German football is turd

stefan92 said:
Seems so. Just out of interest, for how long are you aware of Union and their rise? Maybe the novelty factor has already worn off for us Germans but not for you - which would explain why we disagree here.
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I became aware of them the year before they came up to the Bundesliga. Was visiting friends that lived in Kreuzberg and saw the scene a bit
 
Zehner said:
True but worth mentioning, the German champions currently aren't the best team from Germany!
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I won’t let this not so humble brag post go ignored. Happy for you man. Hope Leverkusen keep it up and don’t bottle it like Dortmund.
 
WeePat said:
I won’t let this not so humble brag post go ignored. Happy for you man. Hope Leverkusen keep it up and don’t bottle it like Dortmund.
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You are congratulating the wrong team, currently Stuttgart are better, just a bit unlucky with their finishing.
 
kaiser1 said:
Bottom of the group to Galatasaray and Copenhagen. Really turd
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Manchester United are a poor club in a strong league. Bayern are a strong club in a poor league.

In the last 10 years only 3 German teams have played in the champions league final and 2 of those are Bayern. It's quite telling that English teams reach the final and latter stages of the tournament far more often than German teams.
 
horsechoker said:
Manchester United are a poor club in a strong league. Bayern are a strong club in a poor league.

In the last 10 years only 3 German teams have played in the champions league final and 2 of those are Bayern. It's quite telling that English teams reach the final and latter stages of the tournament far more often than German teams.
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Finally someone bit
 
horsechoker said:
Manchester United are a poor club in a strong league. Bayern are a strong club in a poor league.

In the last 10 years only 3 German teams have played in the champions league final and 2 of those are Bayern. It's quite telling that English teams reach the final and latter stages of the tournament far more often than German teams.
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Nobody in their right mind denies that there are more top teams in the PL compared to the Bundesliga.

It's only natural since almost every single PL club has some kind of sugardaddy and way too much money for Bundesliga teams outside of Bayern to compete with in the long run.

However, there is a difference between stating the obvious and calling another league "turd".

In terms of overall quality there is almost no difference between LaLiga, Serie A and the Bundesliga as shown by the UEFA 5-year coefficient where those leagues are basically even.

The PL is noticeably ahead of those three leagues, but it's not a gigantic gap.

There is a huge gap after those 4 top leagues though.
 
Pickle85 said:
Came here to say this. Us being utter shite doesn't make the Bundesliga good.
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RedCafe: Let's use every possible occasion to point out how shit the Bundesliga is

Also RedCafe: Stop pointing out how shit United is every possible occasion!


WeePat said:
I won’t let this not so humble brag post go ignored. Happy for you man. Hope Leverkusen keep it up and don’t bottle it like Dortmund.
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Thanks :D

We and bottling? Come on!
 
Spaghetti said:
This thread doesn’t say “ONLY German football is turd”, it doesn’t need to resurface when we lost to the only half decent German team. We know we are also turd.
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3 German teams to 2 English teams through to the knockouts. You look like a total fool.
 
horsechoker said:
Manchester United are a poor club in a strong league. Bayern are a strong club in a poor league.

In the last 10 years only 3 German teams have played in the champions league final and 2 of those are Bayern. It's quite telling that English teams reach the final and latter stages of the tournament far more often than German teams.
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Can we add Newcastle to the poor clubs
 
Spaghetti said:
This thread doesn’t say “ONLY German football is turd”, it doesn’t need to resurface when we lost to the only half decent German team. We know we are also turd.
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Group of Death
Dortmund 1st
Saudicastle 4th
 
JogaBonitoRooney said:
3 German teams to 2 English teams through to the knockouts. You look like a total fool.
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You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep the bulk of their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's look at some more meaningful figures than one single group stage in one year of the tournament:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mind that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
 
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Dansk said:
You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep nearly all their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's have a look at something else instead:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mine that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
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:lol: Imagine being this insecure you have write all this so quickly over a little jab at your favourite league when another league gets a little bit of bragging rights. I think everyone agrees EPL has been comfortably the best league in the last 5 years.

The title of this thread looks foolish though as many of the best players in EPL are from Bundesliga, if not they're from La Liga, Ligue1, Serie A who also have some sort of "turd league" narrative amongst some EPL fanatics.
 
Dansk said:
You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep the bulk of their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's look at some more meaningful figures than one single group stage in one year of the tournament:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mine that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
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Relax, it isn't that serious.
 
JogaBonitoRooney said:
:lol: Imagine being this insecure you have write all this so quickly over a little jab at your favourite league when another league gets a little bit of bragging rights. I think everyone agrees EPL has been comfortably the best league in the last 5 years.

