Rules say the ref can't continue the game until the substitutions are done. When there are 12 men on the pitch then the ref messed up because he's the one that has to make sure that 1 player leaves the pitch and 1 player gets on. That's literally his job.
German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke
- Thread starter do.ob
- Start date
So you're saying Bayern should be docked points or straight be relegated
?What is Terzic doing these days?
Are they having a fire drill in Dortmund or why are the fans all leaving with 10+ mins to go?
Dortmund is an absolute mess in this game vs Leipzig.
Officially he is Dortmund's "Technical Director". A role he could surely leave on short notice to take over another one in the club...
Rose isn't going anywhere. No one will be giving him top marks for this season, but the problems go much deeper than coaching. The squad's cycle has run its course and it's time for a rebuild. I think it's somewhat similar to Bosz's season. Players like Brandt, Hazard and Witsel more or less worked out for Favre's defending with the ball approach, but they are out of place in Rose's system, Hummels and Reus aren't getting any younger and the former has had a severe case of Euros hangover. Haaland's output is beyond reproach, but in his own way he's been a problem, too: on one hand the team has to be built around him, but on the other he's been injured or out of shape for like half the season and when the team struggles his way of playing tends to add to the problem. On top of that there's been a comical amount of injuries at the club in general.
The fact that Rose can't afford to drop Witsel despite his obvious flaws and has to keep playing Wolf in attack speaks for itself. The club has lost sight of the core principles that brought success under Klopp and has paid the price for it this season. They will start to readjust with the coming summer window and after the most glaring issues have been addressed Rose will be under the usual scrutiny. But it would be silly to make him the scapegoat for things the management bears responsibility for.
Again I would like to raise the question if this is - at least to a certain degree - Rose's fault and therefore not an excuse for but more a point against him.
That's impossible to judge from the outside.
True. Yet I think this might be the most important question about Rose the club should investigate internally.
Hopefully that spells relegation for Bayern, based on violation of fundamental principles of the game.
Even the worst management probably couldn't ignore such ridiculous string of muscle injuries. But I'm not sure that's something the head coach would stumble over. It's the job of athletics coaches to get the players fit and it's the job of sports scientists and doctors to manage health and clear players for action. Unless the coach is deliberately going against their advice, I think it's more likely that changes will be made at a lower level.
That seems fair. I also think the rest of the league should be allowed to pick one of their players per club, starting with the team with the name that bears the biggest similarities to them
Sky reports that Leipzig are about to sign Domenico "The numbers don't reflect what we intended to do. If we go for the second ball and play the first one to the opposition intentionally, it's only natural that our pass% goes down." Tedesco.
Unbelievable
I told you though, they're done as a club.
Those quotes didn't age too well, did they?
Tedesco so far with 12 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses in 18 matches so far. One of the losses against Bayern, one of the wins a 4:1 over BVB. 47 to 16 goals as well.
Results are good, but I still stand by this:
Case in point yesterday's game where they got choked by Dortmund from the start, but scored two goals from two mistakes.
I think that lack of a proactive plan, the reliance on hard fought victories, individual brilliance and chance will catch up with teams sooner or later. Few of their games are really convincing outplays. Given the ridiculous season Nkunku is having his departure in the summer could already be enough to clip Tedesco's wings.
Olmo and Szoboszlai aren't too bad either. Anyway, Dortmund also had only two chances in the first half, one of which was a blunder by Simakan after a deflected cross by Wolf. Not really the epitome of football culture either. Leipzig also won the xG comparison. So errors were responsible or 3 out of 4 major chances in the first half. And let's be real, Can is notorious for mistakes like this. If you play him you have to expect something like this to happen and can't just exclamate it. He's dangling on the ball as much as Pogba only that his Hollywood passes never find their targets.
Personally, I'd be more critical of Rose after this game. Don't get how he can play Can and Wolf over Dahoud, Brandt and Reyna. I'd be very disappointed by the line up as a BVB fan. It was a bit oowardly.
