Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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With his style, I can picture him suffer tons of heavy tackle and out-muscled if other teams take him seriously and put a plan to freeze him.

He could adapt to PL football only in a established system like Man City. With Man Utd, he could be easily turned into invisible like VDB , who like to play pass-and-run while no one passes back to him.

Another point is, he actually the opposite to Rangnick 's football which asks for intense pressing and counter attack in high up area (so called gegenpress) . I doubt Rangnick would like to recruit him if he is giving the advice.
 
Mainoldo said:
So what’s he on?
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When he signed and according to fairly reliable sources, his salary was at 6-7 million net.
When he renewed it was said that his salary was adapted to the situation of the pandemic.
I don't know how much he earns now
 
Mainoldo said:
That’s better. Could understand him going off the rails with that ridiculous salary they was talking about.
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Oh yes, this was pre the pandemic though I believe so he could be on less now.
 
Bebestation said:
Just out of interest, can you name me 5 Netherlands players that you do rate highly?
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I do rate Frenkie so:

Van Dijk
F. de Jong
De Vrij
Danjuma (though he's not the finished product)
Berghuis (this is heavily biased)
 
Bennie Blanco said:
I see it differently.

For example, it's never about Manchester United, it's about Dutch player van de Beek and Manchester United.

As for Ruud van Nistelrooy, Fergie was in the wrong, not van Nistelrooy. How dare Sir Alex treat our boy like that (same with Stam).

Frenkie de Jong and Depay are brilliant players and are not culpable of Barcelona's struggles. It was Depay who carried Barcelona at the start of the season right? Now the goals have dried up, we have something to fall back on.

But..! Depay looked great when the Netherlands beat the top nations in glorified friendlies, better known as the Nations League.

This clear bias, patriotism, or nationalism if you like, is something that will never go away. No one gave a flying one about F1 about 10 years ago, now every man and his dog have jumped on the bandwagon because of Verstappen. Everyone's an authority now..

Gravenberch is one to look out for. He's an absolute unit.
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Of course you have fans and biases, but Memphis Depay gets absolutely demolished in Dutch media and by a huge contingent of Dutch football fans for instance. Same for Frenkie de Jong who has been labeled an overrated back pass merchant by everyone bar Ajax fans (though granted, they are many) while everyone with half a brain and a third of an eye can see De Jong is very talented.

We are obviously not objective when it comes to our own players, no country is, but labeling patriotism as something inherently Dutch is rather far off the mark. We're a complaining sort who doubt and critisize our leader and superiors.

Gravenbergh is overrated. Orkun Kokcu is much better :wenger:

Oh and I will conceded you the silly Max Verstappen adulation.
 
His dad came out and said it is imaginable Frenkie will move. Clubs have been calling.

But he doesnt like the weather in Manchester or Munich.

This makes no sense, as he wont be sold to Real, I doubt he would go to Atletico. The weather isnt much better elsewhere in the UK nor Paris. Only Juventus/Inter seem like top clubs he could go to with good weather. Doubt they can afford him.

Dad was probably BS'ing.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Of course you have fans and biases, but Memphis Depay gets absolutely demolished in Dutch media and by a huge contingent of Dutch football fans for instance. Same for Frenkie de Jong who has been labeled an overrated back pass merchant by everyone bar Ajax fans (though granted, they are many).

We are obviously not objective when it comes to our own players, no country is, but labeling patriotism as something inherently Dutch is rather far off the mark. We're a complaining sort.

Gravenbergh is overrated. Orkun Kokcu is much better :wenger:
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I don't endorse this sentiment that Frenkie was largely labelled as an overrated back pass merchant.

Absolutely far from it, if people criticise him it is for a lack of goals/assists or too much running/walking with the ball.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Of course you have fans and biases, but Memphis Depay gets absolutely demolished in Dutch media and by a huge contingent of Dutch football fans for instance. Same for Frenkie de Jong who has been labeled an overrated back pass merchant by everyone bar Ajax fans (though granted, they are many).

We are obviously not objective when it comes to our own players, no country is, but labeling patriotism as something inherently Dutch is rather far off the mark. We're a complaining sort.

