German Football 20/21

do.ob said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

United were top of the FML every season before the Glazers took control of the club.

The money the Glazers have cost the club's sporting operation is a fact, how the revenue would or would not have developed without them is speculation. But seeing as basically the whole industry, English clubs in particular, has experienced tremendous growth and United started their journey on top of it, it's a fairly ambitious statement to say the Glazer's management has created more than the extra billion or so they have cost the club.
Click to expand...

I still maintain the view that our financial growth was directly tied to the success we had on the field during a time when the Chinese and US American market grew very rapidly, and I feel we would have similar success financially without the Glazers as well, as you pointed out we were pretty much a financial juggernaut even before the Glazers arrived here.

So yeah I totally agree with you, the case that Glazer apologists always make "but the financial growth is down to the Glazers" has very shaky legs to stand on if any and even if they did like a couple % better than we would have without them I'm not sure if that made up the 1.1bn GBP they drained from the club.

But we are derailing the thread and that's the last on the matter I'm going to post here.
 
do.ob said:
Then there is a brewing story about Union Berlin's academy:
First we have this buzzfeed story, reporting how several parents have complained to the Berlin football association about how their kids were treated and dismissed, the article also reports that the ratio of kids with an Arab or Turkish background went down from 40% to 10% within two years when Union's current academy head took over, they claim that their research brought up many families/kids who felt like they were treated as second class citizens, because of their ethnicity. They also claim that agents warn clients of such behavior.
https://www.buzzfeed.de/recherchen/...rwuerfe-union-berlin-bundesliga-90530545.html

Then there is a second component:


Here we have the Twitter account of the Buzzfeed reporter who appears to be in charge of the story. He claims that on last week's monday he sent a catalogue of questions to the club and the academy coach in question, giving them the opportunity to comment until thursday. According to him Union's press officer answered him the following day that they won't fill out the catalogue, but they want to invite him for a chat. Apparently they offered today (several days after the initial deadline) as the earliest opportunity.
Then yesteday (on the eve of the appointment), Union's press officer sent him an email explaining that they have learned that the journalists have acted in bad faith by contacting third parties (apparently DFB and the Berlin FA - which according to the journalist is standard practice) and immediately released a statement condemning the journalists and actually Buzzfeed's own questions with answers on their homepage.


It feels like there is a bad story about Union every other month and even worse: together with Bayern's racism scandal this now marks the second top division academy to face such accusations within a few months, that's already a ninth of Bundesliga and who knows how many more cases are waiting out there to be discovered. I think it's time for DFB to start an honest investigation into the youth system, root out these people themselves right now instead of waiting for journalists to drag them out one at a time.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


https://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/...-berlin-jetzt-spricht-nlz-scouting-chef-lars/

The chief scout of Union's academy has given an interview about the accusations:

He says they didn't have a foreigner quota, but he knows exactly what the boys meant [with their accusations], he says when you sign boys from certain parts of town [naming the ones who are known for their high ratio of foreigners and migrants I guess] you have to know how to treat them, you need a certain sensibility and soft skills.
"Whether the people in charge of Union are there yet, to deal with different clientel, I don't know. But it appears that this maybe isn't the case and the club still has things to learn."

He basically calls their academy head, Andre Hofschneider, a dinosaur "who decides very emotionally", he says it has its reasons why there were also many employees who left the academy since Hofschneider took charge. He's also quoted with "you can't treat teenagers like that".
 
do.ob said:
I think it's an insane argument to say the Glazers haven't harmed United financially: what else than financial harm is it to burden something with hundreds of millions of debt and interest payments for literally zero benefit to the sporting operation and to further extract tens of millions via dividends every year? United still being in a very strong financial position depite what the Glazers did and keep doing to the club doesn't mean there was no harm. As @NoLogo pointed out for all we know the club might have signed Neymar and Mbappe and won a couple of CLs with them.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Complete ignorance to state that they haven't harmed us financially. We are paying their bloody debt for 15 years and counting.
 
Zehner said:
What I meant was that the club has still gone through very impressive growth under the Glazers. From 2005/6 to 2018/19 you have almost tripled your revenue. It grew faster than for example that of Real Madrid although the club has been more successful than United in that time frame.

So from the commercial perspective, the club has done well under the Glazers. I find it hard to argue that one can do much better in that regard since there's hardly anyone with as good of a development, especially since the club didn't do particularly well on the pitch after SAF left in comparison to other European giants. It also shows that their priorities clearly lie on the commercial side. Of course the Glazers took money out of the club still grew financially at a rate similar to or even better than most competitors or am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Growth is not everything. Cash flow is important too. That's part of the commercial aspect.

Also our growth had more to do with Sir Alex having already built an enormous footballing empire. We were more successful than RM until 2013 btw, and were (maybe still are) the world's most famous football club. That's Sir Alex and his success exploding and being maintained by Glazers who had a great hand dealt to them by that era.

