I'm not even sure United or Spurs are but Leicester, Wolves and Everton are not better than Dortmund ffs.
German football is turd
- Thread starter TwoSheds
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I'm not even sure United or Spurs are but Leicester, Wolves and Everton are not better than Dortmund ffs.
Absolutely. It's a big city though. I'm sure there's enough people that would be interested. Not that lack of suport has to get in the way of a club being successful these days.
Nope. Easily
And they wouldn't be able to dominate the PL market the way they do in Germany either. They play in God mode in Bundesliga because they have a monopoly over there with talent development center Dortmund as their main rivals.
Didn’t notice Dortmund
Yeah the latter 3 aren’t better. United and Spurs are though.I am assuming that the Bundesliga Reputation Protection Alliance is at full force just like they were in the Sancho thread.
For starters they wouldn't be able to handpick the best players from their number one title rivals for free because the PL isn't a joke that allows such league destroying crap.
But then it wouldn't be Bayern would it?
For starters they wouldn't be able to handpick the best players from their number one title rivals for free because the PL isn't a joke that allows such league destroying crap.
With Premier League TV money.
| Season | Bayern Points | Games | PPG | Points adjusted to 38 games | PL Champion points |
| 2019-20 | 82 | 34 | 2.41 | 91.65 | 99 |
| 2018-19 | 78 | 34 | 2.29 | 87.18 | 98 |
| 2017-18 | 84 | 34 | 2.47 | 93.88 | 100 |
| 2016-17 | 82 | 34 | 2.41 | 91.65 | 93 |
| 2015-16 | 88 | 34 | 2.59 | 98.35 | 81 |
| 2014-15 | 79 | 34 | 2.32 | 88.29 | 87 |
| 2013-14 | 90 | 34 | 2.65 | 100.59 | 89 |
| 2012-13 | 91 | 34 | 2.68 | 101.71 | 89 |
| 2011-12 | 73 | 34 | 2.15 | 81.59 | 80 |
| 2010-11 | 65 | 34 | 1.91 | 72.65 | 86 |
Bayern have gained more points than PL winners 5 times in last 10 years, in 2 of those seasons it was just by 1-2 points.
This is with huge financial gap between Bayern and the next nearest competitors.
Ole Out Crowd before RB Lepzig match:
PSG was a one-off. We learnt nothing new about Ole, all he can do is to sit deep against big teams and play counter-attacking football. Just wait for RB Lepzig match, they made semi-finals of UCL last year, beating Spurs 4-0 and A.Madrid 2-1 along the way. They are now currently leading Bundesliga and have a future great manager in Julian Nagelmann, whose team play high intensity pressing football that Ole's team are so weak against. Surely Ole will be found out.
Ole Out Crowd after RB Lepzig:
Upacameo is a shite defender; Bundesliga is shite; there is easily 6-7 teams in EPL better than RB Lepzig
PSG was a one-off. We learnt nothing new about Ole, all he can do is to sit deep against big teams and play counter-attacking football. Just wait for RB Lepzig match, they made semi-finals of UCL last year, beating Spurs 4-0 and A.Madrid 2-1 along the way. They are now currently leading Bundesliga and have a future great manager in Julian Nagelmann, whose team play high intensity pressing football that Ole's team are so weak against. Surely Ole will be found out.
Ole Out Crowd after RB Lepzig:
Upacameo is a shite defender; Bundesliga is shite; there is easily 6-7 teams in EPL better than RB Lepzig
Good table. Shows how highly competitive the Bundesliga is unlike the PL where in recent years winners were far ahead of the pack due to lack of competition.
That's true tbf, last time there was a proper title race was in 2018-19 when the title was decided on the last day, before that maybe Gerrard Slippy season.
Also last 2 season Bayern gave head start to other clubs out of pity and still smashed them.
I feel there are mostly two factors contributing to the massive divide in opinions on here.
