German Football 23/24 |

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SilentWitness said:
Dier is fecking awful!
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Absolutely beggers belief when De Ligt is on the bench. Tuchel really trying to be oversmart by moving to a 3 at the back formation to match with Leverkusen.

B. Munich said:
The main problem is the injury crisis. There are hardly 2 matches, Tuchel can field the same team.

Today the offense was actually even worse than the defense. Sané looks out of form since the start of the year. Same accounts for Musiala. Coman and Gnabry have long time injuries. Kane has games where he is totally invisible (Bremen or today). Tel just isn't on the level (yet).
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Squad building in defense has been poor, obviously, but injuries can't be blamed for starting with Dier and having Boey as LB when De Ligt and Guerrero are on the bench. Yes, Coman and Gnabry are injured but you still have Musiala, who can easily slot into LW and Muller can play as the CAM, where he has been quite good lately as well.

Kimmich, I can understand missed a couple of games before so you can say he wasn't fully match fit. But all the other decisions are purely on Tuchel.
 
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Some thoughts which may be one-off game stuff since I haven't watched a single Bundesliga game this season (though have watched these teams in Europe a few times):

-Tuchel taking criticism seems fair, tough to have a game where you play a RB at LWB with 3/5 at the back and your team just can't progress the forward at all until you go down 2-0 and the other team is happy to sit back. They constantly ended up with Boey on the ball on the left touchline under pressure and it always looked more likely to create a Leverkusen chance than anything positive for Bayern. Guerrero at least could hit it up the line and maybe you're getting it to Kane or forcing some 2nd balls.

-Dier just too slow. Terrible matchup for him without a striker and just a false 9 and 2 speedy little fellas running around out wide. I assume this is how Leverkusen play without Boniface and if so, that's another mistake from Tuchel. Be like us using Maguire against that type of opposition setup and that would scare the hell out of me (it did even against West Ham but we played well and he didn't end up with Bowen running circles around him).

-Be interesting if Alonso gets the Liverpool job as on this evidence and a little of what I've read (Cox had a piece I think?), it would be a pretty big change in footballing style, but certainly his team looked really clear in what they wanted to do on and off the ball which is all you can really ask for.

-Wirtz's first touch looked comfortably the best on the pitch and honestly as good or better than anyone I've seen other than maybe when Bernardo Silva is on form or Modric is still cooking. Just never looked like giving the ball away and knows where everyone around him is. Almost Zidane-like without the size and strength.

-Grimaldo was probably even better, just looked clearer in how to progress up the pitch than basically everyone else on the pitch save Wirtz, and even quicker in his thrusts forward.

-Though Kim was the best of the Bayern players, though that isn't saying much. He moves well for his size.

-Typical Kane when he's not a factor game where he gets no service but it's partly because he's not athletically gifted enough to get touches without the ball being played into him from someone fairly nearby so he's always coming short instead of varying his runs more.

-The lad Pavlovic looked scared to play the ball forward but also he's 19 so that's fairly normal. I do think Kimmich playing would have made a difference in terms of giving Bayern some sort of hold in the game rather than it being so one sided.

-Upamecano apparently still has truly terrible games in him. Tella beating him in that duel before the 2nd goal felt (in retrospect) like the moment the game was fully lost.

-Football is funny in that Leverkusen were sharper but what that literally turned into was a couple moments where they managed to hit nutmeg passes through some Bayern defenders to assist both goals. A reminder of just how incredible top footballers are. It's one thing to consistently hit hard low passes through defenders leg in a 7 a side game on a smaller pitch, but in 11s I can't imagine consistently doing it without giving the ball away and creating counters for the opposition so often you don't even think about risking it.
 
Grimaldo is a wonderful player. I don’t know how Leverkusen managed to sign him on a free last summer. And Benfica could lose Rafa for nothing in a few months. Two quality players they’ll sorely lack
 
Kane thought he made a move guaranteed to finally win trophies.

What he's actually done is turn Bayern into Spurs instead.
 
