German Football 20/21

hellhunter said:
11th and 12th this season, while Nürnberg was nearly relegated last season. Not sure they belong in this list.
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Bochum, Kiel and Fürth finished 8th, 11th and 9th last season.
The year before that Bielfeld ran away with it after finishing 7th in their last season.
The year before that Union got promoted after they previously finished 8th and Paderborn just went straight from 3rd to 1st division.
The year before that Düsseldorf and Nürnberg finished first and second after finishing 11th and 12th the year before, while Kiel, being newly promoted, made the playoff.

It's the gimmick of the 2nd division that there are always one or two different sides who have a great season out of "nowhere". And it's why all those clubs who "have" to earn promotion are so fecked now. Because there are like 3-5 legitimately big clubs who everyone expects to duke it out and then there will be another one or two surprise clubs, who have built into their one great season for a couple of years.
 
do.ob said:
Bochum, Kiel and Fürth finished 8th, 11th and 9th last season.
Bielefeld finished 7th a year before running away with it.
The year before Union got promoted they finished 8th and Paderborn were a newly promoted side.
The year before that Düsseldorf and Nürnberg finished first and second after finishing 11th and 12th the year before, while Kiel, being newly promoted, made the playoff.

It's the gimmick of the 2nd division that there are always one or two different sides who have a great season out of "nowhere".
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Absolutely, but considering how close Nürnberg got to relegation last season, I wouldn't count them to the powerhouses of the second league.
 
hellhunter said:
Absolutely, but considering how close Nürnberg got to relegation last season, I wouldn't count them to the powerhouses of the second league.
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I don't follow the 2nd division closely enough to make predictions, but weren't Bochum in exactly the same situation last season? Flirting with relegation, then finishing midtable?



Stuttgart keeper Gregor Kobel being asked "is Dortmund a topic [for you?]" "they sure are"

Don't even need sports gossip reporters anymore, the players are doing it for us.
 
do.ob said:
I don't follow the 2nd division closely enough to make predictions, but weren't Bochum in exactly the same situation last season? Flirting with relegation, then finishing midtable?
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They finished 8th, while Nürnberg was actually playing the relegation playoff, or am I mixing up years?
Anyhow, somewhat drifting off on a tangent here.
 
Koln, Schalke and Werder Bremen relegated. Wow. Ten years ago we played against Schalke in a CL semi final. Football really can in unexpected directions sometimes.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
What happened to Werder Bremen? Been in the Bundesliga since 1981
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I'd love a financial breakdown, ideally of their past decade or so. I've yet to be convinced they didn't get relegated on purpose to dodge that horrendous Selke fee.
 
hellhunter said:
They finished 8th, while Nürnberg was actually playing the relegation playoff, or am I mixing up years?
Anyhow, somewhat drifting off on a tangent here.
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That is correct. I was comparing Nürnberg 20/21 to Bochum 19/20.
 
Cloud7 said:
Koln, Schalke and Werder Bremen relegated. Wow. Ten years ago we played against Schalke in a CL semi final. Football really can in unexpected directions sometimes.
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Not yet, they're playing the relegation playoff vs either Fürth, Kiel or Bochum. 3rd place in the second division will be decided tomorrow.
 
hellhunter said:
Not yet, they're playing the relegation playoff vs either Fürth, Kiel or Bochum. 3rd place in the second division will be decided tomorrow.
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Ah okay :nervous:

The one that surprised me the most was Schalke. I don't really get the chance to follow German football, so I've not been aware of how clubs have been doing outside of Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig, but to see that Schalke are dead last on the table, that came as a surprise to me.
 
Cloud7 said:
Ah okay :nervous:

The one that surprised me the most was Schalke. I don't really get the chance to follow German football, so I've not been aware of how clubs have been doing outside of Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig, but to see that Schalke are dead last on the table, that came as a surprise to me.
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They had a historically shit season, stuff of legends.
 
hellhunter said:
They had a historically shit season, stuff of legends.
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putting it mildly tbh
football has been very painful for me this season (at what point in time can we say "last" season? Relegation playoffs? Or are we correct and use that term if the next season has started, so on the 23rd of July? I want the current one to be over and forgotten please).
 
Gonna be a mint 2nd division Super League next season :devil:
 
There is a saying when it comes to stealing records in germany:

"Kaum gestohlen schon in Polen"
 
GhastlyHun said:
End of an era today, when Alaba, Boateng, and Martinez will all play their last game for Bayern. That's three out of our five players who won the treble twice.
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Devastating. Turns out Boateng was the one whose farewell hit closest to home, for me, today. So sad to have to do this without fans to speak of. I hope they all get a farewell game at a later date.
 
Rektsanwalt said:
putting it mildly tbh
football has been very painful for me this season (at what point in time can we say "last" season? Relegation playoffs? Or are we correct and use that term if the next season has started, so on the 23rd of July? I want the current one to be over and forgotten please).
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It's like you're trying to forget a horrible night, but then you have a shitty tattoo on your arm because of it. Or well.. Sandhausen in your Stadium.
 