The first being people like to think in extremes. Talking about one of the top leagues in Europe as being 'shit' is obviously hyperbolic but it shows how people like to classify things on a binary scale rather than on a continuous one. I agree, right now the Premier League is the best league in Europe and more importantly the most entertaining. However, the difference in quality to other leagues is certainly not as great as perceived by many.
The second factor is the condescension from some Premier League supporting commenters on here. As I already said, I do agree that the Premier League is on average the league with highest quality. However, I do remember the discussions on here around 5-8 seasons ago when that blatantly wasn't the case. Spanish football was dominating on all levels and for a brief moment even the Bundesliga as a whole had better football on display than the Premier League and people still argued that it was only two or three teams from these leagues that were better.
I guess people have and always will paint their own realities in some form or another. For the rest I recommend looking at resources such as clubelo.com, which is a great way of comparing teams from different leagues at certain points in time.
The first being people like to think in extremes. Talking about one of the top leagues in Europe as being 'shit' is obviously hyperbolic but it shows how people like to classify things on a binary scale rather than on a continuous one. I agree, right now the Premier League is the best league in Europe and more importantly the most entertaining. However, the difference in quality to other leagues is certainly not as great as perceived by many.
The second factor is the condescension from some Premier League supporting commenters on here. As I already said, I do agree that the Premier League is on average the league with highest quality. However, I do remember the discussions on here around 5-8 seasons ago when that blatantly wasn't the case. Spanish football was dominating on all levels and for a brief moment even the Bundesliga as a whole had better football on display than the Premier League and people still argued that it was only two or three teams from these leagues that were better.
I guess people have and always will paint their own realities in some form or another. For the rest I recommend looking at resources such as clubelo.com, which is a great way of comparing teams from different leagues at certain points in time.
That's not the point though.
For starters they wouldn't be able to handpick the best players from their number one title rivals for free because the PL isn't a joke that allows such league destroying crap.
The Bayern teams over the last ten years - only looking at the quality of their squads, not how those were assembled - would've easily won 6 or 7 titles, I stand by that.
As roonster showed us, even simple metrics suggest, that they would've won at least 5 times.
That doesn't take into account that they really didn't have to focus on their league in a lot of those years, which lead to some rather lackluster performances here and there.
Nobody in their right mind would claim that the 2016/17 Chelsea version (who got 93 points in the PL) was a team on the level of Bayern for example. The PL was just really weak that year, even Tottenham finished as runners-up.
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Yeah I'm saying you can't just look at the squad while ignoring how they were assembled. Imagine United buying Henry for free back when United and Arsenal were title rivals for every season. Absolute joke of a transfer.
Well to be fair, in 2012 we bought a prime RVP (29 years old) from Arsenal, who were still a top-4 lock with title ambitions back then ...
So your point is about Lewandowski? It wasn't a transfer but a player choosing to leave at the end of his contract which is possible everywhere.
The benefit of playing in a one horse league is you can throw away games to rest your players for more important CL games. Bayern have got it made in the shade in the Bundesliga. If Borussia were pushing them harder Bayern would be force to clock up a lot more points over the season. Conversly if Liverpool didn't have City on their backs they could have dropped points in order to rest players.
I remember a season a few years ago when Borussia were close to Bayern with a few games to go. They STILL rested their best players in a weekend Bundesliga game so that they could play a full strength side against Liverpool, not in the CL but in the second rate Uefa Cup.
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/37099/History/Thomas-Müller
Thomas Moller hasn't even started 30 Bundesliga games for years, why? Because he doesn't need too, he can be rested for CL. 26 starts last season, you can't do that in the PL.
The last time Dortmund were at their best and humiliated Real Madrid 4:1 in the semis, Bayern won the treble. Domestic competition didn’t seem to do us any harm. Oh and the year before that, when Dortmund won the league, we also reached the finale.
Imagine throwing around wild hypotheses about the Bundesliga and then backing up your post by putting up random data about some guy called Thomas Moller and claiming that your interpretation of that data is clearly correct.
If you ask me, I think Loeniel Messy is twice the player that Kirstiano Redondo is.
