Gary Neville - Pundit

We should be challenging for the league. I expect we will. But my overwhelming belief is that the team isn’t good enough to get over the line because our central midfield options wouldn’t look out of place in a midtable team.

We’ve been playing catch up in the transfer market for years and the club still (seemingly) refuse to try and get ahead for once.

If the team is miles off the pace then scrutiny will be warranted but we’re talking about two different things here: challenging and winning.

Give me a break with this central midfield non-sense. Ole has had 6 transfer windows to sort it out. It simply doesn’t rank high enough on his priority list.

Plus, he’s pissed away £100m on talent which he doesn’t utilise (VDB, Diallo and James). The excuses seem to be never ending for Ole.
 
Give me a break with this central midfield non-sense. Ole has had 6 transfer windows to sort it out. It simply doesn’t rank high enough on his priority list.

Plus, he’s pissed away £100m on talent which he doesn’t utilise (VDB, Diallo and James). The excuses seem to be never ending for Ole.

Challenging the league, is that your minimum expectation right?
 
I’m the first to call out Neville when he’s talking shite, but let’s actually scrutinise what he has actually said (I’m going to paraphrase a touch):
  • Ole deserves another twelve to eighteen months to get it together (Carragher himself says that Ole has done a ‘good’ job).
  • The Europa final was a ‘bad’ loss that will hang over Ole unless he wins something this season.
  • United have tried high profile managers post-Ferguson and these projects have failed.
  • Cavani and Martial will leave the club in the next year.
  • United need to buy a centre forward in the next year and should be looking to buy the best one in the country.
I’m at a loss as to what he has said which is so controversial. Feel free to scan the bullet points above and take issue with them but I agree with every single one.

Carragher is the one who lacks any real argument throughout this. Primarily because it’s clear as day that we don’t have the midfielders to challenge for the title. This isn’t some sort of excuse that is used to dress up the manager; it’s just an undeniable reality that was staring us in the face at the weekend. He can get uppity about £50 million players all over the park as much as wants, but sometimes these players aren’t all that. Fred and Matic cost a combined £87 million and nobody is under any illusions as to how successful these were on Sunday.

He asks ‘is it the players, the squad, or the manager?’ Well, in truth it might be all three in the end. But Ole merits the time to see this out and it’s imperative we continue to buy the right players in the right positions. When we have good players all over the park then it’s fair game for all.
If Pogba was manager, Neville would only give him eleven to seventeen months. It's a double standard.
 
The thing that irritates me the most is he keeps banging on about how we’ve tried going down the ‘world class’ manager route and it hasn’t worked. No Gary we hired 2 managers who were world class at one stage in their career but not when we hired them. It’s Man Utd we should be going after the absolute best managers possible all the time, just because one doesn’t work you don’t just dismiss the rest. You wouldn’t operate that way if it was players you’re looking to sign, oh we’ve tried the world class talent route so now we’ll go down the bang average one. :wenger:
This is the truth. Van Gaal wasnt world class and the Jose we got was the broken Jose, not once but he had been broken three times before joining us.
 
Give me a break with this central midfield non-sense. Ole has had 6 transfer windows to sort it out. It simply doesn’t rank high enough on his priority list.

Plus, he’s pissed away £100m on talent which he doesn’t utilise (VDB, Diallo and James). The excuses seem to be never ending for Ole.

So our central midfield options aren’t shite? We both know that they are; we saw as much at the weekend. There are a few issues with your response, really.

Firstly, the media consensus would appear to indicate that Ole does want a midfielder and the club are yet to bring one in. That’s on them, not him.

Secondly, there were bigger priorities to fix at centre half, full back, attacking midfield and out wide when he first arrived at the club. This is because our back line was made out of Valencia-Smalling-Jones-Young and our attacking midfield options were Lingard and Pereira. So yes, central midfield was less of a priority at the beginning of his tenure. Now we have addressed these areas and time has passed, central midfield has turned into more of an issue.

Thirdly, your grouping of James, Amad and Van de Beek is thoroughly disingenuous. James was a punt that hasn’t really worked - these things happen and we’ll make a return on what we paid. Amad has been brought in as a player for the long term - don’t pretend you seriously believed he was ready to cement a first team spot in a team you clearly believe should be winning trophies. The Van de Beek example could well be fair enough, but we’re going to have to wait and see how this season pans out for him.

