German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

Why people want stuttgart to go down? And instead of Hertha?
 
hellhunter said:
Hertha und der KSC <3

Hertha doesn't exactly make it easy to like them, but still rooting for you
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Yeah, let's avoid playing each other next year. :)

..and I fully understand that a Hertha vs HSV relegation playoff battle would be hilarious to everyone who isn't involved.
 
uamini said:
I knew relying on Bayern was a bad idea. ^^

Stuttgart hasn't won a match since mid-March and now all they have to do is beat Köln at home to secure the 15th Bundesliga spot. I don't think Hertha will stand a chance in Dortmund.
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I don't think beating Cologne (who are playing for the EL still) is an easy task. Just look at how impotent Stuttgart's attack was today, despite Bayern offering them ample space. Kalajdzic seems to be injured again, too.

And I don't think Dortmund beating Hertha is a foregone conclusion either. I think if Hertha go for it and maybe get a bit nasty, there is a good chance that they can get their point. Dortmund's players clearly aren't too bothered with the season anymore, a lot of them will probably be leaving the club and I could see Rose give some minutes to youngsters.

The most likely outcome for me is still that things stay as they are.

However at the very least Stuttgart's draw probably spells the end for Bielefeld, because I don't see how a team whose every goal is a painful struggle can overturn a seven goal deficit. Playing against Leipzig of all teams.
 
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do.ob said:
I don't think beating Cologne (who are playing for the EL still) is an easy task. Just look at how impotent Stuttgart's attack was today, despite Bayern offering them ample space. Kalajdzic seems to be injured again, too.

And I don't think Dortmund beating Hertha is a foregone conclusion either. I think if Hertha go for it and maybe get a bit nasty, there is a good chance that they can get their point. Dortmund's players clearly aren't too bothered with the season anymore, a lot of them will probably be leaving the club and I could see Rose give some minutes to youngsters.

The most likely outcome for me is still that things stay as they are.

However at the very least Stuttgart's draw probably spells the end for Bielefeld, because I don't see how a team that painfully struggles to score every single goal can overturn a seven goal deficit. Against Leipzig of all teams.
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Stuttgart already lost at home against Köln in the cup, so it won't be easy.
 
do.ob said:
Augsburg, like all clubs that abide by 50+1, are controlled by fans. But they have sold some shares to an US investor, who reportedly paid part of Pepi's fee.

I think by US standards he's a pretty big talent, he scored double digits in his last MLS season and he's a starter for their NT.

For me the fun part is less about the player himself (I actually feel a bit sorry for him that he got baited into an Augsburg transfer and seems to be completely out of his depth in Bundesliga) and more about Augsburg randomly pretending to a big club for a day and getting absolutely nothing in return so far.
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Well yeah I know that, the fans control 51% of club votes but the professional team structure is 99% owned by their president and his investment firm. I just looked it up and Hofmann Investoren Gmbh in turn is 40% owned by David Blitzer who's also a minority owner in a bunch of other sports clubs including Crystal Palace.

Of course it's a pretty common structure in the Bundesliga to split the first team ownership from the rest of the club, to attract investments like Dortmund being publicly listed or Bayern partially being owned by Audi, Allianz etc but I'm just surprised it's 99.4% in Augsburg's case. They obviously abide by 50+1 but they're about as privately owned as a club could possibly be in the Bundesliga (excluding 50+1 exceptions like Leverkusen or Wolfsburg). I just find that surprising given you never really hear about it.
 
Boavista said:
Well yeah I know that, the fans control 51% of club votes but the professional team structure is 99% owned by their president and his investment firm. I just looked it up and Hofmann Investoren Gmbh in turn is 40% owned by David Blitzer who's also a minority owner in a bunch of other sports clubs including Crystal Palace.

Of course it's a pretty common structure in the Bundesliga to split the first team ownership from the rest of the club, to attract investments like Dortmund being publicly listed or Bayern partially being owned by Audi, Allianz etc but I'm just surprised it's 99.4% in Augsburg's case. They obviously abide by 50+1 but they're about as privately owned as a club could possibly be in the Bundesliga (excluding 50+1 exceptions like Leverkusen or Wolfsburg). I just find that surprising given you never really hear about it.
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That's the beauty of a Kommanditgesellschaft auf Aktien. Dortmund only hold like 5% of their shares, too. Hertha follow a similar model. but due to the nature of a KGaA ownership and control are almost entirely divorced from each other. So there's not really much to complain about a club like Augsburg selling their capital in order to raise funds. It's only in cases like Hertha's when someone gives "too much" money into a club that people get annoyed. I think Bayern's model is different by the way, as far as I know they actually have to hold on to the majority of their shares.
 