I wasn't a great performance from Dortmund and considering how the team fell apart after Leipzig's goals is was a more than deserved loss. But for the first 20 minutes the stats were 5-0 shots Dortmund 65-35 possession Dortmund, 82-74 pass success in Dortmund's favor, 1-0 corners in Dortmund's favor and Nkunku had just three touches. They didn't really press, they didn't create anything and they were barely able to leave their half.
Then Can had his moment and Leipzig scored with their first shot of the game. 10 minutes later Emre Can defleced a nothing shot into his own goal. I find it ridiculous to suggest that this was a master piece from Tedesco. His side got outplayed until two goals fell into their lap and then their opposition started crumbling. That was because of Dortmund's defensive weakness and good individual moments from Leipzig, rather than a tactical master plan that paid off.
Also the personnel choices are rather simple. Rose was using a back three, so he couldn't really play his attacking midfielders at RCB instead of Can. Reyna wasn't fit to start, because he was with the US team, Dahoud had some fitness issues during the week and Julian Brandt continues to suffer from the fact that he's Julian Brandt, so Rose was forced to rely on Wolf, in order to be able to have a functioning pressing.
But actually that has been a successful strategy against Dortmund for long years as they always used to start strong but if they did not score lose steam somewhen.
You can of course argue that it's okay to be passive against Dortmund, but my point wasn't just about Dortmund, it's that his team is reactive in general. Which means when the opposition don't mess up or resort to hoofing it, instead of risking a painful turnover, then his football tends to run out of ideas quickly.
Julian Brandt may be suffering from being Julian Brandt but at least he's not suffering from being Emre Can or Marius Wolf. He was refreshing immediately after he came on and you could see that Dortmund was in dire need of players like him who can actually do something progresssive with a football. So however you put it, Rose at this point has a history of picking work ethic, directness and physicality over technique and subtlety. Not the sort of coaching profile top clubs typically look at.
And for what it's worth Dortmund had 0.3 xG at the end of the first half, again the major contributor to that being a chance gifted by Simakan the same way Can gifted Leipzig their first goal. When that's something to write home about you know it was a lackluster performance.
I mean Klopp championed Kevin Großkreutz over Ivan Perisic, Tuchel favoured Erik Durm over Pulisic and other more talented players and Marcel Schmelzer over Guerreiro as LB. It's nothing crazy to favor role players over more talented players for stability reasons.
I never said that Dortmund played a good game on the whole, but they were in comfortably in charge until Can did his thing. And if you want to look at xG you should check out Leipzig's too.
69th minute - 3:0 Augsburg vs Wolfsburg... Kohfeldt's team playing like Kohfeldt's teams?
Augsburg now 14th with a game (against Mainz) in hand. Could even overtake Wolfsburg with a win on Wednesday and go on rank 13.
Augsburg now 14th with a game (against Mainz) in hand. Could even overtake Wolfsburg with a win on Wednesday and go on rank 13.
Big win for Augsburg:
Three points clear of Bielefeld, the game against Mainz in hand, GD and momentum on their side as well now. Stuttgart are playing genuinely decent football for the most part, Kalajdzic has started to score goals again, it's getting harder to look past Bielefeld and Hertha for relegation.
Three points clear of Bielefeld, the game against Mainz in hand, GD and momentum on their side as well now. Stuttgart are playing genuinely decent football for the most part, Kalajdzic has started to score goals again, it's getting harder to look past Bielefeld and Hertha for relegation.
Let's give it some time.
For sure, that squad has issues that go beyond coaching. But it can hardly be denied that Rose is getting a lot less out these folks than Terzic did. I don't think you can really afford another year of awful Roseball
Terzic had the team with one foot out of the CL. It was only after they had seemingly lost top four that the team really pulled it together and even then it wouldn't have been enough if the other teams hadn't lost steam. And the squad was in much better shape back then: for starters he had Sancho, who really turned it up towards the end of season. Haaland, too, was like a different player compared to this season, where he's always injured and even when he isn't you have to wonder about his motivation.
I don't see reason to expect that he'd do better in the current situation. And apparently the management don't either. After all, they were the ones, who replaced him with Rose and since he's still on the payroll they could reverse that switch easily at any time.
