Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Brownie85]

I have tried to adopt that if we are walking away from this deal then Utd journos would have been briefed stance for so long, however my patience has started to wear very thin on this whole saga

Don't get me wrong, i totally understand the frustration and i'd be lying if i said i don't share them frustrations... but whilst there is nothing saying we're walking away, confirming the reports from Spain or no brief from the club, then it's my belief that we're still very much in for him and things are progressing as United are expecting them too.

You have to assume that United expected this would happen. de Jong wan't paying what he's due, Barca don't want to pay it as they can't really afford too. I imagine eventually they're going to come to a compromise and things will end. FdJ and his agent have ruled out any more paycuts, so it's upto Barca to figure out what they're going to do... They need his wage off the books, but they can't just turn round and say you're going whether you like it or not, as they want to paint the picture that de Jong is the bad guy.

 

[ReallyUSA]

My hubris has been taken away. I hate this

 

[Red the Bear]

It's over boys, the fecker just ate Frankie.

 

[Amarsdd]

Which would mean FdJ will lose his outstanding 17 million Euro.

According to Barcelona posters here FdJ signed a new contract starting the upcoming season. Over the time of this contract he will be paid his new salary and the "deferred" 17 million Euro.
If he decides to leave before the contract even starts, h most likely will wave his claim for the 17 million Euro.
To expect Barcelona to pay him the outstanding money anyway, e.g. for moral reasons, is totally unrealistic. Without a legally binding obligation Barcelona won't pay a dime.
Of course United could offer him to cover for the loss and pay FdJ a 17 million Euro joining bonus. I don't see any other way this is going to happen.

If that is true, then FDJ, his agent and lawyers have been absolutely dumb or properly hoodwinked to agree to something like that. Its basically like saying your current salary will be paid to you in the future but is contingent on your future "performance".

 

[croadyman]

There are alternatives to De Jong if what we're looking for is a technically excellent deep lying playmaker. Ruiz at Napoli and Kokcu at Feyenoord off the top of my head.

Yeah time to start negotiations with plan B whoever that is of course, could a midfield work of a DLP and Eriksen or is a CDM essential

 

[B. Munich]

You're consistently ignoring the fact that Barcelona want and need to get rid of him and his regular wages as well.

That's why they want him to accept a salary cut. They can put pressure on him to do so but can't force him.

 

[devilish]

If that is true, then FDJ, his agent and lawyers have been absolutely dumb or properly hoodwinked to agree to something like that. Its basically like saying your current salary will be paid to you in the future but is contingent on your future "performance".

especially with a club who is 1B in debt. There's every chance that Barcelona FC won't exist in 2 years time

 

[Lash]

Which would mean FdJ will lose his outstanding 17 million Euro.

According to Barcelona posters here FdJ signed a new contract starting the upcoming season. Over the time of this contract he will be paid his new salary and the "deferred" 17 million Euro.
If he decides to leave before the contract even starts, h most likely will wave his claim for the 17 million Euro.
To expect Barcelona to pay him the outstanding money anyway, e.g. for moral reasons, is totally unrealistic. Without a legally binding obligation Barcelona won't pay a dime.
Of course United could offer him to cover for the loss and pay FdJ a 17 million Euro joining bonus. I don't see any other way this is going to happen.

This story doesn't really hold water though as laporta has come out and said players need to accept the new salary limits.

So if he has signed that deal, Barcelona have destroyed their salary limit for the remainder of that contract if they don't sell him. I dont see why United would bail FDJ or Barca out from their poor decisions. A compromise should be made, but it appears FDJ wants what he signed up for and Barca don't want to pay what they promised. Neither can happen in reality.

 

[RDCR07]

With this deferred wages debacle no wonder Frenkie says he wants to stay at Barca. At this point it’s not love for the club it’s necessity cause they fecking owe him 17m quid.

