit the gaping holes that Germany's pointless possession left at the back.

 

[Acrobat7]

Neuer
Don‘tcare/Ginter/Can - Hummels - Rüdiger - Gosens
Kimmich - Goretzka
Sané - Müller - Gnabry
Volland/Werner

Take Bayern’s spine and work around it. Don’t waste Kimmich als RB

 

[Rajiztar]

France are not a side that necessarily strive to play pretty football or dominate matches. There's a reason they line up with four CBs and two defensive mids in front of them. And as such Germany having a bit more of the ball is not some great achievement. Infact it's rather the opposite, there are few things worse than possession without purpose and since die Mannschaft had absolutely no idea how to create chances, France could just wait out their feeble attempts rather comfortably and then exploit the gaping holes that Germany's pointless possession left at the back.

That's absolute truth. France didn't even need to shift their gear and comfortably see off Germany. Germany of course will improve going far into the tournament but not yesterday. Only Italy at a stretch England will give france the game if every thing clicked after first round of games.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Lots of people saying france were going to cruise the game - and all it came down to was an own goal. I'd still be surprised if germany didn't make it out of the group

I think most likely scenario is Germany winning rather comfortably against Hungary before playing out a bore draw with Portugal, a scenario both are fine with.

Only way this ‘group of death’ get spicy is if Hungary manages an upset.

 

[do.ob]

I think most likely scenario is Germany winning rather comfortably against Hungary before playing out a bore draw with Portugal, a scenario both are fine with.

Only way this ‘group of death’ get spicy is if Hungary manages an upset.

It would be a bit unfair on the compeition if die Mannschaft and Portugal get to play each other twice.

 

[RoyH1]

It's strange for me to see the country of Klose, Bierhoff, Klinsmann, Völler and Gerd Müller being so bereft of top tier striking options. A sign of the footballing times perhaps. At least you're not Spain.