Frenkie De Jong | Performances

This guy is just a proper publicity for what is Netherlands football in people mind.

Pirlo absolutely raved about him and Griezmann playing against him (and one of the best forwards in term of pressing) said he couldn't do a thing about him when he played against them.

More than his technical abilities, it's his positional awarness and reading of the game (on offense as on defense). The type of midfielder, that would show his quality no matter in what setup or tactics he plays.

I definitely think at Barcelona, he will be an absolute standout player.
 
RooneyLegend said:
His passing between the lines is magnificent. He's very incisive in that sense, what he doesn't isn't is expansive like Neves.

Pretty much the point. To expect a holding mid to carve open the opposition is nothing short of crazy. I've genuinely seen very few players who can do that. Even Verratti doesnt, neither does Busquets and they are the best around.
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Verratti is more incisive, quicker on the ball, has got better passing range and spatial awareness.

Frenkie is good but most of the times, his passes are backward, sideways and that's not to mention the fact that he takes long before making a decision even while making these sideways/backward passes. Another is his spatial awareness, he often makes the wrong decision when progressing the play because even when a team mate is available in a open space in front of him, you would see him pick out the one in a crowded space and that sometimes tends to makes the move breaks down. His ability to switch play isn't good too. In fact, I find Rabiot as a better holding midfielder. It's a shame he doesn't like playing as one. Rabiot hasn't got the passing range to switch play also but his spatial awareness is actually good and this is coming from a person who have been complaining about Rabiot's tendency to dwell on the ball but he is actually quicker than Frenkie's who's even worst in this regard.

A midfield of Deph, Rice and Barkley who ain't playmakers and ceded possession nor offered great positional play isn't difficult to run against. Maybe Rice should have been deployed in a 2-man midfield because he's been poor as a lone holding midfielder for England, even in the previous match before Netherland match. Wink should have played in his place. That's just by the way.

Frenkie's good on the ball and a good recycler but a playmaker he's not. A playmaker leaves space in his wake either with his quick speed of thought, spatial awareness, and techniques apart from his movement and positional play. I don't see that with Frenkie.
 
You've written walls of text before that Frenkie isn't any good, the only thing I'm missing this time is the stuff about Van der Beek being so much better than Frenkie. :lol:
 
De Jong is a good player, but he is only outstanding in one thing: Holding the ball in deep zones (DM). Even at Ajax de Ligt, Tadic, van de beek and Zyiech were more important. I think, he is hyped, because people see one outstanding quality and get misleaded about his quality in its entirety.
 
Gate99 said:
You've written walls of text before that Frenkie isn't any good, the only thing I'm missing this time is the stuff about Van der Beek being so much better than Frenkie. :lol:
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I said Frenkie isn't a playmaker and I have never been impressed by him as one. However, I have opined many times that he's a good recycler.

Van de Beek is actually a playmaker when he's deployed as one with lots of touches on the ball.
 
bosnian_red said:
You cant have a midfield full of Xavis or a midfield full of iniestas. Modric a bit different as he's excelled or shown he's competent at all 3 roles, but neither here nor there. De Jong is pretty much the perfect Barca player to be the holding midfielder who is a deep lying playmaker. Excellent passing, comfortable on the ball and great under pressure, and knows how to progress it up the field brilliantly. He's not the one to be the #10 because that's just not his role to do that regularly, though he'll offer it on occasion.

Hes not going to solve Barcas midfield solely on his own, but hes a future star for sure and the best signing theyve made in ages.
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But they've got Busquets for that role, and I don't think that they've paid some serious dollars to rotate him with Busquest, he'll start next to him, at least for the time being, just like Xaviesta used to do. But he won't offer the same penetration -which is what their midfield lacks- and puts more burden on Messi.
 
Kaglish10 said:
I said Frenkie isn't a playmaker and I have never been impressed by him as one. However, I have opined many times that he's a good recycler.

Van de Beek is actually a playmaker when he's deployed as one with lots of touches on the ball.
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De Jong is definately more of a playmaker than Van de Beek ffs.
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
De Jong is definately more of a playmaker than Van de Beek ffs.
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How many times have you seen Van de Beek deployed as one? let's start from that.

Anyway, Van de Beek's performance in the game he's been deployed as a no 6/got more on the ball states otherwise. He's got better passing range hence can switch play, quicker speed of thought, vision and his movement looks great.