Rektsanwalt said:
putting it mildly tbh
football has been very painful for me this season (at what point in time can we say "last" season? Relegation playoffs? Or are we correct and use that term if the next season has started, so on the 23rd of July? I want the current one to be over and forgotten please).
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I hadn't realized for how long Schalke had been terrible...

18/19: first half of the season 18 points, second half 15 points
19/20: first half of the season 30 points, second half 9 points
20/21: first half of the season 7 points, second half 9 points

In the 10 years before that there was only a single half season with less than 20 points. It must be super rare for a club to go from consistently good to consistently horrible this quickly.
 
uamini said:
I hadn't realized for how long Schalke had been terrible...

18/19: first half of the season 18 points, second half 15 points
19/20: first half of the season 30 points, second half 9 points
20/21: first half of the season 7 points, second half 9 points

In the 10 years before that there was only a single half season with less than 20 points. It must be super rare for a club to go from consistently good to consistently horrible this quickly.
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That's a pretty generous way of putting it. It's hard to recall a single season where Schalke played genuine "good" football. They have always been playing like a glorified mid table team, bailed out by moments of individual quality.
And then teams learned to how press and defend better as unit and that was basically the beginning of the end for Schalke, because they never adapted to a new reality that demands clubs to be run with methodical long term planning.
Starting out as the second biggest club in Germany and with the academy output which they had it took some time to run things into the ground like this, but from the beginning of the last decade or so it's easy to spot a steady decline. Every 2-3 years they dropped down a category and every time they bled out some squad quality without downsizing their expenditure sufficiently.
 
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As a noob neutral when it comes to German football, I have to say there’s some very big and historic clubs in their second division now. In my tv package the sports channels show some 2 Bundesliga which I’ve always ignored other than the odd Hamburg derby, but that might change now.
 


Not a pretty sight.



RoyH1 said:
As a noob neutral when it comes to German football, I have to say there’s some very big and historic clubs in their second division now. In my tv package the sports channels show some 2 Bundesliga which I’ve always ignored other than the odd Hamburg derby, but that might change now.
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Not to deter you from watching a bit of these games, but while it really will be a bit like a super league and (if the Covid situation allows it) attendance records will be broken, it's still all relative. In the end it's still going to be second division football and it's perhaps harder to appreciate some of the narratives, e.g. the wonder of seeing Hamburg and Bremen play their derby in the 2nd division, as they used to be the two longest standing Bundesliga members, Hamburg even being among the founders. Or seeing Schalke's and Bremen's seasons against the backdropf of their fight against bankruptcy unfolding in the news coverage.
What makes it special is the nostalgia and seeing normal first division stuff in a second division.
 
Doppelpass really had an all-star lineup today:
Stefan Effenberg, Marcel Reif, Alfred Draxler, Peter Neururer and Olaf Thon :drool: . But the real star of the show was Werder DoF Frank Baumann, opening with the "I'm not one to run away" gambit. Listening to the man I learned that I guess technically he was partly a bit somehow responsible for Werder getting relegated. But really the players disappointed and Kohfeldt maybe made some mistakes and with their finances somehow being a mess Baumann himself really couldn't do anything. But now he's there (and of course much needed by the club) to act quickly and despite being completely broke last summer, they are now in a good position to win back promotion immediately. I think for Werder fans the most interesting part of the whole ordeal was when they read and played viewer messages shitting all over Baumann.
 
2. Bundesliga today. In terms of promotion it's pretty much settled, they're just deciding who gets into the relegation games. I'm so stoked to see Holstein Kiel having a go at it. Hope they make it!
 
Guess that red card for Fürth kind of settles things for today. Such an unnecessary and nasty foul..
 
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What a crazy second half: kudos to Fürth for turning the game twice, despite being a man down. While Kiel must be in a very difficult place right now mentally, after letting yet another half time lead slip.
 
do.ob said:
Guess that red card for Fürth kind of settles things for today. Such an unnecessary and nasty foul..
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You're really good at jinxing clubs, aren't you? :)
I really wanted Kiel to get promoted today but I got a feeling all those post-quarantine games have tired them. Not sure if they have enough strength left to take down Köln.
Nice to see Bochum back in the Bundesliga after all those years though. Looking forward to seeing Bella Kotchap against stronger strikers.
 
uamini said:
You're really good at jinxing clubs, aren't you? :)
I really wanted Kiel to get promoted today but I got a feeling all those post-quarantine games have tired them. Not sure if they have enough strength left to take down Köln.
Nice to see Bochum back in the Bundesliga after all those years though. Looking forward to seeing Bella Kotchap against stronger strikers.
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I don't know.. Kiel had a whole week off before the game. It's not like they fell apart at the end either. In both games they conceded twice in the first 15 minutes of the second half and then actually pulled one back late into the game.

It's nice to see Bochum return indeed, I think they deserve some credit for standing their ground with Schalke and Dortmund to either side and since Bundesliga has been bleeding out so many "proper" clubs it's important that at least something also flows back. For the same reason it's probably also for the best if Cologne manages to stay in, though poor Kiel definitely seem worthy of promotion.
Since Cologne struggles so much with scoring I don't think the playoff is a foregone conclusion for them either way.
 
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I don't know what it is exactly, but that photo op somehow makes me cringe a bit. It looks so obviously arranged that it's painful.
 
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