The title of this thread looks foolish though as many of the best players in EPL are from Bundesliga, if not they're from La Liga, Ligue1, Serie A who also have some sort of "turd league" narrative amongst some EPL fanatics.
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Imagine being this insecure that one needs call internet people "total fools" for their opinions.
 
Dansk said:
You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep the bulk of their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's look at some more meaningful figures than one single group stage in one year of the tournament:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mine that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
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English clubs are much better on the commercial side, German clubs are better at getting more out of their limited budgets. So I guess you could say English folks are better at selling football while Germans are better at playing it :)
 
German teams may be good at getting out of the qualifiers, but they almost never win or reach a final. These are the stats from the last 20 years:

England:
- Number of finalists: 15
- Number of winners: 6
- Number different finalists: 6
- Number different winners: 4

Germany:
- Number of finalists: 5
- Number of winners: 2
- Number different finalists: 2
- Number different winners: 1

Cherry on top: the PL is actually semi-competitive. I say "semi" because City are doing their best to ruin the fun for the rest.

And here is Spain for good measure...


Spain:
- Number of finalists: 11
- Number of winners: 9
- Number different finalists: 3
- Number different winners: 2


And Italy for the hell of it (also better than Germany :lol: ):

Italy:
- Number of finalists: 6
- Number of winners: 2
- Number different finalists: 3
- Number different winners: 2
 
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Dansk said:
You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep the bulk of their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's look at some more meaningful figures than one single group stage in one year of the tournament:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mind that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
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I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for you though. Or sorry that happened.
 
89a6m4.jpg
 
Scandi Red said:
German teams may be good at getting out of the qualifiers, but they almost never win or reach a final. These are the stats from the last 20 years:

England:
- Number of finalists: 15
- Number of winners: 6
- Number different finalists: 6
- Number different winners: 4

Germany:
- Number of finalists: 5
- Number of winners: 2
- Number different finalists: 2
- Number different winners: 1

Cherry on top: the PL is actually semi-competitive. I say "semi" because City are doing their best to ruin the fun for the rest.

And here is Spain for good measure...


Spain:
- Number of finalists: 11
- Number of winners: 9
- Number different finalists: 3
- Number different winners: 2


And Italy for the hell of it (also better than Germany :lol: ):

Italy:
- Number of finalists: 6
- Number of winners: 2
- Number different finalists: 3
- Number different winners: 2
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Why not take last 100 years? :D

Germany is way better then England. And not just in football. Deal with it. :D
 
Dansk said:
You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep the bulk of their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's look at some more meaningful figures than one single group stage in one year of the tournament:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mind that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
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Reporting this post for murder.
 
Paula said:
Why not take last 100 years? :D

Germany is way better then England. And not just in football. Deal with it. :D
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This is what coping looks like. Remove Bayern from the league and you lot aren't that different from the Portugese league.

But we have 3 teams to 2 Engrish ones so we wuz better ... :lol:
 
ArmaDino said:
This is what coping looks like. Remove Bayern from the league and you lot aren't that different from the Portugese league.

But we have 3 teams to 2 Engrish ones so we wuz better ... :lol:
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Nobody claimed that :lol:

The point of 3 teams qualified was mostly that there is more than one "half decent team" in Germany
 
Scandi Red said:
German teams may be good at getting out of the qualifiers, but they almost never win or reach a final. These are the stats from the last 20 years:

England:
- Number of finalists: 15
- Number of winners: 6
- Number different finalists: 6
- Number different winners: 4

Germany:
- Number of finalists: 5
- Number of winners: 2
- Number different finalists: 2
- Number different winners: 1

Cherry on top: the PL is actually semi-competitive. I say "semi" because City are doing their best to ruin the fun for the rest.

And here is Spain for good measure...


Spain:
- Number of finalists: 11
- Number of winners: 9
- Number different finalists: 3
- Number different winners: 2


And Italy for the hell of it (also better than Germany :lol: ):

Italy:
- Number of finalists: 6
- Number of winners: 2
- Number different finalists: 3
- Number different winners: 2
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Matches the coefficient:

Premier League: 97.7
La Liga: 85
Serie A: 81.1
Bundesliga: 79.1
Ligue 1: 59.5
 
stefan92 said:
The last German team (Frankfurt) that played in the CL for the first time passed the group stage and at least becoming 3rd was expected. They way this went is indeed embarassing.
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I just dont get how its embarrassing. Like the other user stated, they played in the 2nd bundesliga just a few years ago and now theyre playing the best teams in Europe. They are in terrible form and were in a relegation spot basically all season so far.