I mean it would be one thing if some prodigy like Nagelsmann or young Tuchel were available, but if they sack Rose for the sins of the management and buy out / give another mediocre coach a contract that could screw things up much more than giving Rose another year.
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I don't think those cases are comparable and even if they were, it wouldn't mean much since Tuchel's and Klopp's team never looked as uninspired as Dortmund lately.
Yes, Leipzig's wasn't good either. But Dortmund was not only the favorite but also played at home in front of a full stadium. The expectations were much higher for them than for Leipzig and rightfully so.
Regarding Can: If I remember correctly you once told me Leverkusen's players didn't have the quality to play good possession football sometime during Bosz' tenure here. Let me put it like this, I wouldn't want Can in our team.
I think it's pretty self explanatory to say that a pressing is only as good as its weakest link and therefore coaches that want to rely on it will draw a firm line, when certain players fall off too much.
It's not exactly like Dortmund are an unstoppable force at the moment, is it? They were probably still favorites, but that doesn't make a "sit back and hope for the best" approach any more sophisticated.
You do realize that Can is literally the first player that has already been replaced for last season? And if the press is to be believed the club want to sell him, too.
So Freiburg have officially appealed against Saturday's result against Bayern (where they had lost 1-4) due to the substitution mess up that had Bayern fielding 12 players for a short bit. And why wouldn't they.
Worst case for the FCB I guess is that the DFB court awards Freiburg a default 2-0 win, though I honestly can't see them taking such a rather draconic step. Wonder what other punishments are possible? Game repetition? Fine? And will the referee or 4th official be punished? And will Zwayer who was VAR finally be done?
Worst case for the FCB I guess is that the DFB court awards Freiburg a default 2-0 win, though I honestly can't see them taking such a rather draconic step. Wonder what other punishments are possible? Game repetition? Fine? And will the referee or 4th official be punished? And will Zwayer who was VAR finally be done?
Forced relegation, obviously
Harsh on Freiburg
Well played
On a more serious note: I don’t see the point of the appeal. The result will not be reversed and there won’t be a rematch. The impact of the erroneous substitution was just not material.Well played
Look at who‘s at fault and fine them or whatever is deemed necessary. I didn’t watch the game but only reading about what happened it seems the fourth ref is the one who should get most of the blame. After all he let a Bayern player onto the pitch without one leaving it.
What's more, as is surprisingly often the case with football rules and laws, there simply doesn't seem to be a clearly formulated rule. I mean, of course everyone knows you're supposed to have 11 players, but it's not actually written down, apparently, what happens if there are more
The one floated about with the "fielding non-eligible players" is of course nonsense as both Coman and Sabitzer were, obviously, eligible to play. It's clear that Freiburg have to appeal, by default, but yeah there won't be anything coming out of it.
Honestly I'm not sure how this can happen with 4th officials and also VAR. What are they doing? They already cost Van Bommel his job by telling him he had more subs available than he actually did, this season. It's kind of laughable.
Freiburg released a lengthy statement:
tl;dr:
they don't formulate any kind of expectation of changing the outcome of the game, but they claim it's their obligation towards their stake holders and the integrity of the competition to (reluctantly) force a court to clear this up.
Sounds fairly reasonable to me.
Yeah, of course they had to appeal. You can't not appeal something like this.
They also said that they found themselves in a strange situation being the only ones who had nothing to do with this and being the ones pressing charges just because that's what they need to do to clear this up.
It doesn't matter how big of an impact it had on the game. We had 12 guys on the pitch, and this is obviously not allowed. I fully expect the result to be overthrown, and rightfully so.
i still wonder what Coman was thinking. Possibly something like "yes that was my number the last 3-odd years, no one currently has that number, and usually i get subbed at that time of the match. They can't possibly mean me"
Find it a bit strange, that Coman is always mentioned for the fault in the german media . Yeah he was to be substituted and meant. But what about Sabitzer? There is this very difficult rule: One player comes off and you can come in. In the lowest leagues, everybody understands this.