 

[the_cliff]

If that is true, then FDJ, his agent and lawyers have been absolutely dumb or properly hoodwinked to agree to something like that. Its basically like saying your current salary will be paid to you in the future but is contingent on your future "performance".

That's definitely not true. Come on you're going to believe Barca posters ?

They think their club is ran by angels and everything is fairy tale.

 

[devilish]

This story doesn't really hold water though as laporta has come out and said players need to accept the new salary limits.

So if he has signed that deal, Barcelona have destroyed their salary limit for the remainder of that contract if they don't sell him. I dont see why United would bail FDJ or Barca out from their poor decisions. A compromise should be made, but it appears FDJ wants what he signed up for and Barca don't want to pay what they promised. Neither can happen in reality.

If you ask me, its Barca trying to get out of paying the salary due and FDJ making sure that this doesn't happen. Probably they both expect us to foot the bill. As said let's move to plan B and see how this farce would evolve. If Barca learns that someone like Fabian Ruiz is close to sign with us then there's every chance they would lose their cool and give their go ahead. They can't afford keeping De Jong

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This story doesn't really hold water though as laporta has come out and said players need to accept the new salary limits.

So if he has signed that deal, Barcelona have destroyed their salary limit for the remainder of that contract if they don't sell him. I dont see why United would bail FDJ or Barca out from their poor decisions. A compromise should be made, but it appears FDJ wants what he signed up for and Barca don't want to pay what they promised. Neither can happen in reality.

Exactly this.

He continues to ignore that FDJ has 4 years to run on his deal, and with big wages. He has every right to simply stay and completely feck up this new wage structure and screw up Laporta’s possibilities of registering new players.

 

[Lash]

If you ask me, its Barca trying to get out of paying the salary due and FDJ making sure that this doesn't happen. Probably they both expect us to foot the bill

Agreed, that's what I was trying to say in a convoluted way

 

[Shakesy]

It's over boys, the fecker just ate Frankie.

Call mother goat to cut open his stomach, #freefrenkie, chuck in a couple of rocks and let him take a drink from the river of tears currently flowing from RedCafe.

 

[B. Munich]

But how much is the new reduced salary? Wouldn't he end up losing roughly similar amount if he stayed, which he could instead earn at a different club who'd pay his current wages to him. And maybe add in a bonus or so?

Also Barca reneging on paying someone their dues, which the player let go off temporarily to keep the club running, should of course be a huge a red flag to potential new signings.

My guess would be somewhere between 10 and 15 million Euro. So he gets between 2 to 7 million Euro more if he stays. Plus he can stay and play at his dream club.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If that is true, then FDJ, his agent and lawyers have been absolutely dumb or properly hoodwinked to agree to something like that. Its basically like saying your current salary will be paid to you in the future but is contingent on your future "performance".

Well it’s not.

De Jong doesn’t need to perform or even play, for the next 4 years Barça must pay him a minimum 17 million per season even if he plays in the B team.

 

[devilish]

Agreed, that's what I was trying to say in a convoluted way

As said before let's move to plan B and see how this farce would evolve. If Barca learns that someone like Fabian Ruiz is close to sign with us then there's every chance they would lose their cool and give their go ahead. They can't afford keeping De Jong

 

[NicolaSacco]

Why can't Ruiz be the cover or a squad option if we get De Jong too. No harm in having multiple options.

I agree, I was replying to what the poster seemed to be suggesting, about it being an either/or scenario. I think he’d improve Utd, and for that matter he’d improve most clubs in Europe.

 

[devilish]

Well it’s not.

De Jong doesn’t need to perform or even play, for the next 4 years Barça must pay him a minimum 17 million per season.

Yet Laporta is pushing De Jong to take a paycut. That doesn't make sense

 

[Bulldog United]

If that is true, then FDJ, his agent and lawyers have been absolutely dumb or properly hoodwinked to agree to something like that. Its basically like saying your current salary will be paid to you in the future but is contingent on your future "performance".