What excuses are people really making? And excuses for what, exactly?

I’ve said all along that our current squad is good enough to put up a decent challenge to our rivals, as well as win a cup competition. But it isn’t good enough to win the title against our rivals. This is because our midfield pairing is worse than the pairing we faced at Southampton at the weekend. It’s worse than the West Ham pairing that beat Leicester the other night.

Ole wants a midfielder in the next five days. I think that’s clear. Once again, I don’t think we have the stomach to see a window through to the end.
 
I doubt having an obsession for the greatest striker in the league in the last 5 years is weird.

If we had Kane we would be unreal.

I think every manager would take Kane over fixing the midfield if I’m honest, he would completely transform us.
 
Fred and Mctominay are fine it’s Matic that is the problem. We do need a midfielder but not over Harry Kane. I’d rather buy Kane and stick Lindelof in Midfield.

Also when Fred and Mctominay are match fit our fortunes will turn around significantly.
 
I doubt having an obsession for the greatest striker in the league in the last 5 years is weird.

If we had Kane we would be unreal.

I think every manager would take Kane over fixing the midfield if I’m honest, he would completely transform us.

Like Fergie would.
 
I’m the first to call out Neville when he’s talking shite, but let’s actually scrutinise what he has actually said (I’m going to paraphrase a touch):
  • Ole deserves another twelve to eighteen months to get it together (Carragher himself says that Ole has done a ‘good’ job).
  • The Europa final was a ‘bad’ loss that will hang over Ole unless he wins something this season.
  • United have tried high profile managers post-Ferguson and these projects have failed.
  • Cavani and Martial will leave the club in the next year.
  • United need to buy a centre forward in the next year and should be looking to buy the best one in the country.
I’m at a loss as to what he has said which is so controversial. Feel free to scan the bullet points above and take issue with them but I agree with every single one.

Carragher is the one who lacks any real argument throughout this. Primarily because it’s clear as day that we don’t have the midfielders to challenge for the title. This isn’t some sort of excuse that is used to dress up the manager; it’s just an undeniable reality that was staring us in the face at the weekend. He can get uppity about £50 million players all over the park as much as wants, but sometimes these players aren’t all that. Fred and Matic cost a combined £87 million and nobody is under any illusions as to how successful these were on Sunday.

He asks ‘is it the players, the squad, or the manager?’ Well, in truth it might be all three in the end. But Ole merits the time to see this out and it’s imperative we continue to buy the right players in the right positions. When we have good players all over the park then it’s fair game for all.
Why? We've already tried signing high profile CFs in Lukaku and Falcao and they didn't work out so it's best we go for average number 9s now. Totally makes sense.
 
Why? We've already tried signing high profile CFs in Lukaku and Falcao and they didn't work out so it's best we go for average number 9s now. Totally makes sense.

I don’t necessarily believe that high profile managers will all fail. But I agree with Neville that the ones we employed did fail. I’m also saying that his isn’t a controversial viewpoint, in addition to the other bullet points listed which are also non-controversial.

Neville talks a lot of shite, at times, but Monday wasn’t really an example of this.
 
I don’t necessarily believe that high profile managers will all fail. But I agree with Neville that the ones we employed did fail. I’m also saying that his isn’t a controversial viewpoint, in addition to the other bullet points listed which are also non-controversial.

Neville talks a lot of shite, at times, but Monday wasn’t really an example of this.
I agree with your point but Neville described them as world class managers which I think is quite different. You can argue the case with Mourinho, but I don't think anyone can claim LVG was a world class manager when we appointed him. Even with Mourinho, despite his success there were red flags prior to him joining that things could go tits up. I don't think our assessment on high profile or world class managers should be based on what happened with Mourinho. It just comes across as an extremely simplistic argument by Neville not taking into account any context.
 
I don’t necessarily believe that high profile managers will all fail. But I agree with Neville that the ones we employed did fail. I’m also saying that his isn’t a controversial viewpoint, in addition to the other bullet points listed which are also non-controversial.

Neville talks a lot of shite, at times, but Monday wasn’t really an example of this.
It's a very silly viewpoint because the focus isn't on Mourinho or LVGs transfers, football ideology, tactics etc but the fact that they once were great managers.

