Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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RkkMan said:
Remember when Robben said he couldn't wait to play with Ronaldo but got kicked out by Madrid anyway? Or how Sneijder was famously forced out too? De Jong talking about being happy at Barcelona is exactly the same type of standard procedure as them. And that was when the transfer was in its infancy behind the scenes things are probably not the same in that same interview he said he has no preference where he wants to go and that if a club called him with interest he'd listen
On the bolded part you have no evidence of this. If they prefer to keep him why have they agreed a fee with Utd? Because they'd just shove us off if it was clear they have to do it if they didn't want to. It's a case of who blinks first and like De Jong Barcelona will drag things as much as possible till they're faced with a decision to make. With their levers coming in time will tell
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I think there is a major thing that you are missing in that there. De Jong is owed money and wont leave until that is given to him. Barca do not plan on giving him the money.

Actually there is evidence, the defered wage was structured in a way that his wage (£17m) will be compensated from this season where his salary is increased gradually per season until his contract ends. They have structured it in a way where if he leaves, he foregoes the money as it is part of the contract.

Which is why Barca are saying, reduce your wage or leave, which is a clear indication of they will not pay the £17m.

Barca don't need to blink, there has been so much evidence over the last few years that they somehow find the money. They will find the money again if he doesnt leave. Dont be surprised.
 
Lemoor said:
The third thing is Barca will lose a much bigger amount of money if he stays that they likely can't afford to lose.
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Yep and 4 weeks ago they were going bankrupt and needed to sell to buy. oh wait, they have just spend 110m and not needed to sell.

Barca will find a way to get the money, La Liga need Barca to be competitive, they will back them in any way required.
 


The whole thread is worth a read, but this final summation says everything you need to know about how Barca are approaching everything. This will go right up to the 30th at minimum and end of the window at worst.
 
Random Task said:
I thought United had agreed to cover the owed wages when the transfer fee suddenly rose to £75 million + a futher 10 in addons overnight. But I'm not so sure that's the case anymore.
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That is what I thought too. I don't know what our men in suits discussed with Barca when they went there. But looks like it had nothing to do with Barca using the increased offer to compensate FDJ. So it seems like our initial 65M + 20 was not agreed by Barca and we just met them halfway in their 85M flat demand.
 
I think there is some chance FDJ wants to move.

1. FDJ has not publicly stated he doesn't want to come. Even his agent hasn't. He can put a stop to all this by just reaffirming his intentions to stay. It's very easy to do as the news of his departure is all over the internet.

2. Manutd have publicly stated they want FDJ. By United supremo's being in Barcelona discussing about his transfer & By agreeing to pay over 80M.

3. Barca has stated publicly they wanted to offload FDJ. By discussing with United & agreeing a transfer fee and by their president or who was it, confirming they need to sell players. It's only FDJ Barca have agreed transfer transaction.


Meaning, it's only FDJ camp which has not stated it's wish publicly or explicitly. Here is where rumours, lies, half truths, opinions vary alot, some say he doesn't want to leave other say it can't be all this has been done without FDJ giving a nod to go to United.

So why has FDJ refused to make a decision per say, publicly? He can do it and end all the chase.

Either for him it's status quo remain - he doesn't see the need to say anything to what is not changing. In that he's remaining at Barca so why should I speak about something that's not happening.

Or

He's holding on to something that will make him make a better decision and say his intentions. In that there is something that has to happen for him to be in a better place to make a decision.


So what do you think makes sense?
 
Not being negative as I suspect there's far more to this than meets the eye and there's a lot of bluffing going on but...

...this is going to look pretty bad if it doesn't happen and things start to go wrong during the season. We're getting our hopes up that this is a new era of competence now that Ed's gone and that we have a vision and a stricture now etc. This sort of seems like previous transfer sagas in the post SAF years however.

Still think he will join us eventually.
 
I asked this a few pages back, but didn't get an answer. So I'll ask again

What's the point of increasing the base transfer fee for Frenkie to 75m Euro if this doesn't help in moving the transfer forward? I've read that with the increase Barca then can pay Frenkie his delayed wage. But that didn't happen, so what's the point?