I saw him play with my very own eyes in the final against us, Standard Liege etc and the stats on squawka and whoscored backed it up in other matches he's played as one albeit few, for example the Groningen match, Go ahead eagles, even against PSV two seasons ago. The Ajax fans praised him for his performance but since Erik Ten Hag reign, he's been moved around the no 10 and 8 role (mostly no 10 these days) hence why I asked you if you have seen him play as one because he's a no 10 these days.
 
please stop this stupid discussion. There's no argument that can change Kaglish' mind. No matter how wrong he is. No matter how many peole tell him.

@Kaglish10; you are absolutely right.

Move on.
 
Sjaakmeoff said:
please stop this stupid discussion. There's no argument that can change Kaglish' mind. No matter how wrong he is. No matter how many peole tell him.

@Kaglish10; you are absolutely right.

Move on.
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If Frenkie looks like a playmaker, I won't have problem saying he's one. For example, you won't see me arguing about Verratti, Eriksen, Pjanic etc.

Some are angry because I don't fall into their Frenkie kind of imagination. As a matter of fact, I dislike midfielders who hoard the ball a lot. We all saw how Eriksen made Frenkie look like a pub player in the midfield as soon as he slotted into the central midfield in the second half for Spurs.
 
MVBDX said:
But they've got Busquets for that role, and I don't think that they've paid some serious dollars to rotate him with Busquest, he'll start next to him, at least for the time being, just like Xaviesta used to do. But he won't offer the same penetration -which is what their midfield lacks- and puts more burden on Messi.
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Theyll likely rotate the 5 or rakitic, busquets de Jong, Arthur and vidal. Busquets is well on a decline though so he's going to need phasing out soon. Its essentially just starting that process earler with De Jong there for longer.
 
MVBDX said:
But they've got Busquets for that role, and I don't think that they've paid some serious dollars to rotate him with Busquest, he'll start next to him, at least for the time being, just like Xaviesta used to do. But he won't offer the same penetration -which is what their midfield lacks- and puts more burden on Messi.
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No, his lack of penetration and incisive passes(though in truth he was constantly picking out the forwards between the lines in good positions and open, but fine) was down to how his team played. I remember him against France, he looked a lot more Pirlo than Busquets in that game

His only flaw is that he doesn't switch play enough, though how much of that is lack of ability or just habit from playing for Ajax(who generally didn't switch play as a rule) is hard to say
 
MVBDX said:
But he won't offer the same penetration -which is what their midfield lacks- and puts more burden on Messi
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He offers a lot of penetration, but, unlike most midfielders, he does so more with his runs than with his passing.
 
Kaglish10 said:
How many times have you seen Van de Beek deployed as one? let's start from that.

Anyway, Van de Beek's performance in the game he's been deployed as a no 6/got more on the ball states otherwise. He's got better passing range hence can switch play, quicker speed of thought, vision and his movement looks great.

I saw him play with my very own eyes in the final against us, Standard Liege etc and the stats on squawka and whoscored backed it up in other matches he's played as one albeit few, for example the Groningen match, Go ahead eagles, even against PSV two seasons ago. The Ajax fans praised him for his performance but since Erik Ten Hag reign, he's been moved around the no 10 and 8 role (mostly no 10 these days) hence why I asked you if you have seen him play as one because he's a no 10 these days.
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He's being deployed there because that is his best position. You want him bursting into the box and score goals. Thats his quality. He's not a playmaker. Not saying his passing is particulary bad or something. De Jong's vision is miles above, passing also but mainly de Jong's reading of the game makes him the far better playmaker. It's not even close. Nobody I ever spoke to about football in the Netherlands thinks van Beek is a better playmaker. It's not even a discussion.
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
He's being deployed there because that is his best position. You want him bursting into the box and score goals. Thats his quality. He's not a playmaker. Not saying his passing is particulary bad or something. De Jong's vision is miles above, passing also but mainly de Jong's reading of the game makes him the far better playmaker. It's not even close. Nobody I ever spoke to about football in the Netherlands thinks van Beek is a better playmaker. It's not even a discussion.
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That's the problem I have. Van de Beek regardless of his goal scoring attributes is at his best as a central midfielder. I find it a problem when people use a player's talent against him.

It's like saying Eriksen should play on the wing to accommodate Alli in the central like Pochettino have been deploying him so far until recently and even at that, he's always back to the wing everytime Alli is in the lineup such as the match against Ajax and in the CL final.. Same happened with Nani while he was here. He was at his best as a right winger but because he could play on the left compared to the one footed Valencia, he was moved to the left hence was often inconsistent. If Alli was still scoring enough goals and making up good no of assist, many would have said he was better than Eriksen eventhough Eriksen looked twice the player in the midfield.