Gravenbergh is overrated. Orkun Kokcu is much better :wenger:
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In all fairness, to your credit, you're incredibly level headed.

I just read an article where his dad states that he's no intention of leaving Barcelona. Especially not interested in Munich and/or United, whom made inquiries, because of the shite weather.

As already mentioned in my previous post, I hope that we go for Gravenberch.
 
afatzp said:
With his style, I can picture him suffer tons of heavy tackle and out-muscled if other teams take him seriously and put a plan to freeze him.

He could adapt to PL football only in a established system like Man City. With Man Utd, he could be easily turned into invisible like VDB , who like to play pass-and-run while no one passes back to him.

Another point is, he actually the opposite to Rangnick 's football which asks for intense pressing and counter attack in high up area (so called gegenpress) . I doubt Rangnick would like to recruit him if he is giving the advice.
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This shouldn't be a problem if both of them are on the pitch at the same time. Would be a pretty awesome midfield
 
AjaxCunian said:
I don't endorse this sentiment that Frenkie was largely labelled as an overrated back pass merchant.

Absolutely far from it, if people criticise him it is for a lack of goals/assists or too much running/walking with the ball.
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Judging by your name I think you read voetbalzone and there's a very large contingent on their endlessly whinging on about tikkie breed and tikkie terug. Not saying they represent the majority of Dutch fans, but the lack of credit Frenk de Jong has is somewhat puzzling to me. He's clearly very good.
 
If there was a time to get him for cheap its right now. Hopefully we have him on our list.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Judging by your name I think you read voetbalzone and there's a very large contingent on their endlessly whinging on about tikkie breed and tikkie terug. Not saying they represent the majority of Dutch fans, but the lack of credit Frenk de Jong has is somewhat puzzling to me. He's clearly very good.
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I don't think that was their main criticism of him at all, especially not at Ajax. He has always been known as a great playmaker / progressor of play, passing inbetween lines, making runs. Maybe holding unto the ball a bit too long (which is actually a far better thing that most people realise, against compact set ups you often need to wait for the pass that between the lines that actually can split open the opponents set-up), but I might have missed it.

Whilst being a very good passer, his high through passes and cross passes arent that great. He's no Scholes/Kroos/Pogba/Tiago by any means, this also makes him not a very creative midfielder in terms of creating chances but creative rather in getting the ball to the final third or making plays that gets the team to the final third.

Funnily enough, he used to be a 10, but AWB used to be a winger I guess.
 
AjaxCunian said:
I don't think that was their main criticism of him at all, especially not at Ajax. He has always been known as a great playmaker / progressor of play, passing inbetween lines, making runs. Maybe holding unto the ball a bit too long (which is actually a far better thing that most people realise, against compact set ups you often need to wait for the pass that between the lines that actually can split open the opponents set-up), but I might have missed it.

Whilst being a very good passer, his high through passes and cross passes arent that great. He's no Scholes/Kroos/Pogba/Tiago by any means, this also makes him not a very creative midfielder in terms of creating chances but creative rather in getting the ball to the final third or making plays that gets the team to the final third.

Funnily enough, he used to be a 10, but AWB used to be a winger I guess.
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Ah no, you misudnerstand. I mean the general public accuses him of being a backpass merchant. Not most critics or the people at Ajax.
 
AjaxCunian said:
His dad came out and said it is imaginable Frenkie will move. Clubs have been calling.

But he doesnt like the weather in Manchester or Munich.

This makes no sense, as he wont be sold to Real, I doubt he would go to Atletico. The weather isnt much better elsewhere in the UK nor Paris. Only Juventus/Inter seem like top clubs he could go to with good weather. Doubt they can afford him.

Dad was probably BS'ing.
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Honestly, who likes the weather in Manchester or Munich?
 
Abraxas said:
I think he's one of those guys that gets incredibly pumped up on here because he's got a very pleasing set of skills that are in line with what people like to see. However, it doesn't mean he hasn't got significant weaknesses as well.