You literally just quoted stats that show that Bayern is getting less points on average than the teams that win the PL and are shamelessly using this as a definite proof of Bayern not getting tested in the Bundesliga at all. I'm not saying Bayern is finding winning the Bundesliga as hard as it should be atm, but what point is there in having a discussion, if one can just make up "proof" like this. You don't see Bayern fans going "the PL has so many top teams that go far in the CL, that it's far easier to break away from competition in the league, as all the other competition is also becoming more and more tired. In comparison all our Bundesliga contenders go out of the CL in the group stages which allows them to focus more on the league." Or how about "It's much harder to keep up momentum in the Bundesliga, as it's clearly not being watched as much as the Premier League. Thus it's twice as tough to stay focused and motivated throughout the season which in turn makes it a more difficult league. The prize is less valuable so you don't want to win as much."
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Hertha is a bit marginal by being a wessie club, a bit tainted by right wing/nazi support and a bit bland by playing at the impersonal Olympic stadium.
Union, however, has a real ardent following, fans who physically helped build the stadium An der Alten Vörsterei, and with a long tradition of integrity and resistance against first the nazis, then the western occupants (USA, France, Britain), then Stasi, then the neo nazis. If they can build on their current surge, and develop further the east/west rivalry with Hertha, I think it will increase the importance of football in Berlin in the course of a generation at least. Dynasties build slowly, after all.
Well to be fair, this past decade we just didn't have many top-teams that go far in the CL at all. Outside of us making the final in the 10/11 season, Liverpool making the final in 17/18 and Liverpool/Tottenham making the final in 18/19, it has been a rather shocking decade for PL teams.
The vast majority of times there was a combination of Real/Bayern/Barca + some flavor of the year (Atletico, Juve, Liverpool recently) in the semi-finals.
Enough said.
If you look at available budgets, pound for pound German teams are doing very well.
Title ambitions? For years and years Arsenal had 'title ambitions' only on paper because of their expensive tickets and huge fanbase. But in reality that was never supported by the decisions of their board, in transfer market or on the pitch.
We’re getting Sancho? Nice. Need a backup for Sane, who we just got relatively cheap from some English relegation fodder.
Enough said.
Can you cite similar examples in the PL happening at a regular rate? Even the RVP one cited above, which I agree can be considered somewhat similar, was still not as bad because firstly Arsenal isn't the only title challenger United had back then, heck they weren't even a title challenger and it was City who were champions and Chelsea the other team who used to give us a fight, and then RVP while a top quality player always had injury issues, which is why unsurprisingly he wasn't able to give us more than one - great - season. It's far far worse to have this happen in a league where you have one superpower who anyway sweep aside all the top talent in the country, also sweeping players like Lewa from the only team that has a chance to make it a title race. I don't know how you can say that didn't completely destroy the competition in the league. So yeah, if after moves like that people come up comparing the squad blindly on paper and saying it would be great in the PL, it doesn't make sense, as such moves are not gonna happen over here, nor does the league have a sole title contender to compete with the top team. This criticism is hardly anything new, for ages people criticize Bayern, Barca and Madrid for having this monopoly on the talent in their leagues which is a huge reason their squads are always so stacked, and consequently deteriorates the quality of the league and competition.
It actually hurts reading about that transfer every time. If it wasn't for him playing for our rivals I'd have preferred us go all out for him instead of Sancho, given him being at a perfect age to hit top gear and having already proven himself in the PL. Absolute top player which you feckers got for a bargain because he wasn't keen on staying in England. I'd be hardly surprised if he goes on to have better individual seasons than Sancho in the coming years. Honestly feck Bayern for being so fecking lucky.
Bundesliga is currently 4th in the UEFA coefficients. The PL is very likely to become number 1 next season when their low 16/17 points total no longer counts, barring a disasterous season this season.
Enough said.
Bayern also got some talented guys from some farmer clubs in the EPL.
Gnabry, Sane for example.
Similar to RVP? Nasri, Touré and Adebayor to City. Gallas to Arsenal. Cole to Chelsea.