A once great manager who is now on the downward spiral, gets his teams playing boring football and is confrontational to the extreme fails at your club. Lesson learnt - STAY AWARE FROM GREAT MANAGERS.
 
I don’t necessarily believe that high profile managers will all fail. But I agree with Neville that the ones we employed did fail. I’m also saying that his isn’t a controversial viewpoint, in addition to the other bullet points listed which are also non-controversial.

Neville talks a lot of shite, at times, but Monday wasn’t really an example of this.
He didn't say high profile. He said world class. Neither Mourinho or LvG were world class when they came to us. They were both well past their best and that's been proven by their records since us too.

Also his solution is always just "go spend a feck tonne of money on this player" to take us to the next level. That's not a feasible solution when the stats already showed we've spent £310m net since Ole took over and we don't have the money to spend £150m.

He's just a typical Ole defender. We always need to spend more so that Ole can compete. We could get Kane this summer, fail, and next summer he'd just harp on saying he needs another year and a £100m midfielder.
 
He didn't say high profile. He said world class. Neither Mourinho or LvG were world class when they came to us. They were both well past their best and that's been proven by their records since us too.

Also his solution is always just "go spend a feck tonne of money on this player" to take us to the next level. That's not a feasible solution when the stats already showed we've spent £310m net since Ole took over and we don't have the money to spend £150m.

He's just a typical Ole defender. We always need to spend more so that Ole can compete. We could get Kane this summer, fail, and next summer he'd just harp on saying he needs another year and a £100m midfielder.
Well we do if City are spending the same? It’s not as if City are standing still, the further behind we fall then the more it will take to get back to level footing.
 
Also his solution is always just "go spend a feck tonne of money on this player" to take us to the next level. That's not a feasible solution when the stats already showed we've spent £310m net since Ole took over and we don't have the money to spend £150m.
Still better than the entitled fan solution, which is always sack the manager and roll the dice again.
 
He didn't say high profile. He said world class. Neither Mourinho or LvG were world class when they came to us. They were both well past their best and that's been proven by their records since us too.

Also his solution is always just "go spend a feck tonne of money on this player" to take us to the next level. That's not a feasible solution when the stats already showed we've spent £310m net since Ole took over and we don't have the money to spend £150m.

He's just a typical Ole defender. We always need to spend more so that Ole can compete. We could get Kane this summer, fail, and next summer he'd just harp on saying he needs another year and a £100m midfielder.

High profile. World class. My point still stands; he said nothing particularly controversial.

I’m not getting into the childishness of what an ‘Ole defender’ is, but the reality is that we do need a long term striker. We do need a midfielder. Sack Ole today and sign Pep tomorrow and our manager would still be working this weekend with Fred and Matic in midfield. They would still need a proper forward next season when Cavani leaves. As far as I’m concerned that can’t be argued.
 
Well we do if City are spending the same? It’s not as if City are standing still, the further behind we fall then the more it will take to get back to level footing.
City have lost their two most influential players of the last decade in the last few years and Ferdnandinho is 35, it's not like they've just been buying players for the sake of it like they used to. So I don't really buy the idea that they are just strengthening an already perfect side. We have arguably had a better window than them already. Liverpool haven't really bought anyone. Chelsea, fair enough.

My point is there has to come a point where the solution isn't always just "buy the best player in the league". When that's your excuse then you aren't doing a good enough job, especially when we already bought two of the best players in the world in their positions!
 
His obsession with Kane is disturbing. The guy is 28 years old and a poor man's Shearer. He would be great at 70m but Levy wants 150m. I understand that Gaz loves to see a Brexit FC on the pitch but paying that money for Kane is stupid
 
High profile. World class. My point still stands; he said nothing particularly controversial.

I’m not getting into the childishness of what an ‘Ole defender’ is, but the reality is that we do need a long term striker. We do need a midfielder. Sack Ole today and sign Pep tomorrow and our manager would still be working this weekend with Fred and Matic in midfield. They would still need a proper forward next season when Cavani leaves. As far as I’m concerned that can’t be argued.
There is a clear distinction between the two though and you obviously intentionally said high profile because calling either world class is laughable.