do.ob said:
That's the beauty of a Kommanditgesellschaft auf Aktien. Dortmund only hold like 5% of their shares, too. Hertha follow a similar model. but due to the nature of a KGaA ownership and control are almost entirely divorced from each other. So there's not really much to complain about a club like Augsburg selling their capital in order to raise funds. It's only in cases like Hertha's when someone gives "too much" money into a club that people get annoyed. I think Bayern's model is different by the way, as far as I know they actually have to hold on to the majority of their shares.
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Yes, vastly. Bayern is only allowed to sell up to 25% of their shares. Hence Audi, Allianz and Adidas each holding 8.33%.
 
So now that Leipzig has a comfortable lead these are the things that will be decided next week:

Bundesliga

4th CL spot: Leipzig or Freiburg

Leipzig just need a draw in Bielefeld to qualify and even if they lose, Freiburg would have to win in Leverkusen to pull this off...unlikely, but you never know. Whoever loses out will try to win the cup final as a consolation prize when these two teams meet in Berlin a week later.

EL/ECL spots: Leipzig, Freiburg, Union, Köln

Leipzig/Freiburg are guaranteed an EL spot if they miss out on the CL. Union has a 2 point lead over Köln and plays against Bochum at home. If they don't win then Köln could sneak past them with a win in Stuttgart and get the second EL spot.

Relegation playoff spot: Hertha or Stuttgart

Hertha has a 3 point lead but a much worse goal difference. If Stuttgart win against Köln and Hertha loses in Dortmund they avoid having to play the playoffs.


2. Bundesliga

2nd place (=promotion) and 3rd place (=playoffs): Bremen, HSV, Darmstadt

Werder have a 3 point lead but the worst goal difference of the bunch so they need a point in their home game against Regensburg to get promoted. HSV lead Darmstadt on goal difference, however they play a difficult road game in Rostock whereas Darmstadt face off against Paderborn at home.

Relegation playoffs (2. vs. 3. Bundesliga): Dynamo Dresden vs. Kaiserlautern

This should be fun.


3. Bundesliga

Last team to get relegated: SC Verl or Viktoria Berlin

Verl hold a 2-point lead and they have the better goal difference so a draw in their home game against Duisburg would be enough. Viktoria play Meppen at home.


Regionalliga

Promotion playoffs North vs. North East: Vfb Oldenburg vs. Dynamo Berlin

It's incredible that the most dominant GDR team ever has never made it to a professional league in reunified Germany. This could be the year it happens.


U-19 German championship

Currently in the midst of playing the semi-finals: Hertha vs. Augsburg (first leg: 3:1) and Schalke vs. Dortmund (first leg: 1:5)

It looks like a Hertha vs. Dortmund final. Dortmund has a really good team this year but the final would be played in Berlin. Either way it's pretty nice that Sky shows the U-17 (Schalke won) and U-19 finals.
 
Whatever happened to 1860 Munich?

Can remember them going down to regional league a few years back so I assume they are still a total mess at boardroom level?

Say to see Ingolstadt getting relegated again from Bundesliga 2, they've had some fun stints in Bundesliga in last decade and randomly had Effenberg manage them.

Edit: Apologies, that was Paderborn.
 
uamini said:
Regionalliga

Promotion playoffs North vs. North East: Vfb Oldenburg vs. Dynamo Berlin

It's incredible that the most dominant GDR team ever has never made it to a professional league in reunified Germany. This could be the year it happens.
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I know little about DDR football history, but weren't they propped up heavily by their Stasi connection and don't they have a lot of shaved heads at their games these days? It doesn't seem that hard to believe that people weren't very fond of them after the DDR's collapse.

I'd also like to submit the promotion race of the West division:

ZbLVduL.png


RWE and Preußen are two pretty big clubs in their own right and Preußen used to lead the table by two points after the direct matchup between the two had to be cancelled and ruled against Essen at a 1:1 score line, because an Essen fan threw a fire cracker at a player. However with two matches to go ever desperate Essen decided to sack their coach, despite winning their previous three games with a 10:1 goal tally. And what do you know Preußen felt the pressure and drew their next game, so now there's just one game to go and two goals between the two.