Some Dutch fans are equating Van de Beek to a no 10 role because it's the role he's been playing for a while now however he's looked twice the player in the central midfield.

This was him in the central midfield either as a no 6 or 8 when he was just 19-20yrs old before Erik Ten Hag moved him up because of his goal scoring attributes and movement.

 
My God not again with this Van der Beek stuff. Dude was good in Dawson's Creek, but he's been overrated since.

On a serious note, he showed what his strength on the field is in the space of 3 minutes after being subbed on yesterday. Dangerously penetrating the penalty area and nearly scoring. That's the player he is, that's what he is used for and that's what he is good at. If you think he's a playmaker, because he played there a few months when he was a toddler that's great. You're wrong. And that's fine.
 
KirkDuyt said:
My God not again with this Van der Beek stuff. Dude was good in Dawson's Creek, but he's been overrated since.

On a serious note, he showed what his strength on the field is in the space of 3 minutes after being subbed on yesterday. Dangerously penetrating the penalty area and nearly scoring. That's the player he is, that's what he is used for and that's what he is good at. If you think he's a playmaker, because he played there a few months when he was a toddler that's great. You're wrong. And that's fine.
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His strength lies in the midfield, not as no 10. Erik Ten Hag said he's a central midfielder.

Regardless of how Eriksen looks good on the wing or even as a no 10, his strength lies in the midfield.

Van de Beek wasn't a toddler but was good enough to have been promoted into the first team at a young age and was giving Schone a run for his money in the midfield under Bosz. Why change his role then? Why not allow him to continue to develop as a central midfielder? Even Havertz and Brandt who are just no 10 always have many touches in the midfield under Bosz compared to the paltry touches Van de Beek always have under Ten Hag.
 
Kaglish10 said:
His strength lies in the midfield, not as no 10.Erik Ten Hag said he's a central midfielder.

Regardless of how Eriksen looks good on the wing or even as a no 10, his strength lies in the midfield.

Van de Beek wasn't a toddler but was good enough to have been promoted into the first team at a young age and was giving Schone a run for his money in the midfield under Bosz. Why change his role then? Even Havertz and Brandt who are just no 10 always have many touches in the midfield under Bosz compared to the paltry touches Van de Beek always have under Ten Hag.
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He's also not a classical 10. He's a midfielder with good movement, iron lungs and a strong presence in the opposition box. The reason why he's switched around a lot is because he doesn't really fit in to one single role. He lacks the vision and technique for a real 10, he lacks the play making ability of a 6 and he lacks the defensive qualities to be a real box to box player. He's quite good at all those things, but mostly as an attacking presence. It's also why I think he won't make it at a top club.

He is obviously better in midfield than Schöne, but how that is a plaudit to anyone is beyond me. They bought Schöne as a good benchplayer from NEC. He surprised everyone by actually doing as well as he did.
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's also not a classical 10. He's a midfielder with good movement, iron lungs and a strong presence in the opposition box. The reason why he's switched around a lot is because he doesn't really fit in to one single role. He lacks the vision and technique for a real 10, he lacks the play making ability of a 6 and he lacks the defensive qualities to be a real box to box player. He's quite good at all those things, but mostly as an attacking presence. It's also why I think he won't make it at a top club.

He is obviously better in midfield than Schöne, but how that is a plaudit to anyone is beyond me. They bought Schöne as a good benchplayer from NEC. He surprised everyone by actually doing as well as he did.
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Seems like an inferior version of pogba.
 
MJJ said:
Seems like an inferior version of pogba.
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Talent wise Pogba can do everything. So in a way, I suppose yes, Vd Beek can do everything above average where Pogba excells in everything.
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's also not a classical 10. He's a midfielder with good movement, iron lungs and a strong presence in the opposition box. The reason why he's switched around a lot is because he doesn't really fit in to one single role. He lacks the vision and technique for a real 10, he lacks the play making ability of a 6 and he lacks the defensive qualities to be a real box to box player. He's quite good at all those things, but mostly as an attacking presence. It's also why I think he won't make it at a top club.