NoPace said:
-Dier just too slow. Terrible matchup for him without a striker and just a false 9 and 2 speedy little fellas running around out wide. I assume this is how Leverkusen play without Boniface and if so, that's another mistake from Tuchel.
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Actually that was quite surprising. Usually Leverkusen play a 3421 formation with a true striker - if not Boniface, then Schick or maybe Hlozek play there. The 4231 with Adli, who played the false nine today usually plays alongside or instead of Wirtz behind the striker, was not expected and I don't think was used at all this season.

So not really a mistake from Tuchel, but Alonso did do something one couldn't expect.
 
stefan92 said:
Actually that was quite surprising. Usually Leverkusen play a 3421 formation with a true striker - if not Boniface, then Schick or maybe Hlozek play there. The 4231 with Adli, who played the false nine today usually plays alongside or instead of Wirtz behind the striker, was not expected and I don't think was used at all this season.

So not really a mistake from Tuchel, but [Irrelevant point - unless we are talking about F1] did do something one couldn't expect.
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Ah good to know. Then I can somewhat excuse Dier being out there. I still would have taken him off at halftime down 1-0 and risked it with 4 at the back. I don't think enough coaches chuck their game plan when it's failed and you have close to 15 minutes to instruct a plan B. Would have at least led to a more chaotic game that might have given Bayern a better chance rather than continuing to create nothing with 5 at the back and just praying Leverkusen couldn't pick them off on the break and an equalizer would somehow pop up.

Also I just hate having a big lumbering CB out there against tiny attackers who aren't going to back into them anyways and will be running at them from angles and drawing them out of position, unless you're just sitting really deep, and you can't do that down 1-0 anyways.
 
Jeez Tuchel will have a huge blot on his resume being the manager to finally lose the title with Bayern.
 
stefan92 said:
So not really a mistake from Tuchel, but Alonso did do something one couldn't expect.
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Both coaches came up with some surprises. Unfortunately (for Bayern), Tuchel's didn't work out with Bayer's lineup. 3 central defenders while Bayer doesn't have even one striker on the field.

I would have thought Tuchel realizes this and make quick changes. However he waited until the 60 minute and we have been down 2 goals.
Poor coaching.

The Stanisic goal is a slap into the face of our board. The guy who they (wrongly) thought was a surplus, scored against the 30 million Euro panic buy.
Poor recruiting.

The team didn't show any urgency and determination. After going down 1:0 the whole team crumbled. No leaders on the field with Kimmich and Müller in the bench.
Poor mentality.

Let's see if this was the final wakeup call and they can turn it around and at least give Leverkusen a fight to the end. If so, I'm still postive Leverkusen will crumble under the pressure.
Otherwise it's time to look for a new manager.
 
stefan92 said:
Actually that was quite surprising. Usually Leverkusen play a 3421 formation with a true striker - if not Boniface, then Schick or maybe Hlozek play there. The 4231 with Adli, who played the false nine today usually plays alongside or instead of Wirtz behind the striker, was not expected and I don't think was used at all this season.

So not really a mistake from Tuchel, but Alonso did do something one couldn't expect.
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Is it though? Boniface isn't exactly some ponderous target man
 
B. Munich said:
Both coaches came up with some surprises. Unfortunately (for Bayern), Tuchel's didn't work out with Bayer's lineup. 3 central defenders while Bayer doesn't have even one striker on the field.

I would have thought Tuchel realizes this and make quick changes. However he waited until the 60 minute and we have been down 2 goals.
Poor coaching.
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Agree on this, Tuchel should have changed things quicker.
giorno said:
Is it though? Boniface isn't exactly some ponderous target man
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Nonetheless Boniface is someone who plays in the box, just like Schick (who is a bit more of a target man), while Adli is only occasionally running into the box. So yes, it definitely was a different approach.
 
RoyH1 said:
The Spurs is so strong in him. He’s ruining Conan’s perfect record too.
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What's best in life? Outplay your enemies, see them pressed before you, and hear the lamentations of their supporters
-Conan the Bavarian
 
Bayern's biggest mistake in recent history was to sack Brazzo Salihamidzic.

