Absolutely. I always have to actively resist the urge to call them "Dortmund United" on here, but comparing those two clubs really shows a lot of similar issues.
German Football 2024/25
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
And - to the surprise of absolutely no one - Sahin is gone.
Now they only havce to fire Ricken and Kehl and put Watzke into a retirement home and they might have a chance to become a serious club again.
Before they sack those three, they'll just buy Stuttgart
Hoeneß would be a great signing for them, but I don't really see what's in it for him at this stage.
I'm sure Hoeneß wouldn't want to leave now and in the summer I think he has a release clause that can only be triggered by clubs playing in Europe (or even only the CL might count for that). So likely not Dortmund
Under 19s coach Mike Tullberg takes over for Dortmund‘s game v Bremen on Saturday.
Niko Kovac and a certain Erik ten Hag candidates for the rest of the season.
Niko Kovac and a certain Erik ten Hag candidates for the rest of the season.
Kovac should be fun. Considering how he wants football to be played and how Dortmund's players currently do it I would give him not more than two weeks until he breaks his foot due to kicking his players a***es
Kovac is the Emre Can of coaches, so it might be a great fit.
It's honestly insane how Dortmund turned from a very well managed football club to this Kovac? Seriously?
Kovac? Seriously?Small addition to the discussion about Tom Bischof: https://www.reddit.com/r/fcbayern/s/8kGoyEh9MH
His stats are really impressive, in attack AND defense.
His stats are really impressive, in attack AND defense.
The past few weeks of BV Bollywood have been fun to watch as a Bayern fan, but nah, their fans don't deserve Kovac.It's honestly insane how Dortmund turned from a very well managed football club to this
Too good looking for the Dortmund region?
It would be hilarious, if Dortmund indeed hired ETH and Rashford to save their season.
The 2 names, which stand for the only bigger disappointment in European football than Dortmund.
Perfect fit for more chaos. Can't wait to happen.
The 2 names, which stand for the only bigger disappointment in European football than Dortmund.
Perfect fit for more chaos. Can't wait to happen.
ETH was probably a viable option until our board realised he'd want to spend quarter of a billion on average-tier Eredivisie players.
We really aren't comparable to United, not even close. Utd's issue is their propensity to pay inflated transfer fees and wages for mediocre, overrated, or over the hill players; Dortmund can hardly afford their business model i.e. Sancho joined Chelsea after his loan with us because we will not pay what rich PL clubs offer. Atleti made Simeone the best remunerated coach worldwide in order to keep him and that isn't an option for us after Klopp left. We suffer from Watzke & co's longstanding acceptance and commitment to being a short-term stepping stone for top players and trainers who can all leave on good terms for the right fee. Such a policy is contingent on our scouts finding a consistent stream of top talents to replace the departures but what if we can't keep unearthing new gems to replace a Haaland or Bellingham every season? What if our scouts get poached? If we constantly sell our best prospects at the age of their highest potential instead of holding onto them for longer, then we need to either replace them immediately with quality (BVB can't afford this, we aren't Utd and in fact they are one of the many vulture clubs buying our players) or we will always face dips in form from season to season due to a constant need to develop and improve new youngsters til they become as reliable as the 100mio player who just left. No one can guarantee that the new 18yo from France or England will become a top player in 1-2 seasons which is what we need if we are going to sell our best prospects for a big fee every 2 seasons as how Aki wants; hence it's inevitable that team performances will become unpredictable and chaotic due to this transfer policy given that Redbull, City Football Group and Chelsea are also out there competing with us for top youth player signatures.