He is obviously better in midfield than Schöne, but how that is a plaudit to anyone is beyond me. They bought Schöne as a good benchplayer from NEC. He surprised everyone by actually doing as well as he did.
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I guess Modric and Pirlo were shite players because they can't play as no 10. Heck, Frenkie should have the platform, let see how he would look, considering someone who's been looking shite as a no 8.

Funny enough Van de Beek hasn't even been playing as a no 10 but a SS (I don't know if it's due to the coach or his midfield's poor vision to often pick him out and involve him considering the sideways passers Ajax have got in the midfield as they are contended to pass to the defence, foraying fullbacks, wingers.

That said. he lacks the nimbleness of a no 10 hence why he can't play the role, same way Modric and Pirlo looked horrible as no 10. However, his vision and passing range are superb. The video above attest to that.
 
Kaglish10 said:
I guess Modric and Pirlo were shite players because they can't play as no 10. Heck, Frenkie should have the platform, let see how he would look, considering someone who's been looking shite as a no 8.

Funny enough Van de Beek hasn't even been playing as a no 10 but a SS (I don't know if it's due to the coach or his midfield's poor vision to often pick him out and involve him considering the sideways passers Ajax have got in the midfield as they are contended to pass to the defence, foraying fullbacks, wingers.

That said. he lacks the nimbleness of a no 10 hence why he can't play the role, same way Modric and Pirlo looked horrible as no 10. However, his vision and passing range are superb. The video above attest to that.
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Modrić and Pirlo has plenty nimbleness, they lacked the physical attributes really.
 
Kaglish10 said:
I guess Modric and Pirlo were shite players because they can't play as no 10. Heck, Frenkie should have the platform, let see how he would look, considering someone who's been looking shite as a no 8.

Funny enough Van de Beek hasn't even been playing as a no 10 but a SS (I don't know if it's due to the coach or his midfield's poor vision to often pick him out and involve him considering the sideways passers Ajax have got in the midfield as they are contended to pass to the defence, foraying fullbacks, wingers.

That said. he lacks the nimbleness of a no 10 hence why he can't play the role, same way Modric and Pirlo looked horrible as no 10. However, his vision and passing range are superb. The video above attest to that.
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This is honestly on par with "bet you were happy when we sold Japp Stam!" How on God's green Earth did you deduce that from what I said?
 
Righteous Steps said:
Modrić and Pirlo has plenty nimbleness, they lacked the physical attributes really.
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They are agile and physical, so is Van de Beek hence they wouldn't have been able to play in the central midfield in the first place but there's this sort of fluidity accompanied with no 10, for example Ozil at his best.
 
VorZakone said:
How often does he try a defence-splitting pass?
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From what i've seen, wherever there's a good chance for one. He tends to prioritize keeping possession over forcing things. A Guardiola type of player. Xavi was the same btw, though he moved higher up the pitch and so had more chances for those kind of passes. It's what made barcelona and spain so good at quickly regaining possession, and the reason why fabregas could never replace Xavi
 
Kaglish10 said:
Verratti is more incisive, quicker on the ball, has got better passing range and spatial awareness.

Frenkie is good but most of the times, his passes are backward, sideways and that's not to mention the fact that he takes long before making a decision even while making these sideways/backward passes. Another is his spatial awareness, he often makes the wrong decision when progressing the play because even when a team mate is available in a open space in front of him, you would see him pick out the one in a crowded space and that sometimes tends to makes the move breaks down. His ability to switch play isn't good too. In fact, I find Rabiot as a better holding midfielder. It's a shame he doesn't like playing as one. Rabiot hasn't got the passing range to switch play also but his spatial awareness is actually good and this is coming from a person who have been complaining about Rabiot's tendency to dwell on the ball but he is actually quicker than Frenkie's who's even worst in this regard.

A midfield of Deph, Rice and Barkley who ain't playmakers and ceded possession nor offered great positional play isn't difficult to run against. Maybe Rice should have been deployed in a 2-man midfield because he's been poor as a lone holding midfielder for England, even in the previous match before Netherland match. Wink should have played in his place. That's just by the way.

Frenkie's good on the ball and a good recycler but a playmaker he's not. A playmaker leaves space in his wake either with his quick speed of thought, spatial awareness, and techniques apart from his movement and positional play. I don't see that with Frenkie.
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Wait, did you just type that De Jong doesn't have incisive passing? His whole game is using his wonderful dribbling ability to make an angle to play a short forward pass that breaks the lines and takes out opposition midfielders.

Just look at last nights game, how many times he does this. He even refuses easy sideways and backwards passes to wait for the forward pass or carry into the space that allows the forward pass.