On Lewandowski, it's a rarity everywhere Bundesliga included because top players rarely gamble on themselves and choose to not be out of contract, the other similar example would be maybe Pirlo to Juventus. And my point about it potentially happening anywhere is that it has little to do with Bayern or the Bundesliga but Lewandowski himself, he could have done the same thing anywhere because it was a personal decision, Dortmund and Bayern had no leverage.
And it did nothing to the competition in the league, Bayern are significantly wealthier than Dortmund, Lewandowski was always going to leave Dortmund for a larger contract, even if it was abroad, and Bayern would/could have done what they usually do which is find a top player from a non rival.
I sort of see the mentality behind such a topic after 5-0 against RB Leipzig! We won against turd, it is worthless therefore Ole out!
Yeah I already covered Arsenal and also mentioned why none of those moves were remotely as bad as Lewa's. Nor do Nasri and fecking Kolo Toure or Adebayor belong in the same bracket as one of the best strikers the league has ever seen who went on to rival the scoring rate of the fecking big two. And what do you mean Dortmund had no leverage? If they were clear that Lewa wasn't gonna stay with them they should have arranged for a transfer outside the league. Why the hell would you allow your best player to sing a pre-deal with the one team you are gonna compete with the entire season. Absolute joke. It's on the lines of Durant joining the Dubs and it's no coincidence that during his time at Oakland was by far the worst the league had been to watch ever since I've watched it. Absolute pointless trying to follow it any stage knowing there's no way Dubs were gonna lose barring major injuries. Like watching F1 in 2004 where Schumi and Barrichello would finish top 2 in every fecking race. I've no idea what german football fans look forward at the start of every season. "Alright guys let's see who wins the league this time!!" oh wait it's gonna be fecking Bayern.
You have literally no say in that. You can't force a transfer, it's not american sports footballers have to agree for a transfer. Lewa wasn't extending and Dortmund had no say in it.
Making him extend wasn't the only way to prevent him from joining Bayern. I've no idea why you are even defending the fact that leagues like Germany and France have crap competition? Is that controversial? Every fan would want more teams to compete and the talent being more evenly spread, and the fact that moves like these end up diluting the competition and deteriorating the quality of the league isn't debatable. It's pointless discussing how it could have happened differently, the fact is it did happen and that's the last time I remember Dortmund being relevant in something apart from selling young players for good money.
This is not the NFL or NBA. You can't arrange transfers without the player actually agreeing.
As far as I remember they actually even tried to convince Lewandowski to extend at first (failed) and then to be transfered to Real, but he said no, because he had made up his mind and only wanted to go to Bayern the next summer.
They literally could've done nothing about it.
Agreed. It’s so weird watching fans of supposed rival clubs glorifying Bayern to pretend their league is great. I doubt an Everton supporter would ever do that with Liverpool or be at peace with them taking their best players because they’ll do better in Europe.
During muppet season with Sancho I read a lot of forums and talk about an inferiority complex and jealousy. It seemed they were more concerned about getting full asking price than losing a key player.
During muppet season with Sancho I read a lot of forums and talk about an inferiority complex and jealousy. It seemed they were more concerned about getting full asking price than losing a key player.
Don't try to deflect, I'm simply addressing the point that you made. In football players can not be moved without their consent, Dortmund had no say on where Lewandowski was going to play outside of Dortmund.
I haven't seen any German fan making a thread about how great the Bundesliga is, when 4th placed M'gladbach were seconds away from beating both Real and Inter or when Leipzig easily knocked out Tottenham last year.
Instead it's always some PL fans, that somehow try to shit on other leagues, while completely ignoring that the PL in itself had been completely irrelevant in Europe for half of last decade (2012-2017).
If anything, it's those guys with a weird inferiority complex (probably because they're jealous of clubs like Bayern) ...
Deflect? My point was that the transfer in question is one of the several reasons why the league descended into being monopolized by Bayern and consequently reaching it's current state of 'turd'. There's no point trying to act as if a move like that had no impact on the quality of the league.