Gary Neville - Pundit

Like I said the fact that you have to bring up the likes of Maldini and Zanetti as examples of players better than Neville says it all. Yeah Fergie played him for the lulz not because he contributed to winning at the highest level.

@Isotope can't quote your message for some reason but 1995 to 2005. If you disagree name a pl right back who was better than him over the same period and 5 right backs who were better than him over the same time span.

Obvious ones: Thuram, Zanetti, Cafu, Zambrotta, Angloma, Toricelli, Reuter, Dani Alves (later), Benarrivo. Then more or less with Panucci, Di Livio, Sagnol, Salgado, Ramos, Ferrer, T. Helveg, Pancaro, Petrescu, etc.

The list is endless of rightbacks that were (at least) equal quality to Neville on that decade.
 
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But has Pogba come out and told his agent to shut the feck up? no... at no time. not much difference between him and kane if you ask me (other than the fact tht Spurs will get small fortune for kane and we'll get bugger all when Pogba runs down his contract)

I was just curious when Jorge was contradicting and embarrassing SAF in the media during 09. Did you have this energy towards Ronaldo? I vividly remember Ronaldo directly contradicting SAF not even through his agent at times.

E.g.

SAF would come out and say "Ronaldo has been distracted by the money"

Ronaldo would come out and say "SAF is wrong, I just want to chase my dream - it's been a dream to play for Madrid" this is all while Ronaldo was playing his last full season for United - he refused to celebrate goals he was very petulant.

On top of that, his agent Jorge was giving SAF a lot of stick in the media at the time, which Ronaldo did not come and "rescue" SAF from.
Was your view of Ronaldo the same as it is now towards Pogba?
 
But has Pogba come out and told his agent to shut the feck up? no... at no time. not much difference between him and kane if you ask me (other than the fact tht Spurs will get small fortune for kane and we'll get bugger all when Pogba runs down his contract)

Huge difference between him and Kane. Pogba hasn't signed a new contract, which is 100% his right as a human being. Kane, on the other hand, is refusing to honour a contract he's already signed. Big, big difference.
 
Still can't find these "multiple times" he allegedly said he wanted to leave. He mentioned thinking about a new challenge after the fellout with the toxic one.


It's a myth that his critics keep using to ignore the truth. Same as the whole why won't be come out and tell his agent to shut up rubbish when he clearly has told him in private

Again they ignore that. Perhaps Neville is like Piers Morgan with Meghan and just upset that Pogba won't play golf with him and give him a full interview so he just spews hatred on him every chance he gets
 
Obvious ones: Thuram, Zanetti, Cafu, Zambrotta, Angloma, Toricelli, Reuter, Dani Alves (later), Benarrivo. Then more or less with Panucci, Sagnol, Salgado, Ramos, Ferrer, T. Helveg, Pancaro, Petrescu, etc.

The list is endless of rightbacks that were (at least) equal quality to Neville on that decade.

I give you Thuram, Zanetti, Cafu, and Zambrotta. Alves started playing regularly in 2002 so that doesn't count.

Reuter- didn't even play as a right back half of the time.

Angloma - retired in 2002 and his best years were before 1995.

Toricelli - again his best years were at Juve where he played in a legendary backline and was between 92-98. His career after that was average at best and after 2000 he was downright poor. Never capped after 1998 btw.

Bennarivo- class player but his peak was in 94/95 and he didn't even start most of the time post 2000

As for the rest of your list most of them weren't even playing regularly from 95-2005 with the likes of salgado only becoming a starter in 1999, ramos in 2005 etc
 
Lot of soft headed folks in here.

Pogba is getting criticised in exactly the way that Hazard did. Namely ‘You’ve got all this talent. You are head and shoulders above everyone. Why are you not maximising it’.

You can have a discussion about the differences in media treatment of Kane/Pogba. But you can’t go near an argument that suggests people branding Pogba infuriating/flaky/lazy are off their head. He’s all of those things. Pointing them out doesn’t have even a tinge of bias or prejudice.
Nah.

This is the point, Pogba has been performing well for a while now - but he will always be tarred with the same stick.

Even in a season he was our top goal scorer and assister they said he wasn't good enough because he didn't carry us to the league by himself.

He genuinely does get held to a different level. If KDB had put up 4 assists they'd dedicate an hour to saying what a great player he is, with Pogba it's " he's got to do that every week".