Of course, we are also vultures and what I've described is a problem faced by all clubs other than the top-of-the-food-chain destinations, but Dortmund is expected to put in performances befitting of being Germany's top 2 biggest clubs and can't yoyo like HSV or S04. If we had United money we'd be more resistant to vulture clubs poaching our top prospects and be able to contest for more established players instead of youths or players who aren't good enough for top tier clubs. Even if they don't qualify for the CL, clubs at the top of the food chain like City, Utd, or Chelsea are still able to keep their best e.g. Palmer/Enzo and sign their targets like Yoro or Ugarte for big fees which isn't possible for Dortmund, if we don't make the CL our top players will leave (should've sacked Sahin earlier since this is the reality). Hence there is just no comparison and we've done quite well all things considered given that we did reach a CL final recently, it's not like we are retrenching tea ladies or increasing child ticket prices so we can pay Anthony's wages.
That said, we aren't a serious club if we let players to join our main BL rivals on good terms then welcome them back even if they are in bad shape or form e.g. Kagawa, Sahin, Götze. Football isn't a charity business, especially not in this era where only Barca and RM are realistically able to keep up with PL revenues.
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Excuse me?
https://www.deloitte.com/uk/en/serv.../analysis/deloitte-football-money-league.html
But of course I fundamentally agree with your post. For me, Dortmund can't be compared to United either, the problems are of a completely different nature.
Personally, I think that Dortmund rely too much upon pedigree to maintain authenticity and that sporting success is sacrificed for this. Of course, this is not intentional, but the result of it. I'm not too close to the club, but it doesn't seem to me that Kehl and Ricken have the necessary qualifications for their jobs.
And selling talent to Barca and Real for huge money is good. But when you look at the players Dortmund buys with that money, you can only shake your head. Over the last seven or so years, practically no profit has been made from player sales. Everything was reinvested in players.
Sounds as if you describe Süle, Can, Bensebaini, Brandt...
Quite a few players in Dortmund squad fit that, which is why I think it's comparable.
If you look at it that way, I understand what you mean. It's just at a different financial level. But the main difference for me is the club structure and the people involved. The ones at United might be just as useless, but at least they're not ex-players who are being given a job - for which they're not qualified - to do them a favour.
Didn't we have lots of discussions about "jobs for the boys" here about United as well? By now that stopped, but I do remember that from the Ole years mostly.
So surely it's on a different financial level, but there really are parallels.
Another similarity to United is that Dortmund is no longer capable of getting the best out of the players they sign. I think the development of Malen and Adeyemi highlights that pretty well. Malen finished 22/23 with 13 scorers in his last 10 matches, Adeyemi with 10 in 11. Had they continued this form, they would have been their next high profile exits. But they didn't and IMO the reason for that is that the team was very dysfunctional ever since. Almost every player looks like a shadow of his former self and that's a terrible platform to showcase your talent as somebody like Adeyemi, Duranville or Gittens.
I think this is what happens when you feck up your coach appointments. And here the nepotism stuff comes into play. This would frighten me as a Dortmund fan. It would be one hell of a coincidence if the best people for the respective positions in the club hierarchy all happen to coincidently be ex-players. But they even create new positions to squeeze another familiar face into the club structure like they did with Terzic or now Mislintat. I mean, I get why you'd get Misilintat back but if you do, be consequentia and sack Kehl or give him Ricken's current position and leave Ricken in charge of the academy. I have honestly no idea who's responsible for what at that club. It seems as if Kehl, Mislintat, Ricken and the coach are all responsible for squad management with Sammer "consulting" them on everything as well and Watzke having the final word on all matters anyway.
If I were a Dortmund fan, I would probably want Mislintat in charge of the squad management and Watzke as the one who oversees the financial management of the club but has no say in sporting matters anymore. Let Ricken manage the academy again, sack Sammer and have the coach focus on the coaching instead of having such a big say on transfer business.
I think this is what happens when you feck up your coach appointments. And here the nepotism stuff comes into play. This would frighten me as a Dortmund fan. It would be one hell of a coincidence if the best people for the respective positions in the club hierarchy all happen to coincidently be ex-players. But they even create new positions to squeeze another familiar face into the club structure like they did with Terzic or now Mislintat. I mean, I get why you'd get Misilintat back but if you do, be consequentia and sack Kehl or give him Ricken's current position and leave Ricken in charge of the academy. I have honestly no idea who's responsible for what at that club. It seems as if Kehl, Mislintat, Ricken and the coach are all responsible for squad management with Sammer "consulting" them on everything as well and Watzke having the final word on all matters anyway.