I'm beginning to think that this is more than just delayed wage.
 
Ten Hag on… Frenkie de Jong

“We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position, but it has to be the right one. There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position.

“I will not react on a certain player. We need the right player. We have a list and we qualify as the player who has the competencies to play that role. We will strike the moment the player is available.”
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romufc said:
I think there is a major thing that you are missing in that there. De Jong is owed money and wont leave until that is given to him. Barca do not plan on giving him the money.

Actually there is evidence, the defered wage was structured in a way that his wage (£17m) will be compensated from this season where his salary is increased gradually per season until his contract ends. They have structured it in a way where if he leaves, he foregoes the money as it is part of the contract.

Which is why Barca are saying, reduce your wage or leave, which is a clear indication of they will not pay the £17m.

Barca don't need to blink, there has been so much evidence over the last few years that they somehow find the money. They will find the money again if he doesnt leave. Dont be surprised.
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Again you have no clear evidence of this. In their financial situation they'll definitely try as hard as possible to sell without paying the deferred wages but at some point they'll have to make a decision of either allowing an €85m transaction fail over €17m(so case of risky cost saving or guaranteed reward) risk paying him MORE money over time as he's due a salary increase which is something they can't afford in their current state and there's no guarantee he accepts a wage cut/another deferral despite his "love" for Barcelona. They wouldn't agree to a Transfer this expensive and complex just for some sinister game/strategy at a time they NEED money. The Economic Levers will aid them of course but they're throwing away future revenue to cover current debt and they still need to raise a lot of cash and cut on a lot of costs to balance the books. Keeping Frenkie won't make them crumble but it'll sure as hell make things two if not three times more complicated
 
Cypriot said:
We've done it for a while now, what's one more season? :wenger:
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I don't think we can hang ETH out to dry like that. And nobody wants another season of McFred (though I am secretly curious if ETH can make it work.)
 
Laurie Whitwell: Ten Hag would not be drawn on the specifics of the De Jong pursuit, but it was telling he chose to focus on United’s need for a holding midfielder. Clearly, he sees De Jong as that type of player. Not all those who sit need to have tackling as a prime characteristic — Michael Carrick being one from United’s past — rather Ten Hag wants competency on the ball. He also sees his midfield as rotating, allowing for those moments when De Jong carries the ball up the pitch.
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pocco said:
I don't even get the point he's making about the Luckhurst article. That he'll repeat it all in a few weeks? He's saying it's stuff we already knew, so why has nobody been talking about the fact that we're negotiating in the hope that Barca can force him out? That's new information (although I said I suspected as much).



To announce what? That they are no longer selling him? Maybe they won't and they'll just continue with their pre-season.
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They have agreed with us on the transfer of FdJ. That’s a fact. That fact in itself suggest that they want him to leave the club. If they changed their mind, they would speak out. It’s not only rumours going on, it’s serious business. They would have to inform us first and foremost, then the media afterwards.
 
Lash said:


The whole thread is worth a read, but this final summation says everything you need to know about how Barca are approaching everything. This will go right up to the 30th at minimum and end of the window at worst.
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Everything is pointing to the deal being dead. It is really negligent to maintain our stance at this point, not for such a crucial position.
 
pcaming said:
Everything is pointing to the deal being dead. It is really negligent to maintain our stance at this point, not for such a crucial position.
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Can't see how it's dead to be fair. But you're free to believe that.

There's literally nothing different from last week being said today
 
"We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position," Ten Hag clarified, "but it has to be the right one.

"There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position."

Doesn't sound like there is an alternative target to De Jong.
 
reelworld said:
I asked this a few pages back, but didn't get an answer. So I'll ask again

What's the point of increasing the base transfer fee for Frenkie to 75m Euro if this doesn't help in moving the transfer forward? I've read that with the increase Barca then can pay Frenkie his delayed wage. But that didn't happen, so what's the point?

