Favre's time at Dortmund must be over after the post-match-interviews with Hummels and Reus.
German Football 20/21
- Thread starter do.ob
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Rangnick's time at Schalke was so short and Dortmund have signed players with a Schalke history too.
Dortmund would be looking for a head coach, not for a manager in the kind of expansive role that Rangnick would want to have. For that reason alone, Rangnick doesn't fit at all.
Also, Rangnick has never really coached a team at the level of BVB, if we're quite honest. The only comparable would be his first stint as Schalke coach, which is, what?, over a decade ago now? The projects with which he has occupied himself since were vastly different from what's needed at BVB.
Also, Rangnick has never really coached a team at the level of BVB, if we're quite honest. The only comparable would be his first stint as Schalke coach, which is, what?, over a decade ago now? The projects with which he has occupied himself since were vastly different from what's needed at BVB.
Yes, that was pretty bold.
What did they say?
Favre sacked
Just got notified by kicker too. Well. Will be interested to see what or who is next for them.
Dortmund are a well run club who act quickly.
Top of champions league group, only a few points off top, best player out injured, Sancho distracted by Utd summer talk, but that’s how ruthless you need to be to maintain standards
Confirmed by Ruhr Nachricten too.
"Give it Giggsy end of........" oh.
Imagine if they give it to David Wagner.
Last mid season change a few years ago they gave it to the ex Koln guy who'd been sacked from there a few weeks before.
Imagine if they give it to David Wagner.
Last mid season change a few years ago they gave it to the ex Koln guy who'd been sacked from there a few weeks before.The funny part is, they never had a coach with a higher ppg haul. 2.09 points per game, equal with... not Klopp, but Tuchel.
So what? The 12/13 season aside the club never had such a good squad, especially if you factor in depth. Klopp took over the club in 13th place, he had to work with Großkreutz as a starter during most of his tenure, while Favre was able to use Brandt and Hazard as luxury players.
As his luck would have it Max Eberl was the guest at ASS yesterday evening and when asked about other club's interest in Rose he - again - didn't really make a clear statement. The wanker of a moderator actually pressed him about Dortmund specifically, which drew out more empty phrases. I don't know whether he will land in Dortmund, but I suspect that Rose has a release clause in his contract for the upcoming summer. Otherwise all these deliberately and misdirecting statements from Eberl don't make a lot of sense to me.
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Feel really bad for Favre, seems a genuine nice guy on and off the pitch but ultimately his impact waned off after a couple of good seasons. That first season is really frustrating, losing by 1 point after having a large lead towards the end of the season.
Not a bad or average manager by any means. Hope he finds a new big club to step into.
Not a bad or average manager by any means. Hope he finds a new big club to step into.
Rumous have it that Rose's taking over in the summer.
They can win something next season with Rose if it’s true.
Well, this afternoon's events answered the first question that would need to be answered before talking about available successors - whether BVB would allow Favre to see the contract out or whether he was actually in danger of being sacked immediately.
A 1-5 disaster against a promoted team does qualify as a sacking offense at face value, but I didn't know enough about the behind the scenes atmosphere to be sure he would be sacked. So your estimation that they decided he has lost the team was correct. And that of course is the reason he's sacked, not a single result. On top of the fact that the board never showed great enthusiasm towards his work, they backed him very reservedly, one always had the feeling they'd have preferred to have Nagelsmann.
No doubt Nagelsmann or Rose would be preferred candidates, but the reason I said I was at a loss for names at the moment was that they are not availabe, the timing is not there. Certainly not during the season, and hardly next summer. Rose maybe more possible than Nagelsmann, as Gladbach are BVB's favourite club to prey on these days. But I don't really see them as easily available even then, just as you say.
And in the German-speaking coach circuit, who else is there? Noone that to me seems a really convincing candidate. I do wonder whether Streich wouldn't deserve a shot at a bigger club, by now. And there's surely lots of interesting, promising coaching prospects, but none of them that wouldn't seem like a massive risk to hire in such a big job.
Marsch, that's a name I forgot about, you're right. Salzburg completely murdered us twice in the CL this season, they played exciting stuff, but their wastefulness was something else in both games. And from what I read about the Atletico game that seems to be a consistent problem of his team. No idea about how it is in the Austrian league. But an interesting coach. More transition football though?
Rangnick, not a fit for the reasons already said in the thread.
Instead of the U23 coach you mention, they've given the interim role to the assistant Tercic. I can't imagine that Tercic would be in contention to get the job permanently, but then this means the treshold for appointing the U23 coach is higher, as he can't be slipped in, tried out, as interim anymore.
I also wonder whether it isn't too early in the season still to leave the job as interim until summer?
We can't forget that the BVB job is besides Bayern (and maybe to an extent RB now) the only high pressure managerial job in Bundesliga. It demands 2nd place as a minimum, competing for the league title as a serious target, reaching CL knockouts etc. The squad has not just talents, but internationally hyped big name talents and a couple of seasoned top players too. It requires a certain authority in man-management (Not in the sense of authoritarianism, but in the sense that these players are surely harder to impress than the ones at, say, Gladbach or Salzburg).