 
I really think people are going to be amazed at how quickly he is gonna develop at Barca. Every time he got the chance to play on a higher level he instantly became one of the most important players on the field. You'll see what happens when he starts playing and learning from Busquets, Messi, Rakitic etc. He himself said he isn't expecting to instantly start games and that he needs time to adjust to their game.

Also it baffles me that people like Pirlo, arguably the best DLP ever, say Frenkie is one of the best right now and people here are going...Nah, overrated, much better options available.
 
RussellWilson said:
Wait, did you just type that De Jong doesn't have incisive passing? His whole game is using his wonderful dribbling ability to make an angle to play a short forward pass that breaks the lines and takes out opposition midfielders.

Just look at last nights game, how many times he does this. He even refuses easy sideways and backwards passes to wait for the forward pass or carry into the space that allows the forward pass.

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The video is played at high speed. Try this below without the quick speed deployed in the first clip. The one below is the reality. Note the amount of dilly dallying on the ball, the amount of sideways passes, the amount of wrong choice of pass when there are available players in open space, the lack of ability to switch play. In fact, I can count the amount of incisive passing he made on my hand.

 
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People still underrate him because many still don't get his game. I know this sounds condescending, but it was the same with Busquets. Some people realized immediately how unique his game was, with most others it took years to reluctantly acknowledge the brilliance.

He plays the game like he has a fraction of second advantage and a different perspective to everyone else on the pitch. That's why he's so comfortable at holding the ball and why he makes apparently simple yet unexpected passes all the time. He doesn't quite have the elegance and calmness of Busquets, but he is more athletic, mobile and incisive in passing.

Players like Xavi and Modric were in their ways as good at retaining, organizing and playmaking. Busquets and De Jong maybe lack the ability to be midfield generals in their mould, as they lack superior ball carrying skills or agility. But they're natural at being the step ahead like no one else.
 
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Kaglish10 said:
The video is played at high speed. Try this below without the quick speed deployed in the first clip. The one below is the reality. Note the amount of dilly dallying on the ball, the amount of sideways passes, the amount of wrong choice of pass when there are available players in open space, the lack of ability to switch play.
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This isn't reality, this is way slower than normal
 
future2future said:
I really think people are going to be amazed at how quickly he is gonna develop at Barca. Every time he got the chance to play on a higher level he instantly became one of the most important players on the field. You'll see what happens when he starts playing and learning from Busquets, Messi, Rakitic etc. He himself said he isn't expecting to instantly start games and that he needs time to adjust to their game.

Also it baffles me that people like Pirlo, arguably the best DLP ever, say Frenkie is one of the best right now and people here are going...Nah, overrated, much better options available.
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It's mostly just Kaglish, who is Donny's mum and hates Frenkie.
 
Kaglish10 said:
The video is played at high speed. Try this below without the quick speed deployed in the first clip. The one below is the reality. Note the amount of dilly dallying on the ball, the amount of sideways passes, the amount of wrong choice of pass when there are available players in open space, the lack of ability to switch play.

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Well the first video is cut down for twitter. The full video is no different, he's still playing forward passes breaking the lines. He ran the game and controlled the tempo throughout. He's a deep lying playmaker in the mould of busquets. Doesn't have the tactical awareness yet to play deep on his own and needs to develop more understanding of when and where to use his dribbling but that will come with time just like most midfielders mature more slowly.
 
Gate99 said:
It's mostly just Kaglish, who is Donny's mum and hates Frenkie.
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I don't hate Frenkie but find it funny when people claims he's a playmaker when he's not. In fact, I can count the amount of incisive passes he made which was few when compared to the lots of passes he made in the match.

For example, you don't see me argue about Busquet. Why? Because you hardly see people equate him to a playmaker.
 
RussellWilson said:
Well the first video is cut down for twitter. The full video is no different, he's still playing forward passes breaking the lines. He ran the game and controlled the tempo throughout. He's a deep lying playmaker in the mould of busquets. Doesn't have the tactical awareness yet to play deep on his own and needs to develop more understanding of when and where to use his dribbling but that will come with time just like most midfielders mature more slowly.
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Busquet isn't a playmaker though. Busquet is a recycler but capable of switching play unlike Frenkie. Hence, Frenkie still has a lot to learn from Busquet but with time, he could become as good as Busquet.

That said, England had no playmaker in the midfield. The midfield was pretty horrible.
 
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