That man stood for success like no other. Won the Bundesliga in every single season he was in charge, brought in players like Musiala and Davies for peanuts, instilled the right winners mentality in the team, and last but not least brought us the Champions League.

Absolute legend and probably the best sporting director we ever had. It's going downhill since he left and now it looks like we won't win a title for the first time in a decade...

Please come back, Brazzo!
 
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New champion would be good for Bundesliga (sam as EPL), but it would be bad for other teams because Bayern will go nuclear in the summer.

Didn't they once pick apart Leverkusen? Ballack, Lucio and cyborg Ze Roberto. Sorry if I am mistaken.
 
ForEverEleven said:
Alonso completely outclassed Tuchel yesterday. Woud have loved to see his reaction to our lineup. :lol:
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Actually the mismatch was so obvious, even I could see 3 defenders make no sense, if your opponent plays without a striker.

You world expect an experienced coach sees this and reacts accordingly, even before the kickoff.
 
B. Munich said:
Actually the mismatch was so obvious, even I could see 3 defenders make no sense, if your opponent plays without a striker.

You world expect an experienced coach sees this and reacts accordingly, even before the kickoff.
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Boey as LB and Mazraoui as RB confused me as well. Boey is new and hasn’t played LB in ages. At least let the guy play his normal position in his first game with new teammates against a very good team.
 
Christian Falk: José Mourinho is learning German. He has flirted with the Manager-Job at FC Bayern already in the past. He would appreciate to win after the Portuguese, Italian, English and Spanish also the German Championship :lol:
 
PepG said:
Christian Falk: José Mourinho is learning German. He has flirted with the Manager-Job at FC Bayern already in the past. He would appreciate to win after the Portuguese, Italian, English and Spanish also the German Championship :lol:
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Mourinho replacing Tuchel and Dortmhnd staying with Terzic would be a dream come true
 
stefan92 said:
Again, they are only 5 points ahead because Bayern are playing their best season in years, while Leverkusen is close to playing the best ever BL season. Leverkusen got 55 of 63 possible points and did not lose all season. If that isn't dominating a league, then what is?

If they win the title they will do it against strong opposition, not against weak.
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To be fair, I think we had a bit more result luck as well. I think the xG values on understat are sometimes a bit weird but they still have Bayern first by expected points and only after the win yesterday did we climb over Stuttgart. It's not always pretty but as it seems they outperform their opponents more than enough in terms of chances.


GhastlyHun said:
Curb your enthusiasm
Nothing of this will happen. Xabi will manage us before Mou :p
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Come on, you've got to admit Mourinho would have high entertainment value. Imagine his reaction if he were put in Tuchel's shoes, demanding a new RB/RCB all summer long and instead of signing somebody they actually sell Pavard AND Stanisic without replacements.
 
How do you know that spring is coming? HSV is going into meltdown. This time: Sacking their head coach. Tim Walter is gone, the 3:4 at home against Hannover (what a match :drool:) finally was too much to keep him. Pretty spectacular failure to announce during the winter break that you will work and focus on the defence and then see your average goals against rise from 1.3 to 2.25 :lol:)

Any bets on who will be next? There seem to be rumours about Baumgart for quite some time now...
 
It honestly boggles the mind how a club the size of HSV can fail so spectacularly for so long
 
giorno said:
It honestly boggles the mind how a club the size of HSV can fail so spectacularly for so long
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Could be worse. They sacked their manager now in third place out of fear of not getting promoted to the first league. They could be Schalke, who already sacked their manager earlier this season and are still in danger of getting relegated to the third league.
 
stefan92 said:
How do you know that spring is coming? HSV is going into meltdown. This time: Sacking their head coach. Tim Walter is gone, the 3:4 at home against Hannover (what a match :drool:) finally was too much to keep him. Pretty spectacular failure to announce during the winter break that you will work and focus on the defence and then see your average goals against rise from 1.3 to 2.25 :lol:)