Take away the year he lost due to injuries and his united career really hasn't been that bad.
 
Neville always strangely eager to insinuate or just flat out label foreign players as "bad eggs" when a team is playing badly, saw it on Friday with him deciding Lacazette and Auba have downed tools to get the manager out.
 


:lol:

He can be such a disingenuous prick at times

Micah Richards' argument was about hypocrisy rather than individual players and even that they dismissively laughed off like proper bellends
 
Did you hear what Old Trafford in unison used to shout at Wenger, you know in relation to young people? What, again in unison, they used to say about Lukaku’s manhood simply due to his colour?

Crowds chant all kinds in unison, Gerrard was called, ‘you scouse bastard’ at each bloody game again Pool - are we saying the United fans feel the same about Rooney as they do Gerrard?

Falling over yourselves to equivocate two very different scenarios won’t work with me lad.

I could give multiple examples of being on the crowd when players under perform & hearing murmurs of discontent, what I can’t give you is a like for like example of the Pogba situation.

Imagine a player getting 4 assists & his clubs ‘fans’ clambering to find other things to discuss.
None of these have anywhere near the relevance. It hit different coming from your own fans at a club you spent 9 years at bleeding and sweating for. My point was about the Rooney abuse being similar to the Pogba as being abused by your own fans
 
Gary Neville was top 5 right backs in the world and best right back in the prem for a decade. To say he was not particularly good is insane. The guy is an average pundit and he was poor near the end of his career but lets not get silly.

I always thought he was solid, consistent and hard working but never world class or one of the elite talents. He was number 1 in England for his consistency but never top 5 in the world at anytime in his career for me. I think Neville was similar as a player to Lee Dixon but earned more plaudits and silverware of course. Roy Keane didn't even include him in his personal greatest Man utd 11, going with Paul Parker.
 
I always thought he was solid, consistent and hard working but never world class or one of the elite talents. He was number 1 in England for his consistency but never top 5 in the world at anytime in his career for me. I think Neville was similar as a player to Lee Dixon but earned more plaudits and silverware of course. Roy Keane didn't even include him in his personal greatest Man utd 11, going with Paul Parker.
That's fine, like Keane you are entitled to your opinion. I'm sure most of the United lads, Becks, Giggs, Scholes etc would have had him in their greatest united 11s. Dixon is regarded as one of if not Arsenals greatest right back btw. To me his consistency at the top level made him top 5 of his era. A level below the likes of Zanetti, Cafu, Thuram and Zambrotta but i'd put him above anyone else from 95-05. His peak might have been lower than some but it says something that Fergie trusted him for so long. Definitely a tier above the likes of Carragher.
 
Huge difference between him and Kane. Pogba hasn't signed a new contract, which is 100% his right as a human being. Kane, on the other hand, is refusing to honour a contract he's already signed. Big, big difference.

In one of those scenarios, the club can sell for around £100-£120 million and honour a gentlemen’s agreement apparently made with the player. In the other, the club makes nothing and the player (and his agent) can earn a massive signing bonus. Of course, it’s entirely Pogba’s right to see out his contract and move to the highest bidder but I’d certainly prefer to be in Spurs’ position than ours.
 
Neville always strangely eager to insinuate or just flat out label foreign players as "bad eggs" when a team is playing badly, saw it on Friday with him deciding Lacazette and Auba have downed tools to get the manager out.


He seems to hate a lot of French people maybe Viera still scares him
 
That's fine, like Keane you are entitled to your opinion. I'm sure most of the United lads, Becks, Giggs, Scholes etc would have had him in their greatest united 11s. Dixon is regarded as one of if not Arsenals greatest right back btw. To me his consistency at the top level made him top 5 of his era. A level below the likes of Zanetti, Cafu, Thuram and Zambrotta but i'd put him above anyone else from 95-05. His peak might have been lower than some but it says something that Fergie trusted him for so long. Definitely a tier above the likes of Carragher.

Sure, we can agree to disagree. I think Neville is the best right back we had, he was ever present in uniteds most successful period ever. Can never take that from him. I didn't mean to degrade him when I compared him to Dixon who is an Arsenal and English football league icon as well and I've always been fully aware. I watched them both
 
In one of those scenarios, the club can sell for around £100-£120 million and honour a gentlemen’s agreement apparently made with the player. In the other, the club makes nothing and the player (and his agent) can earn a massive signing bonus. Of course, it’s entirely Pogba’s right to see out his contract and move to the highest bidder but I’d certainly prefer to be in Spurs’ position than ours.