U-19 German championship

Currently in the midst of playing the semi-finals: Hertha vs. Augsburg (first leg: 3:1) and Schalke vs. Dortmund (first leg: 1:5)

It looks like a Hertha vs. Dortmund final. Dortmund has a really good team this year but the final would be played in Berlin. Either way it's pretty nice that Sky shows the U-17 (Schalke won) and U-19 finals.
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If I remember correctly the u19 games have been broadcasted for a while now, be it DFB's youtube channel or Sport 1. And Dortmund's u19 is so stacked this year, it would be quite the shock if they don't win it convincingly.
 
do.ob said:
That's the beauty of a Kommanditgesellschaft auf Aktien. Dortmund only hold like 5% of their shares, too. Hertha follow a similar model. but due to the nature of a KGaA ownership and control are almost entirely divorced from each other. So there's not really much to complain about a club like Augsburg selling their capital in order to raise funds. It's only in cases like Hertha's when someone gives "too much" money into a club that people get annoyed. I think Bayern's model is different by the way, as far as I know they actually have to hold on to the majority of their shares.
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Yeah that makes sense I guess, still for some reason the fact that the Club president of a club like Augsburg essentially owns the first team just feels different than Dortmund's shares being publicly traded with just a small number of more significant shareholders. Odd choice to buy Pepi if they decided to open their wallets, but I guess it makes sense they would eventually finance some relatively more expensive players if they have ambitions for the club. And who knows, it's early days, maybe Pepi does still turn out to be good business.

I mean even Hertha only sold like 60% to Windhorst I think? By the way did he actually inject a lot more money into the club beyond the capital raised through the share purchases? I know they spent a lot of money on players because of Windhorst and that comically failed, but was that just the capital raised from shares sold or separate funds made available?
 
Boavista said:
Yeah that makes sense I guess, still for some reason the fact that the Club president of a club like Augsburg essentially owns the first team just feels different than Dortmund's shares being publicly traded with just a small number of more significant shareholders. Odd choice to buy Pepi if they decided to open their wallets, but I guess it makes sense they would eventually finance some relatively more expensive players if they have ambitions for the club. And who knows, it's early days, maybe Pepi does still turn out to be good business.

I mean even Hertha only sold like 60% to Windhorst I think? By the way did he actually inject a lot more money into the club beyond the capital raised through the share purchases? I know they spent a lot of money on players because of Windhorst and that comically failed, but was that just the capital raised from shares sold or separate funds made available?
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The Pepi transfer just sounds like someone from the US had too much money and too little understanding of football or at least Augsburg. It's just not a club that's set up to make attacking talents shine. But someone probably thought it was really clever, because the club could get a significant following in the US if Pepi becomes a star.

As far as I know every Cent Windhorst spent was in exchange for club shares, but his valuation of Hertha seemed absolutely crazy at the time.
 
do.ob said:
I know little about DDR football history, but weren't they propped up heavily by their Stasi connection and don't they have a lot of shaved heads at their games these days? It doesn't seem that hard to believe that people weren't very fond of them after the DDR's collapse.
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I believe they've made a bit of progress as far as right-wing fans are concerned but they definitely have a highly problematic core of violent hooligans (over 100 of them are classified as category C by the DFB, the most dangerous type). If both Dynamos land in the same league it's not going to end well.


Oh, and good call about Essen and Münster. At least they won't have to play an extra playoff game like other league winners at that level.
 


Sky's Schalke reporter claims a fan visited and returned this microphone, which he "accidentally" took with him on Saturday. There's still ten more missing and he's available if people realize they don't have a use for them after all or don't feel like getting prosecuted.

stefan92 said:
Schalke never disappoint, even when they can celebrate https://www.kicker.de/grammozis-vertrag-auf-schalke-verlaengert-901381/artikel

They relieved manager Grammozis from his duties during the season, but because they got promoted his contract got automatically extended for another year. So they have another ex-manager on their payroll :lol:
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To be fair Grammozis probably gave a lot of way to Schalke's predicament, when he signed a 15 month contract with "just" €600k p.a. wages. So yes, it looks funny now, but it was probably good business from Schalke to negotiate such a contract in the first place and having the freak case that they sacked their coach and still won promotion is probably a scenario that they would happily go for again.
 
Why do clubs make these videos?



It's not even heroic tackles or anything. Just thuggish fouls and other bad behavior.
 


Puma forgot to make a shitty "innovative" design this year.
:drool:
 


Bild report Brazzo made a desperate last ditch effort to hijack a transfer vol 1747372. Do they hate him that much or is he really that bad?
 