I'm beginning to think that this is more than just delayed wage.
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Because we only had a broad agreement on the total but not on the addons. Barcelona just weren’t accepting the structure of the deal until we offered more upfront. As far as I remember it was tweeted that they would accept the fee if we front loaded more of the fee anyway and they did. That’s the easy part done.
 
DSG said:
Yes, because any hint of having an alternative contract puts the deferred wages in doubt from a legal perspective. Nothing signed, but surely it’s been discussed.
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That’s just speculation. That’s just hoping that De Jong does want to and will agree come here if the defected wages gets sorted. Most reports state that he is reluctant to move here. You can interpret that as been entirely down to not wanting to discuss moving until the differed wage situation is sorted, but that is pure speculation based on no fact.
 
unplayable said:
"We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position," Ten Hag clarified, "but it has to be the right one.

"There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position."

Doesn't sound like there is an alternative target to De Jong.
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Neves is not the type of player EtH are looking for based on our pursuit of FdJ.
 
RkkMan said:
Again you have no clear evidence of this. In their financial situation they'll definitely try as hard as possible to sell without paying the deferred wages but at some point they'll have to make a decision of either allowing an €85m transaction fail over €17m(so case of risky cost saving or guaranteed reward) risk paying him MORE money over time as he's due a salary increase which is something they can't afford in their current state and there's no guarantee he accepts a wage cut/another deferral despite his "love" for Barcelona. They wouldn't agree to a Transfer this expensive and complex just for some sinister game/strategy at a time they NEED money. The Economic Levers will aid them of course but they're throwing away future revenue to cover current debt and they still need to raise a lot of cash and cut on a lot of costs to balance the books. Keeping Frenkie won't make them crumble but it'll sure as hell make things two if not three times more complicated
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Neither do you, no clear evidence that it is not the case. The money owed to De Jong is not a lump sum 17m, I hope you understand that?

Would it be ideal if Frenkie said okay thanks, you have accepted the fee, I am off? Yes. You are missing the key point that Frenkie does not want that and wants to stay at Barca, regardless of how he is treated.

He is under contract and they will have to pay his wage this season and next season regardless, they cannot do anything if he does not accept to leave. Remember Jones ? he rejected a move to France? United want to get rid but can't because he wants to stay and pick up the wage.

However; In Frenkie's case, he knows if he stays Xavi will play him, so its win win for him.

On the bolded part, you have no evidence that Barca can't afford him. A few weeks ago the caf was saying they cant afford Lewandowski or Raphinia... but oh wait they signed both and resigned Dembele.

So you have 0 evidence that they cannot afford FDJ.
 
romufc said:
I think there is a major thing that you are missing in that there. De Jong is owed money and wont leave until that is given to him. Barca do not plan on giving him the money.

Actually there is evidence, the defered wage was structured in a way that his wage (£17m) will be compensated from this season where his salary is increased gradually per season until his contract ends. They have structured it in a way where if he leaves, he foregoes the money as it is part of the contract.

Which is why Barca are saying, reduce your wage or leave, which is a clear indication of they will not pay the £17m.

Barca don't need to blink, there has been so much evidence over the last few years that they somehow find the money. They will find the money again if he doesnt leave. Dont be surprised.
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Not sure they can meet the FFP salary cap with his new inflated wages in the mix.
 
unplayable said:
"We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position," Ten Hag clarified, "but it has to be the right one.

"There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position."

Doesn't sound like there is an alternative target to De Jong.
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I would prefer not signing anyone than to spend huge amounts on players who will never be good enough for where we want to be. We have a good conveyer belt of young midfielders coming through, one of them is bound to take the chances that they will inevitably get this season if we don't sign anyone in that position.
 
reelworld said:
I asked this a few pages back, but didn't get an answer. So I'll ask again

What's the point of increasing the base transfer fee for Frenkie to 75m Euro if this doesn't help in moving the transfer forward? I've read that with the increase Barca then can pay Frenkie his delayed wage. But that didn't happen, so what's the point?