The club making nothing is purely on the club though. They could've either renewed his contract earlier, or sold him earlier. At the end of the day, it's about coming to some sort of agreement, and putting it in writing (either a contract or a transfer).

We can criticize Pogba for a lot of things, like not shutting up his agent who speaks on his behalf, but not signing a contract isn't one of them. Hence, the Kane situation is a punishable offence, while Pogba's isn't.
 
You can’t renew a contract without the player agreeing to it though. I very much doubt the club has just sat quietly and done nothing to try and renew. Similarly, you can’t sell a player unless he is prepared to leave.

Look at the Donnarumma situation with Milan and their refusal to pay Raiola his ridiculous fee to see the likely way in which negotiations are playing out. It’s entirely above board but it will still leave a very sour taste in the mouth when Pogba leaves.
 
Neville always strangely eager to insinuate or just flat out label foreign players as "bad eggs" when a team is playing badly, saw it on Friday with him deciding Lacazette and Auba have downed tools to get the manager out.
Yes, he has completely different yardsticks when it comes to British and non-British players.
 
In one of those scenarios, the club can sell for around £100-£120 million and honour a gentlemen’s agreement apparently made with the player. In the other, the club makes nothing and the player (and his agent) can earn a massive signing bonus. Of course, it’s entirely Pogba’s right to see out his contract and move to the highest bidder but I’d certainly prefer to be in Spurs’ position than ours.
We were in Spurs position and decided not to sell. That’s why Pogba only has 1 year left
 
In one of those scenarios, the club can sell for around £100-£120 million and honour a gentlemen’s agreement apparently made with the player. In the other, the club makes nothing and the player (and his agent) can earn a massive signing bonus. Of course, it’s entirely Pogba’s right to see out his contract and move to the highest bidder but I’d certainly prefer to be in Spurs’ position than ours.
Like the season when Pogba wanted off, Real made a bid and we asked them to feck off in the knowledge that the player would stay and play instead of refusing to turn up to training?
 
Neville always strangely eager to insinuate or just flat out label foreign players as "bad eggs" when a team is playing badly, saw it on Friday with him deciding Lacazette and Auba have downed tools to get the manager out.
Best thing is, most players that have played with Pogba have nothing but praise for the vibes he brings to the team. You have Varane today who spoke about Pogba and how he brings such positive vibes to the dressing room but here's Nev and Souness with their tedious shit week after week. Was brilliant how quickly they wanted to discuss the game once Micah richards brought up Kane not turning up for training.
 
Like the season when Pogba wanted off, Real made a bid and we asked them to feck off in the knowledge that the player would stay and play instead of refusing to turn up to training?
As I understand it, Kane’s situation is more akin to what would have happened if we’d prevented Ronaldo from joining Real in 2009, after Ferguson had promised him he could leave the year before. Yes, we could have forced him to stay but he would, rightly, have felt we’d reneged on a deal and I’d have expected Ronaldo to have done everything in his power to have forced our hand.
 
Huge difference between him and Kane. Pogba hasn't signed a new contract, which is 100% his right as a human being. Kane, on the other hand, is refusing to honour a contract he's already signed. Big, big difference.
unless he did have that "gentleman's" agreement with Levy
 
I was just curious when Jorge was contradicting and embarrassing SAF in the media during 09. Did you have this energy towards Ronaldo? I vividly remember Ronaldo directly contradicting SAF not even through his agent at times.

E.g.

SAF would come out and say "Ronaldo has been distracted by the money"

Ronaldo would come out and say "SAF is wrong, I just want to chase my dream - it's been a dream to play for Madrid" this is all while Ronaldo was playing his last full season for United - he refused to celebrate goals he was very petulant.

On top of that, his agent Jorge was giving SAF a lot of stick in the media at the time, which Ronaldo did not come and "rescue" SAF from.
Was your view of Ronaldo the same as it is now towards Pogba?
I think it was pretty obvious almost from the get-go that Ronaldo wanted to play for Real - he said so often enough. The only surprising things for me is that SAF managed to talk him into "one more year" and that Ronaldo moved on from Madrid. And there was another large difference: Ronaldo played brilliantly almost very game and was a huge reason we one the title in his final season. Pogba tips up every five to six games
 
unless he did have that "gentleman's" agreement with Levy

Not sure why that matters.