Is the tweet accurate? Because it would imply that Salihamidzic can make offers that the club deems too expensive which is difficult to believe.
 
JPRouve said:
Is the tweet accurate? Because it would imply that Salihamidzic can make offers that the club deems too expensive which is difficult to believe.
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Calling up an agent is not the same as a binding offer. In theory the SD has a certain autonomy, some CEOs are more involved, some less and in the end every big transaction needs approval from the supervisory board, but those guys aren't supposed to dictate strategy. So it's entirely possible that he didn't want to offer €20m p.a. for strategic reasons, but then changed his mind.

And "Bayern" in that tweet could just refer to Brazzo.
 
JPRouve said:
Is the tweet accurate? Because it would imply that Salihamidzic can make offers that the club deems too expensive which is difficult to believe.
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He is part of the club board and it is plausible that after the failures of this season they agreed that they might need to spend more than originally planned.
 
do.ob said:
Calling up an agent is not the same as a binding offer. In theory the SD has a certain autonomy, some CEOs are more involved, some less and in the end every big transaction needs approval from the supervisory board, but those guys aren't supposed to dictate strategy. So it's entirely possible that he didn't want to offer €20m p.a. for strategic reasons, but then changed his mind.

And "Bayern" in that tweet could just refer to Brazzo.
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But certain autonomy stops at the words "too expensive", if you read something like that you know that it's not the decision of a single person, unless that person is at the top of the hierarchy. And I don't think that Bayern and Salihamidzic are supposed to be interchangeable but I could be wrong.
 
JPRouve said:
But certain autonomy stops at the words "too expensive", if you read something like that you know that it's not the decision of a single person, unless that person is at the top of the hierarchy. And I don't think that Bayern and Salihamidzic are supposed to be interchangeable but I could be wrong.
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For sure Salihamidzic won't make such expensive decisions on his own, but above him in the hierarchy is only Oliver Kahn (CEO). It makes a lot of sense that Kahn and Salihamidzic quickly after the defeat agreed that they need to spend more money on that area, and if they increased their transfer budget for a new CB Rüdiger became a possibility again. It's not like a huge board has to agree, this is a business decision made by two people who won a lot of stuff together as players for Bayern.
 
JPRouve said:
But certain autonomy stops at the words "too expensive", if you read something like that you know that it's not the decision of a single person, unless that person is at the top of the hierarchy. And I don't think that Bayern and Salihamidzic are supposed to be interchangeable but I could be wrong.
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But technically €20m p.a. is not too expensive for Bayern. They can afford to pay that much and are paying even more to some of their players. So the position 'too much' is not one for the supervisory board, but the management, because it's of strategical nature.
And Brazzo is basically the sporting side of the management. So he's the one deciding how Bayern want to spend their budget and if he thinks they don't need a €20m p.a. defender, then that becomes Bayern's position. Though of course others would have to approve an actual transfer.
 
do.ob said:
But technically €20m p.a. is not too expensive for Bayern. They can afford to pay that much and are paying even more to some of their players. So the position 'too much' is not one for the supervisory board, but the management, because it's of strategical nature.
And Brazzo is basically the sporting side of the management. So he's the one deciding how Bayern want to spend their budget and if he thinks they don't need a €20m p.a. defender, then that becomes Bayern's position. Though of course others would have to approve an actual transfer.
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Which is why I asked whether the tweet was accurate because there is a difference between too expensive and not good value/not needed. Who looks bad depends on why a decision was taken.
 
JPRouve said:
Which is why I asked whether the tweet was expensive because there is a difference between too expensive and not good value/not needed. Who looks bad depends on why a decision was taken.
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It's Bild/Falk, so when in doubt always assume it's poorly worded or incorrect.
 
do.ob said:


Bild report Brazzo made a desperate last ditch effort to hijack a transfer vol 1747372. Do they hate him that much or is he really that bad?
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Let's just say I'm currently really envious of the job the team of Kehl, Sammer and Watzke are doing at Dortmund.

That being said, Mazraoui on a free transfer and Gravenvenberch for a decent transfer fee are two promising deals.

But that's all fine and dandy. The big task for Bayern is to find a good solution to replace Lewandowski. For that they kinda have to get 30 to 40 million € from Barce-where-the-hell-is-all-that-money-coming-from-lona for Lewa this season to reinvest in the new center-forward. Cause that one is gonna be expensive.
 
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