Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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Seven Seas Sardines said:
So many gullible kids taking clickbait from someone named 'Ryan Walker' as gospel. :wenger:

Man's so fake the source is cited everywhere as 'DailyMail'..
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Would make sense if you actually knew what I was referring to
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Nar, they last received 166m in 2020/21 so that’s 1.035 bn over 25 years.
Add the average inflation rate of 1.98% and cumulative inflation of 47.89% and well, it’s a fecking terrible deal.
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You have that the complete wrong way around. You don't add inflation, you discount it.

Discounted cash flows take into account inflation and the time value of having the money in hand TODAY. That's why you get 500-600M for that future revenue stream, not 2bn.

Why on earth would you pay 2bn today to receive 1bn over 25 years? It's mental.

Your logic is it won't be 1bn but more because... well, inflation. Inflation is a risk here, you know it 100% depreciates the money but you don't know how much you will be able to pass on to those buying your rights (and/or these to final consumers).

That's why you pay less today for what over time will add up to more, you are paying the cost of having the capital in hand here and now.
 
devilish said:
Let's put things in perspective. This deal had been dragging for months. Barca had placed him on sale and they had hinted that they'll ready to play him as a reserve CB. Despite all that De Jong had made it clear that he prefers Barca to us.

Despite all that you're cool with us making De Jong the 2nd highest paid player at United not because he deserve it but simply to pay him off the deferred salary he earned at Barcelona. Can you imagine how that would sound inside our dressing room? We're telling the likes of Bruno to sit down and take a lesser salary because De Jong deserve better for his work with a rival club. Let that sink in.

Not to forget that we're not the desperate party here. Barcelona are the ones who can't register players unless they sort the De Jong mess. Yet we will end up paying their bills in the end. This is a level of incompetence not even the Woodward-Judge administration had ever reached.
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Not sure the Bruno stuff fits in this conversation. Variances in pay within a football team is the norm as is how much of a transfer fee the player commands. If Bruno wants to get paid more that's his negotiation to be had. He's not getting paid less because another player comes in.

It's a different story if United as a club decides to define salary caps as a standard by which we sign players. That's a whole different conversation and should be had irrespective of the FDJ negotiations.

It may be helpful to understand my opinion by taking a step back:
If it became clear that FDJ was not a viable option either because of the fee or dispute around his owed pay, United should have pulled out earlier on. There has been zero new developments in the last two months except for Barca signing more players.

The fact that we persisted on this particular deal signals the importance of the player to ETH and belief that he will come if the money is sorted.

As much as I disapprove of Barcelona's behavior here and am loath letting them get away with it, I would rather take care of our clubs needs first. At this stage, we would lose more by not spending an extra £17M and signing him (if that is possible). It very well could be the difference between top 4 and trophies and not. And it could mean missing him in a different window should another suitor come. (most posters seem to think the likes of Sangare, Ruiz, and Neves are trash in comparison)

Still all of that is a moot point. If ETH sanctions paying all of that for FDJ then it's on him to get the best out of him and make the squad comfortable with the decision.
 
devilish said:
Let's put things in perspective. This deal had been dragging for months. Barca had placed him on sale and they had hinted that they'll ready to play him as a reserve CB. Despite all that De Jong had made it clear that he prefers Barca to us.

Despite all that you're cool with us making De Jong the 2nd highest paid player at United not because he deserve it but simply to pay him off the deferred salary he earned at Barcelona. Can you imagine how that would sound inside our dressing room? We're telling the likes of Bruno to sit down and take a lesser salary because De Jong deserve better for his work with a rival club. Let that sink in.

Not to forget that we're not the desperate party here. Barcelona are the ones who can't register players unless they sort the De Jong mess. Yet we will end up paying their bills in the end. This is a level of incompetence not even the Woodward-Judge administration had ever reached.
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With you on this one. I think we all understand the argument that we need to back ETH and this is his key player. Given the purported amount of the fee agreed, we have been more than fair with Barca. If we need to subsidise some of the deferred wages (effectively adding onto the transfer fee), I’m still good. But to make him the highest or second highest paid when he doesn’t really want to join us will disrupt the dressing room which is just beginning to heal its rifts. Then we have Rolando pulling all sort of crap which clearly won’t be settled before the season starts.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Adobe-20220801-124627.jpg
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:lol:

Plant0x84 said:
It’s only wafer thin! A Bernardo Sliva, rather than Bernardo Silva.
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:lol:
 
Lecland07 said:
People are thinking about this wrong: the cash flow is more of a concern. They are essentially going to be losing €70m in cash every year from this point: €35m towards the liability of the levers and €35m from deducted revenue. It will be more like a €1.75bn loss in cash over 25 years that they will have to deal with.

I'm not sure you can split the decision of getting the levers from how they are used, either. They have decided to increase their annual wages by about €40m this summer.

This summer could be costing them €110m in annual cash flows from wages and the levers alone. And that is ignoring the payments they need to make on the transfer fees.