People will exaggerate somebody like Rice's weaknesses, but when it comes to a de Jong apparently how lightweight he is and the fact he isn't going to be great at pressing and defensively aren't important. Even though in modern football we know that competitive midfields are a huge part of an overall strategy. I think there's a certain tunnel vision for sets of attributes and it doesn't always follow the trends in football.

He would cost an absolute fortune overall, that's worth considering. By the time you've paid his fee and wages there would be little left. I don't think he would be any cheaper than Rice overall and we complain about his price (probably quite rightly)
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Where do people get this from? He has technique so therefore he must be lightweight right?
 
AjaxCunian said:
His dad came out and said it is imaginable Frenkie will move. Clubs have been calling.

But he doesnt like the weather in Manchester or Munich.

This makes no sense, as he wont be sold to Real, I doubt he would go to Atletico. The weather isnt much better elsewhere in the UK nor Paris. Only Juventus/Inter seem like top clubs he could go to with good weather. Doubt they can afford him.

Dad was probably BS'ing.
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It says too 5 clubs in Europe. Presumably they included Liverpool and City in that. Does it rain less in Liverpool or the blue bit of Manchester?
It’s absolute nonsense unless they mean top 5 clubs in mainland Europe but he should be careful what they wish for because Italian clubs are broke, juventus could end up in the shit again with this investigation going on, I doubt Madrid will buy him from Barca. Where is he going to go exactly? Choices are thin
 
golden_blunder said:
It says too 5 clubs in Europe. Presumably they included Liverpool and City in that. Does it rain less in Liverpool or the blue bit of Manchester?
It’s absolute nonsense unless they mean top 5 clubs in mainland Europe but he should be careful what they wish for because Italian clubs are broke, juventus could end up in the shit again with this investigation going on, I doubt Madrid will buy him from Barca. Where is he going to go exactly? Choices are thin
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Yeah I have no idea what the dad is on about.
 
I haven’t seen him play that much. Is he the sort of player we need?
 
Pogba plus cash for Frenkie next month would make sense for us, although probably not for Pogba unless he really wants to play for Barcelona. Martial perhaps, they need a striker.
 
golden_blunder said:
It says too 5 clubs in Europe. Presumably they included Liverpool and City in that. Does it rain less in Liverpool or the blue bit of Manchester?
It’s absolute nonsense unless they mean top 5 clubs in mainland Europe but he should be careful what they wish for because Italian clubs are broke, juventus could end up in the shit again with this investigation going on, I doubt Madrid will buy him from Barca. Where is he going to go exactly? Choices are thin
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If he doesnt fancy England, only Bayern or PSG remain as options. Both were interested the summer he moved.
 
golden_blunder said:
Well he also ruled out Munich because of the weather so..
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Isn't the weather in Southern Germany pretty good? It's better than over here, that's for sure.

What kind of self respectung Dutchman complains about weather anyway. Though Frenkie is a whingy cnut on the field too I guess.
 
Henandez14 said:
Where do people get this from? He has technique so therefore he must be lightweight right?
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The stats tell you he's not a defensive powerhouse or going to be pressing much, I don't think you'll get better evidence than that because the fact is most people cream their pants once they see a wonderful technician. Suddenly they're the solution to every problem and they completely ignore the full package.

And yes I think he'd be pretty lightweight in this league.
 
Abraxas said:
The stats tell you he's not a defensive powerhouse or going to be pressing much, I don't think you'll get better evidence than that because the fact is most people cream their pants once they see a wonderful technician. Suddenly they're the solution to every problem and they completely ignore the full package.

And yes I think he'd be pretty lightweight in this league.
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He's played as a defender at both Ajax and Barca. While I'm not a statman, I think the problem with De Jong is people think he is an attacking player. He's not.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Isn't the weather in Southern Germany pretty good? It's better than over here, that's for sure.

What kind of self respectung Dutchman complains about weather anyway. Though Frenkie is a whingy cnut on the field too I guess.
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Yeah it’s made me question his mentality if weather makes a huge difference to club choice
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's played as a defender at both Ajax and Barca. While I'm not a statman, I think the problem with De Jong is people think he is an attacking player. He's not.
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I don't see why that matters.