That's what I was wondering. There surely would be problems with hiring him, the salary, the staff, the language. Availability, depending on whether he has offers like PSG or even Real, or some underperforming big club in the Premier League.
But he is free right now, and I seem to remember that the BVB board was in contact with him before? They have made difficult international signings before. I have the feeling they could pull it off if they go in hard, problems like salary and language can be sorted, and in terms of style, competence and authority I think he would be an excellent fit to this team, honestly. We forget how good his Spurs team was, by the way also in the direct meetings with the Dortmund team. I think he is ambitious, and his record at Spurs is excellent exactly in terms of bringing a winning mentality to a financially disadvantaged team, as you demand.
I wonder if that wouldn't be exactly the kind of ambitious statement appointment that BVB should be looking to make?
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Yes, i agree that Favre is not a bad or average manager BUT he is also NOT a big club manager either. Teams like Hertha or Nice are his level and thats about it.
Absolut shocking incident in the Schalke Augsburg game. Mark Uth and a player from Augsburg clashed with heads. Mark Uth got knocked out in the air and fell very awkward on his head.
One can only hope and pray nothing really bad happened to Uth.
Shocking pictures. I'm surprised they just continue the match.
One can only hope and pray nothing really bad happened to Uth.
Shocking pictures. I'm surprised they just continue the match.
I agree with Rose being the most likely of those two. BMG to BVB is more of a step up than RBL to BVB is these days too.
but what about Erik ten Hag? BVB has sprung for Dutch managers in the past, and it was rumoured that BVB wanted him last season.
I don't feel like it's going to be Poch. For one BVB hardly ever appoints anyone outside of German speaking nationalities, with the exception of Dutch managers, but Dutch is fairly similar to German. The last time they appointed someone outside of German-speaking nationalities was Nevio Scala in 1997. Also, there was Favre who grew up in the French-speaking part of Switzerland, but he had been managing in Germany for a long stint prior to BVB&Nice.
Secondly, them appointing Terzic until the summer, even if that's them hoping for a Hansi Flick-like success, kind of suggests they're not grabbing someone who is currently available. Even though that might change quite quickly if Terzic doesn't deliver.
I didn't see it, but what happened to Mark Uth just then? Hope he's going to be ok.
Ten Hag, good call, I also forgot about him. If Bayern needed a coach, I might prefer him to Rose as it currently stands.
About the last point, I'd disagree. I think giving the job to the current assistant as interim is such a default move that it means they can appoint someone new at any given time without stepping on anyone's toes. And honestly it sounds too underwhelming that they should keep him any longer than necessary. It's all still to play for this season.
And appointing a foreign manager, yes, I'm aware (and Favre was part of the Bundesliga circuit already, even ten Hag of course has experience coaching in German football). But international top teams hire international top managers, if need be. I'm sure the BVB board is ambitious enough to look all over Europe, and maybe they should make the jump to actually hiring someone from outside for once.
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Neck injury? Everyone on the pitch was quite shaken apparently
His best work was for Gladbach, which is at least one step above, but clearly below actual top teams.
Happened on a heading duel with Uduokhai.
He already seemed to be knocked out in the air before he went to the floor.
So Dortmund and Gladbach aren’t big rivals then?
Fair point, I guess it can be seen both ways, but they could've just as easily said he takes over on an interim basis without putting a timeline on it.
Not sure it would be unambitious to look within German-speaking managers, as there a lot of solid options out there. I know they're very strict about their players learning German, so I'm sure they'd want their manager to speak German as well. Ideally from the get-go, although there would be plenty of time for Poch to learn before the next season starts if that's the way they'd want to go, but I think they'll spring for a German-speaking manager once they hire someone.
Also, would like to mention Hasenhüttl as a potential candidate. I believe he's a really good manager. He did brilliantly at both Ingolstadt & Leipzig, and even before this season Southampton have been on an upward trajectory since he took over. Read an article a while back that made it seem like he really enjoys life at Southampton though.
That might be the case now but it wasn't back then. He took over a Hertha team that had finished in the top 6 in 8 of the previous 11 seasons before his arrival. Nice had finished in 4th place when he joined them.
Gladbach on the other hand was in last place with 7 points to catch up and only 12 matches left to play when they hired him. Those were his most challenging starting conditions by far.
Either way his coaching tenures seem to always play out the same. He quickly manages to get results, people are raving about the way his teams play....and yet at some point they go on a disturbing downward spiral and he's absolutely clueless on how to stop the fall. Dortmund pulling the plug now might be a wise decision considering he ended both his Hertha and Gladbach runs with astonishing 6 losses in a row. In both cases he repeatedly asked the club to fire him instead of trying to find a solution.
I like him but any club trying to hire him should be aware of his obvious flaws.
