German Football 23/24 |

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I'm surprised Nagelsmann took the job. Huge risk for him after having failed at Munich.
If the national team disappoints at the home tournament his reputation will be heavily damaged. The influence he can have on the team is very limited. 3 games in October and 2 in November, then a couple of games before the EC will start.
 
do.ob said:
Eberl is the one, who thew them into turmoil, by holding together a dysfunctional squad at the expense of getting any transfer fees for half the squad.
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i happen to disagree. Gladbach is a relict form the old Bundesliga; the city isnt really big enough to support a 1st league team, especially in that area where there are like 10 top level clubs within 100km. Without some proper miracles and some of them engineered by Eberl, they would have joined the likes of Oberhausen, Uerdingen or Kaiserslautern long, long ago
 
strongwalker said:
i happen to disagree. Gladbach is a relict form the old Bundesliga; the city isnt really big enough to support a 1st league team, especially in that area where there are like 10 top level clubs within 100km. Without some proper miracles and some of them engineered by Eberl, they would have joined the likes of Oberhausen, Uerdingen or Kaiserslautern long, long ago
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How do you explain that tiny Heidenheim now has a Bundesliga club?
 
stefan92 said:
How do you explain that tiny Heidenheim now has a Bundesliga club?
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Wild guess but they may have qualified by winning some league or something.

Other teams that were shortly part of the Bundesliga included SSV Ulm, FC Ingolstadt, SpVgg Unterhaching, FC Homburg and Preußen Münster. Heidenheim being (temporarily) a BL member proves/disproves my point exactly how?
 
ForEverEleven said:
Dont think its possible for Nagelsmann to implement any complex tactical variations or system changes now. Its hard to do on national team level anyway since the team is only together for a week or two every few months and now its only 9 months since the Euros are starting. Just not enough time. Thats why the DFB shouldve brought in someone who has the personality, charisma and authority to bring the nation and the team behind him and just ride a wave of euphoria into the tournament. Just try to build on the little bit of good mood that came after the France game. Thats more important now than any tactical masterminds like Nagelsmann supposedly is. For those reasons I wouldve loved Van Gaal. Nagelsmann really doesnt strike you like the kind of guy you want to root for.
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I think Van Gaal hasn't been involved with our League for 12 years by now. For such a short term stint you better know the players you are dealing with. All jokes aside, Nagelsmann was the best option on the market.

stefan92 said:
Exactly... I'd rather even see Sandro Wagner in that role then Nagelsmann...
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Sandro "I'm the biggest imbecile in German Football in years" Wagner?
 
strongwalker said:
i happen to disagree. Gladbach is a relict form the old Bundesliga; the city isnt really big enough to support a 1st league team, especially in that area where there are like 10 top level clubs within 100km. Without some proper miracles and some of them engineered by Eberl, they would have joined the likes of Oberhausen, Uerdingen or Kaiserslautern long, long ago
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Gladbach are probably around the top 10 of German clubs in terms of revenue. Why wouldn't they belong in Bundesliga?

And I'm not denying that Eberl did a lot to build them up, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a meltdown on his way out.
 
strongwalker said:
Wild guess but they may have qualified by winning some league or something.

Other teams that were shortly part of the Bundesliga included SSV Ulm, FC Ingolstadt, SpVgg Unterhaching, FC Homburg and Preußen Münster. Heidenheim being (temporarily) a BL member proves/disproves my point exactly how?
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It's not necessary to be a big city to have a Bundesliga club, wasn't the case decades ago, isn't the case now.

Gladbach isn't a relic because of the size of the city is my point.

2ndTouch said:
I think Van Gaal hasn't been involved with our League for 12 years by now. For such a short term stint you better know the players you are dealing with.
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As Dutch manager he called up a lot of players from the Bundesliga, he definitely followed what's going on here. So I don't think it would be a big issue that he doesn't know the players, I am pretty sure he has a decent overview.

2ndTouch said:
Sandro "I'm the biggest imbecile in German Football in years" Wagner?
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Exactly him. He seems to be a promising young manager, did take charge of training session under Völler and is entertaining and doesn’t mind being controversial.

I grant that that's not much to go by, but he would have been an option that is neither tarnished by being too much involved in the bad late Löw/Flick years nor by having recently failed at managing the core of the NT.

That said I wrote that primarily because I dislike Nagelsmann.
 
stefan92 said:
Exactly him. He seems to be a promising young manager, did take charge of training session under Völler and is entertaining and doesn’t mind being controversial.
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He's dimwitted fool who deemed it appropriate to hold a presser for his NT-retirement, ffs. He's the Torsten Legat or Mario Basler of our time, a Stammtisch-Bullshiter. He belongs into Doppelpass not our NT.
 