What did you expect? teams like newcastle with a budget probably 20 times higher didnt get out of their group and that is more embarassing. Union kept all their games close and competed. Its union berlin man, its not BVB. Not sure how someone can think they embarrassed the bundesliga..
 
The Bundesliga is the one top league I've never had any interest in whatsoever. It's a pretty terrible league with boring football. The only side in my lifetime that was worth watching there was Schaaf's Werder Bremen. Especially when Ozil and Diego were playing together.
 
Yagami said:
The Bundesliga is the one top league I've never had any interest in whatsoever. It's a pretty terrible league with boring football. The only side in my lifetime that was worth watching there was Schaaf's Werder Bremen. Especially when Ozil and Diego were playing together.
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That sounds as if you died 15 years ago. Scary!
 
SRB87 said:
I just dont get how its embarrassing. Like the other user stated, they played in the 2nd bundesliga just a few years ago and now theyre playing the best teams in Europe. They are in terrible form and were in a relegation spot basically all season so far.

What did you expect? teams like newcastle with a budget probably 20 times higher didnt get out of their group and that is more embarassing. Union kept all their games close and competed. Its union berlin man, its not BVB. Not sure how someone can think they embarrassed the bundesliga..
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I did expect them to be more stable and not collapse like they did this season. Which is a compliment for their work during the last years.
 
Dansk said:
You "look like a fool" basing your view of a country's footballing standards on a single cherrypicked group stage of one tournament. If you legitimately think that the fact that 3 German teams advanced while only two English teams did means that the Bundesliga ranks above the Premier League in terms of stature, quality, impact on the sport and general league competitiveness, you have no business calling anybody a fool.

It remains a fact that it's pretty pathetic for a nation with the kind of football pedigree that Germany has to have literally only one legitimately elite club. Dortmund have also done well from time to time, but in no conceivable way can they be ranked as one of Europe's top clubs. There's just Bayern. One team. It has only ever been them. It was impressive of Dortmund to top that group, but the fact that it is a noteworthy surprise says all that needs to be said about them. How many clubs are there in Germany where it wouldn't be a massive surprise and underdog story to win the CL? One. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. In a country whose national team has always dominated international football, and where they've historically managed to keep the bulk of their best players for their domestic league, that is a serious underachievement.

Since you chose to cherrypick a tiny sliver of the sport to "prove your point," let's look at some more meaningful figures than one single group stage in one year of the tournament:

In the last twenty years, German teams have figured in the CL final five times and won twice. Only two different German clubs have been in a CL final in that timeframe and only one has won it.

English clubs? Fifteen finalists, seven different clubs. Six winners across four clubs.

Spanish? Eleven finalists, three different clubs. Nine winners across two clubs.

Italian? Bearing in mind that their league has been in the dumps for over a decade. Eight finalists. Three different clubs. Three winners across two clubs.

Of the big four leagues, Germany are dead last when it comes to CL clout in the last twenty years, and they are miles behind England and Spain. One would have to be an absolute moron to claim that German football is better. The fact of the matter is that German club football has massively underperformed and only one elite club has ever emerged from what should otherwise be a footballing superpower. One can say what one wants about the way their ownership rules might hold them back from competing financially, but that isn't relevant to the discussion. The self-evident reality is that German football is embarrassingly far from the level that it should be at.
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If you ignore any kind of context and only try to uphold your (strange) narrative, some bs like your post is the result.

You throw around words like "pathetic" and "underachievers", while completely ignoring the bigger picture.

In Germany clubs have to be financially solid and act responsible. If they don't, they will fall deep (Schalke, Hamburg, Hertha etc.). Nobody "owns" the clubs like every Premier League sugar daddy does, there are only a few corporations like Bayer or VW that invest modest money (even a 20-25 million transfer is considered huge for them though).

Compare that to the PL where some sheikhs, US billionaires or arab countries can throw around hundreds of millions without having to blink or care once.

Or with Spain and Italy where the system is so laughably corrupt that almost all the big clubs are bankrupt, but are protected by the state and shady law twists. The tax payers in those countries have to account for all the debts of those clubs then.

Of course you can act completely different in those leagues.

It's actually a miracle that the Bundesliga is on par with La Liga and Serie A in the UEFA 5-year-coefficient.
 
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I feel like German clubs always do well to get out of the group stage and then crumble in the knockouts (In the CL that is). England seem to have 1 or 2 clubs that crumble in the groups but very strong clubs that make it to the latter stages. Spanish clubs are mostly always in and around the final.
 
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