The €100m they got from Barca studios won't even offset one season of cash flow loss. They are in a tough position for the future.
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Aye, I said the deals aren't bad, it doesn't mean it's necessarily sustainable. They obviously can't keep doing this every Summer.
 
Redcy said:
We can't but if it was as simple he was legally owed it I doubt there would be even this level of discussion. It seems more likely he is legally owed nothing, afaik we have some documentation that shows that instead of deferring his wages he actually signed a new contract. Instead of being paid

5 years at 16 million

he restructured it so:

year 1 and 2 = 8m

year 3 = 20m

year 4 = 22m

year 5 = 22m

Therefore Barca claim that if he leaves now he is owed nothing, he is just expecting to get paid more later. It seems that there may be no protection for him if he leaves early, which may not have been a worry for him in the past, as he never wanted to leave. However when Barca are trying to get rid or force him to take a loss of 40-50m he is screwed. He has no claim against them in this case. So his only hope is that he holds on and waits to see if they play chicken first when they might be stuck with him and he has to either take a 50% paycut or he plays as bit part CB.
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Your numbers do make sense.
 
Someone should do a Timeline compilation of this thread for posterity's sake, we went from interminable discussions about his best position and weather comparisons to Emm butterflies and consumption of feces ???

Truly a journey worthy of Iliad , homer would be proud.

Can't wait to see what's next.
 
Compton22 said:
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Haha thats just kicking de Jong when he's down really isn't it?
Not only are they saying he's not wanted or needed, now they're telling him to get out so they can sign their new shiny toy. But hey, this is his dream club, they could never do anything bad to him right? Riiiight?
 
devilish said:
Let's put things in perspective. This deal had been dragging for months. Barca had placed him on sale and they had hinted that they'll ready to play him as a reserve CB. Despite all that De Jong had made it clear that he prefers Barca to us.

Despite all that you're cool with us making De Jong the 2nd highest paid player at United not because he deserve it but simply to pay him off the deferred salary he earned at Barcelona. Can you imagine how that would sound inside our dressing room? We're telling the likes of Bruno to sit down and take a lesser salary because De Jong deserve better for his work with a rival club. Let that sink in.

Not to forget that we're not the desperate party here. Barcelona are the ones who can't register players unless they sort the De Jong mess. Yet we will end up paying their bills in the end. This is a level of incompetence not even the Woodward-Judge administration had ever reached.
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It seems like Barca will foot the bill to some extent (given the talk about the 7m payout earlier).

Given the nature of the transfer I think it'll be a compromise by everyone involved (De Jong forgoes a part of his deferred wages, Barca foot a significant bill and we throw in a few million over the duration of the contract)
 
Brownie85 said:
Haha thats just kicking de Jong when he's down really isn't it?
Not only are they saying he's not wanted or needed, now they're telling him to get out so they can sign their new shiny toy. But hey, this is his dream club, they could never do anything bad to him right? Riiiight?
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He will still love them with all his heart though despite being treated like total shite
 
Teja said:
It seems like Barca will foot the bill to some extent (given the talk about the 7m payout earlier).

Given the nature of the transfer I think it'll be a compromise by everyone involved (De Jong forgoes a part of his deferred wages, Barca foot a significant bill and we throw in a few million over the duration of the contract)
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As said I find this idea of paying a player for the services rendered at another club as disgusting and quite frankly dangerous as well. I hope that it won't set a precedent were teams will sign players because they offered ridiculous contracts only to expect prospective buyers to foot the bill for that
 
Esquire said:
With you on this one. I think we all understand the argument that we need to back ETH and this is his key player. Given the purported amount of the fee agreed, we have been more than fair with Barca. If we need to subsidise some of the deferred wages (effectively adding onto the transfer fee), I’m still good. But to make him the highest or second highest paid when he doesn’t really want to join us will disrupt the dressing room which is just beginning to heal its rifts. Then we have Rolando pulling all sort of crap which clearly won’t be settled before the season starts.
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I am all out in backing the manager but we also need to admit that managers aren't infallible either. They might commit mistakes and sometimes they need to be stopped as well.
 
So the third lever means that they can afford to pay Frenkie what he’s owed. Lovely.

fecking levers
 
Some posters taking it for granted that he doesn’t want to come here simply because he hasn’t announced publicly that he does.

Posters believing that ETH is dumb enough to keep after FDJ, despite knowing that he will refuse to come.

Some posters acting like we can somehow be conned into paying more than we think he is worth to us.

Some posters saying “he’s ours, done dealio.”

The canals thing was great.

Funny thread. Hope we get this boy. He looks like a reasonably calm, tidy central midfielder who can pick a pass (there’s the bar).
 
devilish said:
As said I find this idea of paying a player for the services rendered at another club as disgusting and quite frankly dangerous as well. I hope that it won't set a precedent were teams will sign players because they offered ridiculous contracts only to expect prospective buyers to foot the bill for that
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Nah, European clubs won't start doing that systematically because Manchester United only have the bandwidth and budget for one pet peeve per summer.
 
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