The changes were agreed with the player's contracts agency in London "Kane Bros. representing..." so it's unlikely to be true. Harry Kane's brother drives a hard bargain.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My guess would be somewhere between 10 and 15 million Euro. So he gets between 2 to 7 million Euro more if he stays. Plus he can stay and play at his dream club.

And Barça can’t afford the 17m /year, so we’re back to the start of the roundabout again.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yet Laporta is pushing De Jong to take a paycut. That doesn't make sense

Of course it makes sense, they can’t afford to pay him a minimum 17m a year for the next 4 seasons.

Laporta can beg all he likes, De Jong doesn’t need to do anything, and he and his agent have made pretty clear they have no intention of any renegotiation.

 

[glazed]

He’s standing firm with them, as he’s in the strongest position, they either pay him off, or he stays, on wages they cannot afford.

But if they pay him off to go or he stays, then he gets the deferred money (DM) either way. It's only if he goes without a payoff that Barca keep the DM. But if the new contract really has been structured in such a way that getting rid of him saves Barca paying the DM then he's been badly advised. Surely any basically competent lawyer would have inserted a clause that he would recoup the money in the event of a transfer. It would be beyond incompetent to do otherwise.

 

[B. Munich]

Well you can obviously, if an employee agrees to cut his wage by 17 million over two years to help you out in your hour of need and after those two years you try to stiff him, yes you can call the employee naive as feck, but it’s a beyond fecking scummy way to treat an employee who sacrificed that much to help the club.

And, you’re still ignoring that De Jong holds all the cards still here, he can just stay and get paid a shit load, as he is due.

Again it's his agent who f***ed up. He needs to take the blame.

Yeah he can stay and do a Gareth Bale at Madrid. Will be a lose lose for both, Barcelona and him. His career will be in tatters afterwards.

 

[Lash]

Exactly this.

He continues to ignore that FDJ has 4 years to run on his deal, and with big wages. He has every right to simply stay and completely feck up this new wage structure and screw up Laporta’s possibilities of registering new players.

Yeah, it's an odd situation and I think we're right to not swoop in to try and settle this dispute from our pocket. As @devilish says, we could try an exact our own pressure with plan B, but I don't know if that's in our thoughts.

 

[Amarsdd]

Well it’s not.

De Jong doesn’t need to perform or even play, for the next 4 years Barça must pay him a minimum 17 million per season even if he plays in the B team.

I don't literally mean performance, hence the " ". I was trying to relate it to a normal salaried job where the future could be your contract being terminated for whatever reason.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Again it's his agent who f***ed up. He needs to take the blame.

Yeah he can stay and do a Gareth Bale at Madrid. Will be a lose lose for both, Barcelona and him. His career will be in tatters afterwards.

Nonsense.

Barca aren’t gonna have a great player in his prime rot who’s a) been loyal as feck to them and b) is their highest earner, just to make a point.

Absolute tosh.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't literally mean performance, hence the " ". I was trying to relate it to a normal salaried job where the future could be your contract being terminated for whatever reason.

It can’t be terminated though, De Jong can do absolutely feck all, just turn up for training and half arse it, yet still get 17m /year minimum for the next four years.

 

[tbtt]

I have hard time understanding the current situation. Were United in talks with Barcelona for weeks without considering how to handle the "deferred" wages? So after reaching a general agreement, they suddenly realized they hadn't talked about who would pay the deferred wage? That's hard to believe.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I have hard time understanding the current situation. Were United in talks with Barcelona for weeks without considering how to handle the "deferred" wages? So after reaching a general agreement, they suddenly realized they hadn't talked about who would pay the deferred wage? That's hard to believe.

Doesn’t seem that way.

Seems United, Barca and De Jong reached a “general agreement” for the transfer.
However De Jong and Barça are in a dispute about wages owed, Barça likely think they owe nothing (scummy but legally might be true), and De Jong think they owe him 17m.
Until De Jong and Barça can find an agreement, it’s at stalemate.