It will be strange if Nagelsmann becomes the manager and reunites with some of the Bayern players who threw him under the bus.

Maybe he can bring them together for something bigger than needing to be Hollywood FC.
 
2ndTouch said:
He's dimwitted fool who deemed it appropriate to hold a presser for his NT-retirement, ffs. He's the Torsten Legat or Mario Basler of our time, a Stammtisch-Bullshiter. He belongs into Doppelpass not our NT.
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I wouldn't necessarily call him an intellectual, but I think he's still quite clearly above the people you mentioned. Maybe he's more akin to Völler - without the boomer stuff.
 
strongwalker said:
on a long-term basis, it is. most seasons in the BL: München, Bremen, Stuttgart, Dortmund, M'Gladbach, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Gelsenkirchen, Köln, Köln Suburbs, Berlin
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They are comfortably in the top 15 financially, so why wouldn't they be able to be a Bundesliga club based on their city?
It makes no sense.

And you think Leverkusen's status is in any way connected to being a suburb of Cologne? If that's the case why don't they have any fans?
 
anyone know if Bayern Home league game tickets are hard to get - I will be there next March with my kids and would love to take in a game
 
GhastlyHun said:
Still would prefer him over Nagelsmann. This is not meant to slight our former coach, i just think Kuntz brings a lot of valuable experience with the younger generation of German players. Plus he was very succesful with the U21.
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Yep agree as well. Would rather have someone who is familiar with the setup and has worked with a lot of the players.
 
McGrathsipan said:
anyone know if Bayern Home league game tickets are hard to get - I will be there next March with my kids and would love to take in a game
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Hard but doable if it isn't a very attractive opponent.
 
B. Munich said:
I'm surprised Nagelsmann took the job. Huge risk for him after having failed at Munich.
If the national team disappoints at the home tournament his reputation will be heavily damaged. The influence he can have on the team is very limited. 3 games in October and 2 in November, then a couple of games before the EC will start.
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Did he really fail? I thought his record was quite good aside from the Villarreal loss?
 
SilentWitness said:
Did he really fail? I thought his record was quite good aside from the Villarreal loss?
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Throwing away a 9 points lead after the WC and getting sacked looks like a failure to me.
The team was in a terrible shape and form when the board sacked him. It almost even costs us the league
 
Kasper said:
Hard but doable if it isn't a very attractive opponent.
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I didn't take you for someone, who attends Bayern games regularly. You learn something new every day.
 
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Cheimoon said:
Don't worry, they're not showing up.

(Also because this thread was visible all along and never got their attention anyway!)
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You're just daring him make some chatgpt posts about Gladbach, so you can promote him. I see through you.
 


Kinda unusual for coaches to immerse themselves into local rivalries these days, isn't it?
 
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Piratesoup said:
I'm all for it. We need more spice
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I'm all for drama, too. But I don't think it should happen based on these tweets. Because it's just some random person tasked with manufacturing engagement - or maybe an agency tasked with bolstering Leverkusen's lackluster ticket sales - who tweeted this. Baumgart's side of the exchange may be genuine, but the other is still plastic.

Köln added another reply, too:


And sure, it's kinda funny, but I think it's worth asking yourself: aside from Baumgart's statement - how different is this from wrestling (the redneck version) story lines? Because for all we know it could be the same twitter admin talking to themselves here.
 
I mean, I get that most people don't like Leverkusen and to be honest I even get their reasoning to an extent. But Baumgart is such an insufferable simpleton. He's from the same mould as the RedCafe users who constantly belittle other leagues. He's more or less the embodiment of the reasons why Köln is where it is despite being the 'biggest' club in the region.
 
Zehner said:
I mean, I get that most people don't like Leverkusen and to be honest I even get their reasoning to an extent. But Baumgart is such an insufferable simpleton. He's from the same mould as the RedCafe users who constantly belittle other leagues. He's more or less the embodiment of the reasons why Köln is where it is despite being the 'biggest' club in the region.
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Didn’t Baumgart also say that Bayern should have bought Boniface and not Kane or am I mixing up annoying coaches?
 
Acrobat7 said:
Didn’t Baumgart also say that Bayern should have bought Boniface and not Kane or am I mixing up annoying coaches?
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He said he would have signed him instead of Kane - which changes the perspective a bit because he could buy half of his team with the difference in the transfer fees of those two.
 