And like I said, we can grow 5 times over the next 10 years, but it the glazers take everything that comes in our for themselves and their debts, that's hurting us financially.

A billion in debt payments. A billion.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Growth is not everything. Cash flow is important too. That's part of the commercial aspect.

Also our growth had more to do with Sir Alex having already built an enormous footballing empire. We were more successful than RM until 2013 btw, and were (maybe still are) the world's most famous football club. That's Sir Alex and his success exploding and being maintained by Glazers who had a great hand dealt to them by that era.

And like I said, we can grow 5 times over the next 10 years, but it the glazers take everything that comes in our for themselves and their debts, that's hurting us financially.

A billion in debt payments. A billion.
Click to expand...
That's the thing that's striking. Because in the big picture, even the Glazers here really are just doing the legwork for Wall Street (and get the dividends for their troubles, which are just a fraction compared to what the banks are making). Wall Street wanted in on the troves of the PL, and they are the ones who have profitted incomparably, JPMorgan Chase, interest payments, financial fees, consulting fees, what have you.
Not to recognize this as massive financial fleecing is pretty obtuse.
The club Manchester United, really, was let down by a regulatory framework that would allow such a hostile takeover operation. You were robbed, basically, and the robbery is still ongoing.
 
Last edited:
do.ob said:
https://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/...-berlin-jetzt-spricht-nlz-scouting-chef-lars/

The chief scout of Union's academy has given an interview about the accusations:

He says they didn't have a foreigner quota, but he knows exactly what the boys meant [with their accusations], he says when you sign boys from certain parts of town [naming the ones who are known for their high ratio of foreigners and migrants I guess] you have to know how to treat them, you need a certain sensibility and soft skills.
"Whether the people in charge of Union are there yet, to deal with different clientel, I don't know. But it appears that this maybe isn't the case and the club still has things to learn."

He basically calls their academy head, Andre Hofschneider, a dinosaur "who decides very emotionally", he says it has its reasons why there were also many employees who left the academy since Hofschneider took charge. He's also quoted with "you can't treat teenagers like that".
Click to expand...
Wow. So the chief youth scout basically corroborates the testimonies of the players' families in the original BuzzFeed article? The article (still can't quite wrap my head around BuzzFeed being a medium of investigatory jounalism, but here they are..) was very much a scenario of word against word, club denying there's anything to the allegations, that is no longer the case now.
Not sure how Hofschneider can continue after that.
 
Last edited:
MD 33 - it is heating up in the fight for the European competition and for relegation (and the race for Gerd's record)

E1MbUb5XsAAaF0o


Usually the matches all start at the same time on MD 33 and 34 - but because of the unusual date for the Cup final the matches of BVB and Leipzig are on Sunday.
 
do.ob said:
https://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/...-berlin-jetzt-spricht-nlz-scouting-chef-lars/

The chief scout of Union's academy has given an interview about the accusations:

He says they didn't have a foreigner quota, but he knows exactly what the boys meant [with their accusations], he says when you sign boys from certain parts of town [naming the ones who are known for their high ratio of foreigners and migrants I guess] you have to know how to treat them, you need a certain sensibility and soft skills.
"Whether the people in charge of Union are there yet, to deal with different clientel, I don't know. But it appears that this maybe isn't the case and the club still has things to learn."

He basically calls their academy head, Andre Hofschneider, a dinosaur "who decides very emotionally", he says it has its reasons why there were also many employees who left the academy since Hofschneider took charge. He's also quoted with "you can't treat teenagers like that".
Click to expand...
Hansi Fick said:
Wow. So the chief youth scout basically corroborates the testimonies of the players' families in the original BuzzFeed article? The article (still can't quite wrap my head around BuzzFeed being a medium of investigatory jounalism, but here they are..) was very much a scenario of word against word, club denying there's anything to the allegations, that is no longer the case now.
Not sure how Hofschneider can continue after that.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't see a scenario where Hofschneider won't get sacked. Going by that interview Union in general seems like a toxic environment with incompetent club structures. However it seems it at least partially contradicts the overt racism angle, although it still paints a really bad picture of how they treat their youth players.
 
Hansi Fick said:
That's the thing that's striking. Because in the big picture, even the Glazers here really are just doing the legwork for Wall Street (and get the dividends for their troubles, which are just a fraction compared to what the banks are making). Wall Street wanted in on the troves of the PL, and they are the ones who have profitted incomparably, JPMorgan Chase, interest payments, financial fees, consulting fees, what have you.
Not to recognize this as massive financial fleecing is pretty obtuse.
The club Manchester United, really, was let down by a regulatory framework that would allow such a hostile takeover operation. You were robbed, basically, and the robbery is still ongoing.
Click to expand...
Absolutely mate. That this was allowed back in 2005 is travesty. I wonder if having social media at the time would have actually done some good. I remember the movement we did have and buying shares via must but all our efforts seemed to small compared to the inevitable. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the likes of the FA should have protected one of its institutions better. Buying a club on debt and handing it payments to make for decades is incredible unfair and selfish.
 