Stats are stats. If you're very low percentile for defensive actions it's because you don't do much of those things. Clearly there's a context, it depends on the team as well, but invariably it tells something of the players characteristics.

All I'm saying is I don't think he's this rounded player. He's very good at certain things. Yet some people think he's an instant solution just because of passing and touch and ability to receive the ball. I think it's because he's got the things we're missing. But the problem is it depends on the intended style of the team. I think he's wonderful in a possession based side but we'd have to change half a squad to become that. We're more likely to become a direct, aggressive, pressing side with some coaching.

For example, Rice is way more suited. People can have their opinions on quality and what they value, but in terms of slotting in quite logically, it's a no brainer.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I do rate Frenkie so:

Van Dijk
F. de Jong
De Vrij
Danjuma (though he's not the finished product)
Berghuis (this is heavily biased)
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Just out of interest:
Why is Danjuma on that list, and when will he become the finished article (he turns 25 in January)?
Is he playing on a higher level than Depay or De Ligt you think?
 
golden_blunder said:
It says too 5 clubs in Europe. Presumably they included Liverpool and City in that. Does it rain less in Liverpool or the blue bit of Manchester?
It’s absolute nonsense unless they mean top 5 clubs in mainland Europe but he should be careful what they wish for because Italian clubs are broke, juventus could end up in the shit again with this investigation going on, I doubt Madrid will buy him from Barca. Where is he going to go exactly? Choices are thin
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Choices are definitely thin.
Bebestation said:
Just out of interest, can you name me 5 Netherlands players that you do rate highly?
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Define highly?
 
Bennie Blanco said:
I see it differently.

For example, it's never about Manchester United, it's about Dutch player van de Beek and Manchester United.

As for Ruud van Nistelrooy, Fergie was in the wrong, not van Nistelrooy. How dare Sir Alex treat our boy like that (same with Stam).

Frenkie de Jong and Depay are brilliant players and are not culpable of Barcelona's struggles. It was Depay who carried Barcelona at the start of the season right? Now the goals have dried up, we have something to fall back on.

But..! Depay looked great when the Netherlands beat the top nations in glorified friendlies, better known as the Nations League.

This clear bias, patriotism, or nationalism if you like, is something that will never go away. No one gave a flying one about F1 about 10 years ago, now every man and his dog have jumped on the bandwagon because of Verstappen. Everyone's an authority now..

Gravenberch is one to look out for. He's an absolute unit.
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you lost me right about here
 
Can't see it this window. I think Ralf is intent in bringing some intensity and power into the side.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
Choices are definitely thin.


Define highly?
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It wasn't really a question for everyone- it was question more for @KirkDuyt due to how I have seen him talk down some Netherlands players like Van De Beek and a bit in this thread talking down about De Jong.

It's not that I disagree or agree - I just wanted to see who he rated as a Dutch player highly/higher right now.
 
Bebestation said:
It wasn't really a question for everyone- it was question more for @KirkDuyt due to how I have seen him talk down some Netherlands players like Van De Beek and a bit in this thread talking down about De Jong.

It's not that I disagree or agree - I just wanted to see who he rated as a Dutch player highly/higher right now.
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Ah ok... Never mind then :D
 
Abraxas said:
The stats tell you he's not a defensive powerhouse or going to be pressing much, I don't think you'll get better evidence than that because the fact is most people cream their pants once they see a wonderful technician. Suddenly they're the solution to every problem and they completely ignore the full package.

And yes I think he'd be pretty lightweight in this league.
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Which stats? And from which season?
 
pretty funny the guy is complaining about weather when he comes from Holland....ffs if weather is a concern he might as well move to the states b/c just about anywhere in europe other than Spain and Southern France/Italy is going to have cold weather on a more regular basis than warm weather.

all that said...it does look like the window of opportunity to get him out of Barcelona is/has opened up more so than anyone really would have thought
 
I don't see him suiting us right now. If Ten Hag becomes our next manager then yes definitely.
 
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