I'm beginning to think that this is more than just delayed wage.
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Good Point... That is really surprising. Maybe Barca just bluffed and got an increased offer from us. Now they are again back to lowballing FDJ.
 
George The Best said:
Not sure they can meet the FFP salary cap with his new inflated wages in the mix.
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I wasnt sure they could sign 2 players for 120m either but they did. Barca are corrupt and they find a way to manage it, dont be surprised if FDJ is at Barca come 1st September.
 
unplayable said:
"We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position," Ten Hag clarified, "but it has to be the right one.

"There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position."

Doesn't sound like there is an alternative target to De Jong.
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Well I’d rather he invested time in the young players like zidane if that’s the case. No sense buying someone just to have an extra body
 
Pretty much looks like it's Frenkie or nothing. And fair enough I'd say. People will moan but better not to spend money on a player you don't really want.
 
unplayable said:
"We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position," Ten Hag clarified, "but it has to be the right one.

"There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position."

Doesn't sound like there is an alternative target to De Jong.
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I don't have a problem with this, Iqbal has been a pleasant surprise on tour and we also have Garner in the squad who has the ability to be coached into that role. The rebuild will take more than one window and if ETH believes it's De Jong or develop from inside the squad, I think we should trust that opinion.
 
Acquire Me said:
Neves is not the type of player EtH are looking for based on our pursuit of FdJ.
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If I was to guess. If everyone was realistic the group of players would be: Kimmich, Verratti, Jorginho and De Jong.
 
unplayable said:
"We are looking for a player who can play in the holding midfield position," Ten Hag clarified, "but it has to be the right one.

"There are not many in that position capable of the level we demand. When we can’t find him, we have to deal with the players in our squad now and we will develop one in that position."

Doesn't sound like there is an alternative target to De Jong.
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That sounds to me like a) there aren't many players in the market that he trusts to carry out the function of an effective CDM, b) he expects FDJ to become available at some point, and c) until we do get him the likes of Garner / Zidane will be moulded to suit.

I have to say its refreshing to continue going after our number 1 target, when clearly in the past, we have paid big money for those 3 or 4 down on the list, but I just wish we knew whether we were being encouraged behind the scenes or not, and everyone is being honest and we are not being used here...
 
romufc said:
Neither do you, no clear evidence that it is not the case. The money owed to De Jong is not a lump sum 17m, I hope you understand that?

Would it be ideal if Frenkie said okay thanks, you have accepted the fee, I am off? Yes. You are missing the key point that Frenkie does not want that and wants to stay at Barca, regardless of how he is treated.

He is under contract and they will have to pay his wage this season and next season regardless, they cannot do anything if he does not accept to leave. Remember Jones ? he rejected a move to France? United want to get rid but can't because he wants to stay and pick up the wage.

However; In Frenkie's case, he knows if he stays Xavi will play him, so its win win for him.

On the bolded part, you have no evidence that Barca can't afford him. A few weeks ago the caf was saying they cant afford Lewandowski or Raphinia... but oh wait they signed both and resigned Dembele.

So you have 0 evidence that they cannot afford FDJ.
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Lewandowski is earning 9m net and I read from somewhere Barcelona are trying to get EVERY player to earn below 10m net which is the limit they`re trying to achieve. Frenkie is currently on 18m net if his wage stayed the same he`d be the highest paid player in the squad. There`s a reason why they`re desperately trying to get his salary either down or off the books completely if even one of the best STs ITW is only on 9m net and on a contract with a REDUCING salary over time. It may not be 100% concrete but that there is the evidence needed to show that Frenkie`s wages if he stayed is unsustainable if he stayed. They will pay yes but at a big cost they are trying hard to avoid and I`ll say again for the last time because everyone on the CAF has tried to tell you but you`re intentionally going in circles Frenkie doesn`t want to stay "at all costs" and there`s again evidence of that
Jones is a poor example because we weren`t in the same financial situation as Barca to make that point relevant or similar
 
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