There are definitely weaknesses in the squad still but it's also the best squad we've had in years, easily the best since Ole took over and arguably the 2nd best in the league and one of the best in Europe. That may not be enough to topple City and maybe we do need that striker or midfielder to do that BUT we should at least challenge, which is all I've asked for. I don't want Ole sacked, but I do want him to utilise the excellent squad we've built in the last three years instead of constantly needing that extra player or two before we do anything of note.

Neville keeps peddling unrealistic solutions. We don't have £150m to spend on Kane, even City wouldn't spend that much. It was a silly thing to say. He's supposed to be an expert pundit so he shouldn't be inventing scenarios that aren't feasible. Carragher was far more sensible.
 
High profile. World class. My point still stands; he said nothing particularly controversial.

I’m not getting into the childishness of what an ‘Ole defender’ is, but the reality is that we do need a long term striker. We do need a midfielder. Sack Ole today and sign Pep tomorrow and our manager would still be working this weekend with Fred and Matic in midfield. They would still need a proper forward next season when Cavani leaves. As far as I’m concerned that can’t be argued.

Would he? We've also got the likes of VDB and Pogba who can slot in as CM. Meanwhile Bruno can play in a deeper role if needed, with Sancho/Lingard/Mata playing as an AMC and we've got Mejbri coming up the ranks. United have choices.
 
His obsession with Kane is disturbing. The guy is 28 years old and a poor man's Shearer. He would be great at 70m but Levy wants 150m. I understand that Gaz loves to see a Brexit FC on the pitch but paying that money for Kane is stupid
Both he and Scholes have been advocating him for years. And probably any professional pundit as well. Anyone can see what Kane could bring us.
 
Both he and Scholes have been advocating him for years. And probably any professional pundit as well. Anyone can see what Kane could bring us.

Kane is a great striker. He's not a Batistuta or a Shearer but very few are. However he's 28, he had his share of injuries and Spurs would want its ton of flesh for him. Its simply not worth it. Gaz should know that.
 
Thing is, the right type of striker can take a massive amount of pressure off the midfield. Somebody who can actually hold the ball high and constantly run the channels. Right now our opponent midfield can happily relax and concentrate on overwhelming our own midfield because there is little threat behind them. Nobody will hold the ball there and our runners will be coming from our midfield anyway.

I don't think Kane is that guy though.

Bringing this one up again. IF Ronaldo signs, he will be that guy. Opposing defenders and midfielders won't dare take their eyes off him and it will transform what our midfield is capable of.
 
Neville wanted Varane, Sancho and Kane (ie. a top class #9).

We'll get Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo (ie. a top class #9).

It's going to be a fun season.
 
Neville wanted Varane, Sancho and Kane (ie. a top class #9).

We'll get Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo (ie. a top class #9).

It's going to be a fun season.
Can someone tell him to say he wants a midfielder too? Preferably before the window closes thanks.
 
Neville wanted Varane, Sancho and Kane (ie. a top class #9).

We'll get Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo (ie. a top class #9).

It's going to be a fun season.
Neville will come out with that then bemoan why we haven't signed a midfielder after we drew against Southampton.
 
Neville will come out with that then bemoan why we haven't signed a midfielder after we drew against Southampton.
That's all well and good but with Ronaldo (or Cavani for that matter) on the pitch against Southampton, we win that game. Two or three times we flashed the ball across the six yard box to nobody, those two players are there to tap it in nearly every time.

I agree about the midfield, particularly when Matic plays but you can't not sign Ronaldo if he is available.
 
Neville will come out with that then bemoan why we haven't signed a midfielder after we drew against Southampton.
I doubt it. He seems to be the only person that doesn’t see we need a CDM. He kept saying Kane and when Sky uploaded it onto Instagram all the top comments where we don’t need Kane we need a DM. Everyone can see it but I don’t think Gary can
 
He wanted Kane and got Ronaldo. Thats like 1.25x better. Could be more if Ronaldo feels extra motivated. Which I think he will.
 
I doubt it. He seems to be the only person that doesn’t see we need a CDM. He kept saying Kane and when Sky uploaded it onto Instagram all the top comments where we don’t need Kane we need a DM. Everyone can see it but I don’t think Gary can
:lol:

You're just projecting every negative thing about United onto Neville because he's an easy boogeyman.
 