Not really. Biggest reason for rivalry as far as I'm aware is that they both share Borussia in their name. But that's really just a gimmick situation where on the day of both teams playing, both sets of fans proclaim to be the only true Borussia. Otherwise despite both clubs not being all that far apart geographically I don't think there's much of a rivalry.
Gladbach's rivals would be Leverkusen, Köln, Düsseldorf I think, whereas Dortmund's biggest rivals are Schalke and Bayern.
No. And Dortmund are the much bigger club as of now.
Fun fact: While Borussia is just the Latin name of Prussia, Dortmund was actually named after a brewery with the same name that happened to be across the pub where the founders used to meet.
I’ve read up a lot of Union Berlin’s rags to riches, the Berlin derby etc, and they are really good stories. Good to see them challenging with sides like BvB and Bayern in their forest-surrounded stadium. A Burnley, if you like. Similar style of football too. Do German fans think they’ll do something this season? Currently 6th of course.
Dortmund not trusting the process.
incredible scenes between Augsburg and Schalke.
Kramaric 
After a horrible FK he gives an assist to Bailey whereas the back pass wasn't necessary. Coward back pass I should say
After a horrible FK he gives an assist to Bailey whereas the back pass wasn't necessary. Coward back pass I should sayWell they had a rather soft schedule so far...then again playing Bayern didn't really stop their momentum either.
As for seriously challenging Munich or Dortmund, they're not even close. Their best-case scenario would be them somehow taking advantage of this difficult season and surprising everyone by grabbing a Euro League spot. It's much more likely that they'll drop back into a mid-table spot before long though. That would still be a very good result for a team in its second Bundesliga year.
In the long run they could turn into a club similar to Freiburg, a solid Bundesliga team that will never have enough money to truly compete with the top clubs.
I meant get the odd result against Bayern, BvB, Leipzig etc, but yeah, it’d be nice to see them play in Europe next season, and for a club their size, becoming a Freiburg is no shame whatsoever. Feels like their style wouldn’t suit Europe though! Burnley couldn’t even get through the qualifiers after all. Still though, the fact that they can even beat Hertha once in a while is unbelievable.
Favre is a nice guy, I feel sorry for him to go out this way and I wish him all the best. But if his time at Dortmund has shown anything it's that he doesn't belong at a bigger club. A top four challenger is his level and I don't mean this in a nasty way. But if you're supposed to challenge for titles saying stuff like "a draw is always okay for me" is a sackable offense, it's pure poison to ambition.
To be honest I didn't expect Dortmund to act so swiftly, as they are usually extremely keen on stability. I half expected them to let him get to Christmas. But in hindsight Hummels' and Reus' post match interviews seem even more damning now.
I wouldn't say that he didn't receive backing. Dortmund made significant investments by their standards, especially last summer in keeping their squad together while adding Bellingham. They also stood behind him while the media was sharpening their daggers after his first season collapse and they sat out his second season crisis, when it would have been an easy out to sack him before their annual meetings. He did well to stabilize the club initially, but as time went on it became more and more clear that he didn't fit Dortmund's vision of their future. So there just wasn't much of a reason left to sit this one out with him.
Streich is like an old hermit, he's found his place in the world in Freiburg and he has zero ambition to move elsewhere. Freiburg is a different world entirely to Dortmund as well, it would've been a (too) huge step for him. I'm only aware of Marsch's CL exploits and they are surely impressive and what Dortmund are looking for, but a couple of days ago I also saw an interview he gave after a domestic match, where he basically conceded that he had no idea why Salzburg couldn't beat their domestic fodder and that lets all the alarm bells ring, given Dortmund's own track record against relegation candidates and promoted teams.
Who knows why they picked Terzic instead. Maybe it's because he's quite experienced, maybe either they (or he himself) don't want to see Maaßen get burned in such a tough situation. The u23 is also doing really well this season and getting them promoted seems to be a priority, so as far as opportunity cost goes, Terzic's is far lesser (not that they would sacrifice their first team for the second).
I think these days it's all about ideas, giving your team a feeling of inspiration. On one hand we saw Nagelsmann salvage Hoffenheim from a desperate relegation battle and turn them into a top 4 club, despite being younger than a couple of his players. Tuchel had Dortmund on track for a record breaking season, despite only coaching Mainz before and having to take over from Klopp. We also saw Ancelotti get rejected by Bayern's squad in record time. These days you need to convince players that you can help them reach a higher level, that you have the answers to their struggles. Reputation is just bonus.
If Pochettino was German speaking sure, but the language barrier by itself could make this a disaster. And that's too big a risk in Covid times. And that's all assuming he would even want the job. The fact that they announced Terzic until season's end basically puts any idea of Pochettino or Rangnick to rest immediately anyway.
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Dortmund has been through fair few managers since Klopp.
Never watched any of his conferences or interviews was he very Moyesesque in his pragmatism?
“Well I hope we go out and make it difficult for them, and that’s all you can ask” type attitude?