Why was it okay for Dortmund and Leipzig to play tomorrow but Hertha`s match was forced to play today? Very weird given their schedule.
 
Kasper said:
Why was it okay for Dortmund and Leipzig to play tomorrow but Hertha`s match was forced to play today? Very weird given their schedule.
Click to expand...

Hertha played Wednesday -> Saturday. The other two are playing Thursday -> Sunday. TV obligations and concerns over the integrity of the relegation battle may also be factors.
 
do.ob said:
It will become truly hilarious if Frankfurt messes up against them on the weekend, the Schalke team performing in the one game their supporters would want them to lose as a final feck you.
Click to expand...


"Der Pott steht zusammen" as they say. I know Schalke will bottle this
 
If we are odds on to sign Sancho then its better for us if Dortmund qualify and keep Haaland for us next season surely?
 
I'm sorry but how is nobody talking about the guy who got into a stadium with a garbage bin to make noise???
 
Bremen need to be relegated for their own good, pathetic from them yet again.
 
cyberman said:
If we are odds on to sign Sancho then its better for us if Dortmund qualify and keep Haaland for us next season surely?
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I think Haaland would be staying regardless. Unless there was a clause in his contract, no matter how much of a stink got created, it wouldn't make teams bid money they clearly won't this summer to sign him.
 
giorno said:
I'm sorry but how is nobody talking about the guy who got into a stadium with a garbage bin to make noise???
Click to expand...

It's supposedly a member of the staff. It's unsporting, but I don't think anyone is going to do about it until after the match.
 
cyberman said:
If we are odds on to sign Sancho then its better for us if Dortmund qualify and keep Haaland for us next season surely?
Click to expand...

Nah, if we qualify for the CL our officials will play the same game as last Summer and demand the sum that has been agreed with Sanchos camp in their gentlemens agreement (100 Mil. € this year). Without CL football and the loss in revenue I would see us lowering the asking price due to economical reasons.
 
Sphaero said:
Nah, if we qualify for the CL our officials will play the same game as last Summer and demand the sum that has been agreed with Sanchos camp in their gentlemens agreement (100 Mil. € this year). Without CL football and the loss in revenue I would see us lowering the asking price due to economical reasons.
Click to expand...
Cant see us bidding much less than 85m pound either way to be honest. At that price it looks as if we just want to get it done.
 
Bremen now have to beat Leverkusen next week to have any chance of staying up as Koln will surely beat Schalke at home and they're one point behind. Bielefield probably go to the relegation play off.
 
No way Dortmund bottles this. They just need one win in the last two and both of their opponents have nothing to play for.
 
Looks like quite a few things have been settled today:

* Wolfsburg qualifies for the CL, Dortmund could do the same with a win in one of their remaining games
* Leverkusen clinches the EL spot.
* Union, Gladbach, Stuttgart and Freiburg all could get the Euro Conference spot. Union is in the lead but has the toughest last game, against Leipzig.
* Hertha, Augsburg and Mainz avoid relegation. Bielefeld, Werder and Köln could all go down. Köln plays at home against Schalke, but even a win might not be enough.
 
OleBoiii said:
No way Dortmund bottles this. They just need one win in the last two and both of their opponents have nothing to play for.
Click to expand...
Especially as Mainz now are through and have nothing to worry about any more.

For me that is the story of the season, coming back from so far behind has never been done before in the Bundesliga, doing it with two games in hand is unreal.
 
stefan92 said:
Especially as Mainz now are through and have nothing to worry about any more.

For me that is the story of the season, coming back from so far behind has never been done before in the Bundesliga, doing it with two games in hand is unreal.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a big achievement. The club never should have been in such a bad position in the first place and the other half of the story is Frankfurt's spectacular collapse. Gladbach just had to weaken their rival...
 
do.ob said:
I don't think it's a big achievement. The club never should have been in such a bad position in the first place and the other half of the story is Frankfurt's spectacular collapse. Gladbach just had to weaken their rival...
Click to expand...
7 points in 17 games
29 points in 15 games

Of course no team should start that bad in the season, but such an improvement under these circumstances with that little budget available to fix things is absolutely astonishing I think.
 
stefan92 said:
7 points in 17 games
29 points in 15 games

Of course no team should start that bad in the season, but such an improvement under these circumstances with that little budget available to fix things is absolutely astonishing I think.
Click to expand...

I completely misread your post and assumed you somehow meant Dortmund. Mainz's comeback has of course been something very special.
 
do.ob said:
I completely misread your post and assumed you somehow meant Dortmund. Mainz's comeback has of course been something very special.
Click to expand...
I see. Yes, Dortmund (assuming they qualify for CL) has had an ok-ish season with too much struggle, but nothing outstanding I think, I believe we agree there :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.