I've never quite got the Nevllie hate on here but this just seems odd.


Neville - United can't get a Kane, Haaland or Lukaku type striker.

Pretty sure Ronaldo out scored Kane & Lukaku last season and in the euro's.
 
I've never quite got the Nevllie hate on here but this just seems odd.


Neville - United can't get a Kane, Haaland or Lukaku type striker.

Pretty sure Ronaldo out scored Kane & Lukaku last season and in the euro's.
I feel like Neville wants to reserve expectations as to not put too much pressure on Ole, I think all the former United players now turned pundits do that. I'm not Ole out but surely with these signings there should be more expectation from our former players turned pundits. I mean a team that finished second last season that have added Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane should definitely be in the title race and in all honesty be expected to win. I think it's a bit hypocritical tbh as if Klopp, Mourinho, Pep and Tuchel managed this squad and failed to win the league it would definitely be deemed a failure.

Again, I get he doesn't wanna put pressure on Ole but in all honesty if we don't win anything this season serious questions need to be asked about his ability as a manager.
(I'm not Ole out and I do think he's done a wonderful job building this squad. He definitely deserves the chance to prove he can take us to the next level this season.)
 
I've never quite got the Nevllie hate on here but this just seems odd.


Neville - United can't get a Kane, Haaland or Lukaku type striker.

Pretty sure Ronaldo out scored Kane & Lukaku last season and in the euro's.


What exactly does he mean by that?
 
I feel like Neville wants to reserve expectations as to not put too much pressure on Ole, I think all the former United players now turned pundits do that. I'm not Ole out but surely with these signings there should be more expectation from our former players turned pundits. I mean a team that finished second last season that have added Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane should definitely be in the title race and in all honesty be expected to win. I think it's a bit hypocritical tbh as if Klopp, Mourinho, Pep and Tuchel managed this squad and failed to win the league it would definitely be deemed a failure.

Again, I get he doesn't wanna put pressure on Ole but in all honesty if we don't win anything this season serious questions need to be asked about his ability as a manager.
(I'm not Ole out and I do think he's done a wonderful job building this squad. He definitely deserves the chance to prove he can take us to the next level this season.)
Yep it really did seem like that. It didn't help that hasselbaink was asking for a simple yes or no(Which he couldn't answer himself!)still with the players we've add of course we should be winning the league, now that doesn't mean it's a guarantee as there are also other great teams trying to win the league but we should be very confident.

What exactly does he mean by that?
Tbh I'm just guessing he didn't know how goals Ronaldo scored last season.
 
Yep it really did seem like that. It didn't help that hasselbaink was asking for a simple yes or no(Which he couldn't answer himself!)still with the players we've add of course we should be winning the league, now that doesn't mean it's a guarantee as there are also other great teams trying to win the league but we should be very confident.

Tbh I'm just guessing he didn't know how goals Ronaldo scored last season.
Neville asked Jimmy if he thought United would win the league and he said "I don't know". This is the thing with the pundits trying to heap pressure onto United because of the signings when they're confronted with the question "so do you think United have the best team in the league and therefore should be favourites?" their response seems to be "ermmmmmmmmm, I.... I'm not..." - none of them actually believe we've got the best squad outright.

Neville is the one brave enough to actually give an opinion. He said United can win the league and should challenge, but gun to the head he'd favour City or Chelsea to win the league because they're also 2 very good sides who are as good if not better than United. It's a perfectly respectable opinion.

In my personal opinion, Ole will only win the league if he has by far the best squad of players. Just having one of many good teams or being one of the contenders won't be enough when you're competing with teams of similar level who are managed by Klopp, Tuchel and Pep.
 
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I've never quite got the Nevllie hate on here but this just seems odd.


Neville - United can't get a Kane, Haaland or Lukaku type striker.

Pretty sure Ronaldo out scored Kane & Lukaku last season and in the euro's.

What exactly does he mean by that?
He means in the context of forward planning, Ronaldo isn't a longer term solution to the extent Lukaku, Kane or Haaland might be. He's arguably not even a medium term one, at 36.
 
He means in the context of forward planning, Ronaldo isn't a longer term solution to the extent Lukaku, Kane or Haaland might be. He's arguably not even a medium term one, at 36.
Lukaku and Kane are 28! There isn’t much forward planning there