Any bets on who will be next? There seem to be rumours about Baumgart for quite some time now...
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I wil be very mad at 96 if HSV comes back with a new-manager-bounce...
 
giorno said:
It honestly boggles the mind how a club the size of HSV can fail so spectacularly for so long
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Since they went down they spent €29m gross (around the level of Hannover and Düsseldorf) and negative €37m net. Debt and Covid have kept them from making statements on the transfer market.
They tried to play decent football, Titz, Wolf, Thioune, Walter and now Polzin were young-ish coches and kind of imaginative. And they rewarded positive football with quite a bit of patience in Walter's case.
I don't think there's much you can blame them for anymore, they are paying for the mistakes of people, who are long gone and the weight of being such a big club in the second division.
They also reached two cup semis never finished worse than 4th and last season in particular was pretty tragic from their perspective: first Heidenheim secured promotion by scoring in the 93rd and 99th minute and then they had to face Stuttgart in the playoff. So it's more like they are coninuously falling just shy of promotion.
 
I know they do this every year but I would be very surprised if they fail again this time. There's a complete lack of true top tier squads in the league this season (maybe with the exception of St. Pauli) and all those teams from 2 to 13 almost feel interchangeable quality-wise. HSV at least has a certain amount of quality on that team.
And while we're on the subject of randomness, here's Hertha's season in a nutshell:

hertha.jpg


I've rarely seen such a discrepancy between first and second half results.
 
uamini said:
And while we're on the subject of randomness, here's Hertha's season in a nutshell:

hertha.jpg


I've rarely seen such a discrepancy between first and second half results.
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If I were to guess I'd say I see something like this pointed out once every year.

The press would zero in on fitness issues, but there's a couple of logical explanations for this.

Say a team not having a lot of answers when their opposition up the pressure towards the end of the game.
For example I have the impression that Dortmund often tend to drop off around halfway through the first half, once the opposition presses a bit more confidently.

Some teams like to have a go at their opponents from the very start, before they settle into a calmer game.

Other teams may just have a weak bench and suffer for it in the final third of the match.

Considering how clear the difference is I'm fairly certain that one could come up with a perfectly logical explanation if they enjoyed enough Hertha games this season.
 
I start to believe that the Bundesliga has massively lost quality this year.

So far the narrative has been:

Bayern is better than in previous years (see current points per games), but only Leverkusen is exceptional this year which is why Bayern is second.

I believe:

The whole Bundesliga has lost in quality and wouldn't be surprised if all teams bar Leverkusen and Bayern will not make it to the next round in Europe this year.

You have teams like Heidenheim who are not far from the European spots in the Bundesliga. So the reason for Bayern having more points than in previous years could simply be that the whole competition is worse than in previous years. This is also why a good, but not exceptional Leverkusen can play the season they play.
 
es-muellert said:
I start to believe that the Bundesliga has massively lost quality this year.

So far the narrative has been:

Bayern is better than in previous years (see current points per games), but only Leverkusen is exceptional this year which is why Bayern is second.

I believe:

The whole Bundesliga has lost in quality and wouldn't be surprised if all teams bar Leverkusen and Bayern will not make it to the next round in Europe this year.

You have teams like Heidenheim who are not far from the European spots in the Bundesliga. So the reason for Bayern having more points than in previous years could simply be that the whole competition is worse than in previous years. This is also why a good, but not exceptional Leverkusen can play the season they play.
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The current Leverkusen, Stuttgart and Bayern teams would walk last season's title race without breaking a sweat, IMO. In hindight, I believe this season could be seen as a similar tactical turning point as the 09/10 season by Klopp that started the pressing obsession in football Germany.
 
If I compare Bayern's performance last night, but also in the group stage matches with their Champions League performances last year, it's difficult to rate this year's team higher.

It's been a long time (definitely pre van Gaal) that I've seen a Bayern team that harmless against a bus parking team as yesterday night. 0 shots on target was shocking.
 
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