If I were a Dortmund fan, I would probably want Mislintat in charge of the squad management and Watzke as the one who oversees the financial management of the club but has no say in sporting matters anymore. Let Ricken manage the academy again, sack Sammer and have the coach focus on the coaching instead of having such a big say on transfer business.
Back to the title race: The CL results this week really make it interesting. Now it seems highly likely that Leverkusen will directly qualify for R16, but München will have to go through the playoffs. And which match happens in between the playoff matches? Leverkusen - München.
A well rested Leverkusen against Bayern who will be frustrated that they even have to do those extra matches (and might be in trouble after the first leg) could really spice things up.
A well rested Leverkusen against Bayern who will be frustrated that they even have to do those extra matches (and might be in trouble after the first leg) could really spice things up.
I have to say, I'm not particularly optimistic regarding the match against them. In the last two games, Munich was much more impressive. The results speak for Alonso's approach and admittedly, Bayern didn't have a lot of big chances but I'm not a fan of the 'park the bus' tactics we apply against good teams this season. We even did that against Dortmund a couple of weeks ago and it almost backfired massively. If we don't get our act together for that match, I don't think we'll get out of that with just a bruise for a third time. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have to face them completely on the front food but we should at least make much more out of the possession phases we'll have after we've beaten their counter pressing.
Bayern hasn't won a single top match this season. There is a lot to be optimistic about for you.
That Leipzig defender trying to act like a tough guy against Wirtz for literally no reason and a second later Wirtz dummies him leading to the 0-1 Love to see it.
Love to see it.Dier‘s assist for Kane marks the first time in Bundesliga history that an English player assisted another English player. Huge day for England. Probably their biggest ever footballing accomplishment.
You mean we should finally start seeing England as a serious football country?
Don't go overboard now. It's just a nice anecdote.
No. But they took a small step in that direction.
Es ist kommend heim
Lukas Hradecký just became the second player in the Bundesliga history to play 50 league games in a row without a defeat. No idea who the first one was.
Not sure either but probably Jerome Boateng
Maybe Thiago or Müller? I kinda remember a stat like that.
Boateng is correct. 56 matches without a loss. So a few more and Hradecký’s got the record.
Hoffenheim (H)
Wolfsburg (A)
Bayern (H)
Holstein Kiel (A)
Frankfurt (A)
Bremen (H)
Stuttgart (A)
That’s a big ask.
That assumes Hradecky gets those matches which isn't guaranteed as Kovar also gets starts in the league this season
Only 2 out of 19, but yeah that is still a possibility. Most of the upcoming opponents are in the top 9 so perhaps not. Maybe against the two bottom teams.
Against Leipzig and Mainz. He also currently plays all CL games. He is trusted against big teams, so that wouldn't be a problem.
I don’t think it’d be a problem, just saying it’s unlikely. If there is an opponent that is particularly good in pressing, I’d definitely play him ahead of the Finn.
Oh and Hradecký was unavailable for the Leipzig game.
Yes, especially since we really struggle this season against teams which press high and recycle possession well. Kovar's ball playing ability is very helpful in those situations.
New attendance record in the 2. Bundesliga: 322K visitors this weekend or 35.830 per match....and all this in January!
It's even crazier if you consider that HSV, Kaiserslautern, Düsseldorf and Nürnberg were all playing away games.
It's even crazier if you consider that HSV, Kaiserslautern, Düsseldorf and Nürnberg were all playing away games.
I expected Kane's goal to get more love. Such good CF play.
Talks about Victor Boniface going to Saudi - would be incredible sad waste of talent.