IMO both Pogba and Kane are open to criticism for how they've tried to get out of their clubs. This idea of 'gentleman's agreement' is nonsense like Keano said on that Sky Sports thing.

We don't even know what the agreement was. What if Levy said: 'We'll consider any fair bid for you'? His idea of fair may differ massively from Kane's. Hence why we have contracts so things are clear.

If you sign a six year contract, and you do not include anything in the contract about the terms under which a bid must be accepted, blame yourself, your agent and your lawyer.
 
Not sure why that matters.

IMO both Pogba and Kane are open to criticism for how they've tried to get out of their clubs. This idea of 'gentleman's agreement' is nonsense like Keano said on that Sky Sports thing.

We don't even know what the agreement was. What if Levy said: 'We'll consider any fair bid for you'? His idea of fair may differ massively from Kane's. Hence why we have contracts to things are clear.

If you sign a six year contract, and you do not include anything in the contract about the terms under which a bid must be accepted, blame yourself, your agent and your lawyer.
Well, I believe something my boss said to me about 18 months ago - only to be made redundant this year. Levy has never denied an agreement was made. You could say Kane (and I) were stupid to believe just words, and you might not be wrong
 
Even if there’s not much difference between what Pogba’s done and what Kane’s done, do you not see the issue of painting one as an ultimate professional, and the other as a trouble maker?
Have I ever said Kane was an ultimate professional? No... so stop putting words in my mouth. What I will say is Kane has won an awful lot of games for Spurs - rather a lot more than Pogba has for us
 
Have I ever said Kane was an ultimate professional? No... so stop putting words in my mouth. What I will say is Kane has won an awful lot of games for Spurs - rather a lot more than Pogba has for us
So it’s ok for a striker to do that?
 
Have I ever said Kane was an ultimate professional? No... so stop putting words in my mouth. What I will say is Kane has won an awful lot of games for Spurs - rather a lot more than Pogba has for us
Chill out, I was referring to what Neville and Souness said, which I thought you were contradicting.
 
Well, I believe something my boss said to me about 18 months ago - only to be made redundant this year. Levy has never denied an agreement was made. You could say Kane (and I) were stupid to believe just words, and you might not be wrong

Sorry to hear about your situation. I just think unless its set in stone somewhere you can never be sure about anything.

We've probably all been sold a pup once or twice in our lives. However, Kane's a big boy and he pays people to take care of this stuff for him. So either he or they should have sorted it. Grealish got a release clause in his contract didn't he?

As a footballer you know if you sign a six year deal, for the next four of it, you're surrendering all your leverage. Doesn't matter what they promise you.
 
Sorry to hear about your situation. I just think unless its set in stone somewhere you can never be sure about anything.

We've probably all been sold a pup once or twice in our lives. However, Kane's a big boy and he pays people to take care of this stuff for him. So either he or they should have sorted it. Grealish got a release clause in his contract didn't he?

As a footballer you know if you sign a six year deal, for the next four of it, you're surrendering all your leverage. Doesn't matter what they promise you.
Very true. I can't remember who his agent is but I still think he's going to end up at City. I till be interesting to see if he is selected by Spurs in the meantime - his "holiday" must be up by now!
 
Or when Pogba intervened, we’ll never know ey


That's not enough for the Pogba haters though. It's clear Pogba has told his agent to stop mouthing of to the press about him but some people will only accept that if Pogba comes out and tells them personally he did that

People keep coming out with why doesn't he say this or why doesn't he say that etc.

Pogba doesn't owe us an explanation for anything he does. He came here on a six year contract and if he fulfils that and leaves her owes us nothing
 
After that Salford result he will be gunning for any mis hit pass by Pogba tomorrow.
 
That's not enough for the Pogba haters though. It's clear Pogba has told his agent to stop mouthing of to the press about him but some people will only accept that if Pogba comes out and tells them personally he did that

People keep coming out with why doesn't he say this or why doesn't he say that etc.

Pogba doesn't owe us an explanation for anything he does. He came here on a six year contract and if he fulfils that and leaves her owes us nothing
just as matte of interest... how is it "clear"? what supporters want to know is whether he wants to play for United or not. if not, we should try to get a fee for him and a replacement. If this was Rooney, the caf would be wanting to declare war...