Right now both Barça and player are calling each others bluff.

 

[Red_toad]

Why can't Ruiz be the cover or a squad option if we get De Jong too. No harm in having multiple options.

Probably as we have a limited budget and Ten Hag isn't interested in him I'd say.

 

[Amarsdd]

It can’t be terminated though, De Jong can do absolutely feck all, just turn up for training and half arse it, yet still get 17m /year minimum.

Again, I trying to relate it to a normal job, not directly FDJ! but then again, what if FDJ wants to leave Barca, so that would mean giving up his salary for the time he's already served.

 

[B. Munich]

This story doesn't really hold water though as laporta has come out and said players need to accept the new salary limits.

So if he has signed that deal, Barcelona have destroyed their salary limit for the remainder of that contract if they don't sell him. I dont see why United would bail FDJ or Barca out from their poor decisions. A compromise should be made, but it appears FDJ wants what he signed up for and Barca don't want to pay what they promised. Neither can happen in reality.

The contracts were signed under Laporta's predecessor.
Laporta can't force players to accept his salary cap. He can try to sell these players but in the case of FdJ the player would lose the claim on the "deferred" money.
It's just a very messy situation FdJ is in.

 

[worldinmotion66]

Which would mean FdJ will lose his outstanding 17 million Euro.

According to Barcelona posters here FdJ signed a new contract starting the upcoming season. Over the time of this contract he will be paid his new salary and the "deferred" 17 million Euro.
If he decides to leave before the contract even starts, h most likely will wave his claim for the 17 million Euro.
To expect Barcelona to pay him the outstanding money anyway, e.g. for moral reasons, is totally unrealistic. Without a legally binding obligation Barcelona won't pay a dime.
Of course United could offer him to cover for the loss and pay FdJ a 17 million Euro joining bonus. I don't see any other way this is going to happen.

If it's in his contract that moving clubs would result in his money owed being wiped, then I'd be very surprised first and foremost. But if it is true then he and his lawyers are absolute idiots and I have zero sympathy for him. If he doesn't want to leave because of that, then that's fair enough and it's barca's problem to sort out. If we believe it can't be rectified, I think we move on. I'd be very disappointed if we pay him extra because of failures on the part of his agent/lawyers, and the negligence of Barcelona in the first place. That club is a shambles and deserves where it's heading.

 

[ForeverRed1]

If we were to have a vote, who says he stays at Barca or comes to us? I can’t work this out

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

.
It's just a very messy situation FdJ is in.

It’s a very messy situation Barça are in too.

 

[pocco]

It’s true, been repeated loads and it’s exactly why United have a chance to get him. Although it’s incorrect he signed a new deal for this season, by all reports he signed that mid Covid to help out Barça, it included enormous wage drops for year 1 and 2, and huge increases for years 3-6 to make up for the losses in year 1 & 2.

He’s standing firm with them, as he’s in the strongest position, they either pay him off, or he stays, on wages they cannot afford.

So it's incorrect?

 

[Lash]

The contracts were signed under Laporta's predecessor.
Laporta can't force players to accept his salary cap. He can try to sell these players but in the case of FdJ the player would lose the claim on the "deferred" money.
It's just a very messy situation FdJ is in.

He can't sell someone with a massive future contractual obligation and say, forget about it. It's a very messy situation for Laporta as well, this is hardly a FdJ situation either, he didn't even want to leave to begin with.

 

[Adnan]

Think Haníbal and Garner might have something to say about this year under ten Hag.

It'll be interesting to see what ten Hag decides to do with Hannibal. He's still in development but requires minutes to develop further and hopefully fulfil the potential I believe he has. He's a player with high level touch and technique along with the ability to carry the ball. Physically he's also showing a high level where his agility and engine to get around the pitch is also impressive for a youngster.

 

[Shakesy]

If we were to have a vote, who says he stays at Barca or comes to us? I can’t work this out

70-30 I'd say