This "simpleton" has kept Köln away from relegation worries, playing (relatively speaking) attractive football, despite starting out with a squad that went to the relegation playoff in the previous season and then a gross spend of €7m and net spend of €-30m over his two seasons in charge. His antics also have brought more public interest to the club, as one of our very own redcafe posters is living proof of.
 
do.ob said:
This "simpleton" has kept Köln away from relegation worries, playing (relatively speaking) attractive football, despite starting out with a squad that went to the relegation playoff in the previous season and then a gross spend of €7m and net spend of €-30m over his two seasons in charge. His antics also have brought more public interest to the club, as one of our very own redcafe posters is living proof of.
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I do not want to belittle what he has achieved at all. He just seems to me to be a somewhat unlikeable character. Maybe it's just a character he's playing.
 
do.ob said:
This "simpleton" has kept Köln away from relegation worries, playing (relatively speaking) attractive football, despite starting out with a squad that went to the relegation playoff in the previous season and then a gross spend of €7m and net spend of €-30m over his two seasons in charge. His antics also have brought more public interest to the club, as one of our very own redcafe posters is living proof of.
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Still a simpleton. Constantly dishes out pub sayings. Gets angry at journalists over normal questions. Only wants German speaking players since he can't speak English. Criticizes Germany for trying to play technical demanding football like Spain and instead demands we refocus on the old German virtues of fighting hard and giving it all.

And it is a bit ridiculous how he always tries to look grim and wants to show everybody that he's got a no nonsense attitude.

Cologne fans love him exactly because of this but that kind of judgment is why the club is so unprofessional. They rate his 'authenticity' over professionalism when the latter is what they definitely need more
 
Zehner said:
Still a simpleton. Constantly dishes out pub sayings. Gets angry at journalists over normal questions. Only wants German speaking players since he can't speak English. Criticizes Germany for trying to play technical demanding football like Spain and instead demands we refocus on the old German virtues of fighting hard and giving it all.

And it is a bit ridiculous how he always tries to look grim and wants to show everybody that he's got a no nonsense attitude.

Cologne fans love him exactly because of this but that kind of judgment is why the club is so unprofessional. They rate his 'authenticity' over professionalism when the latter is what they definitely need more
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Well, he doesn't like the business and media circus. That doesn't make him a simpleton.

His criticism of the national team also was fully justified - it lacked mentality and determination. Nothing wrong about demanding classic virtues from them in that case.

And I wonder why you question his professionalism. As @do.ob correctly stated he turned the team around, tried to turn them into a dominant, proactive team (and was mostly successful) and was even able to lead them into the ECL.

I do wonder why especially you who highly rates possession play can criticise a coach who coached his team from being one of the worst in possession to 4th highest possession in the league and in the process created lots of transfer value which keeps the club alive that was badly mismanaged and is massively in debt.

I fully get you not liking him simply because he coaches Köln, but I feel like you are not giving him the respect he deserves. Just call him an a****le and be done with it.
 
Zehner said:
Still a simpleton. Constantly dishes out pub sayings. Gets angry at journalists over normal questions. Only wants German speaking players since he can't speak English. Criticizes Germany for trying to play technical demanding football like Spain and instead demands we refocus on the old German virtues of fighting hard and giving it all.

And it is a bit ridiculous how he always tries to look grim and wants to show everybody that he's got a no nonsense attitude.

Cologne fans love him exactly because of this but that kind of judgment is why the club is so unprofessional. They rate his 'authenticity' over professionalism when the latter is what they definitely need more
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This just reads like you're trying to rationalize your dislike of him.

For example he's a 50 year old, who grew up in the DDR, never played abroad and coached lower leagues until fairly recently. I'd be more surprised if his English skills were great.
I also think focusing on German is not strictly a bad thing for a club like Köln, it's a trade off between size of recruitment pool and easier team building and identification of fans and team with the club. Since they are pretty broke and can't offer European football either they aren't in a position to take their picks from abroad anyway and Germany and it's neighboring countries still provides them with a fairly large pool.

Other than that you're just listing stuff that has little to do with intelligence or professionalism, let alone actual coaching performance.
"He looks grim and isn't friendly enough with the press", seriously?


He gets results, he does so with a distinct / attractive tactical style and he's popular with the media and fans. That's pretty much the holy trinity of being a valuable coach to a club.
 
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B. Munich said:
I'm surprised Nagelsmann took the job. Huge risk for him after having failed at Munich.
If the national team disappoints at the home tournament his reputation will be heavily damaged. The influence he can have on the team is very limited. 3 games in October and 2 in November, then a couple of games before the EC will start.
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Why do you say he failed at Munich ? He was fired while still being in all 3 competitions and as we have seen under Tuchel Bayern didnt play any better at all. I dont think he has failed at all he was simply a Victim of Kahn/Salihamidzic. But of course its all speculation now what would have happened if they kept him and gave him the time risking a Season without a title
 
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