Frenkie De Jong | Performances

Iv not seen angel play all that much - what would he position be & how deep does he play?
95% of the time he's an attacker as a #10 or a wide player like Mata

The other 5% when he's with the u19s and Nicky Butt, he plays as a normal midfielder. Butt has stated that he sees Angel as that kind of midfielder more so than an attacker, but I don't know how the rest of the coaching staff see him. Otherwise, why wouldn't they play him in that position for the u23s? Also I just remembered that at an indoor tournament he played as GK (when in possession, not defending) because the gk is the deepest lying player. The gk position was a revolving position sort of like how Hockey players sub in and out. Can't remember if Butt was in charge then too, but I think it hints at how United see him or how they plan to develop him.
 
95% of the time he's an attacker as a #10 or a wide player like Mata

The other 5% when he's with the u19s and Nicky Butt, he plays as a normal midfielder. Butt has stated that he sees Angel as that kind of midfielder more so than an attacker, but I don't know how the rest of the coaching staff see him. Otherwise, why wouldn't they play him in that position for the u23s? Also I just remembered that at an indoor tournament he played as GK (when in possession, not defending) because the gk is the deepest lying player. The gk position was a revolving position sort of like how Hockey players sub in and out. Can't remember if Butt was in charge then too, but I think it hints at how United see him or how they plan to develop him.

A big problem with playing Angel in De Jong's role currently is his physicality - he's very small, smaller even that Verrati.
 
He's so good. Barcelona have the two best young midfielders in the world in him and Arthur.
 
A big problem with playing Angel in De Jong's role currently is his physicality - he's very small, smaller even that Verrati.
Angel rides tackles really well because of his low center of gravity. I believe Maradona was the same height as he. De Jong's role helps him more on the defensive side and winning aerial duels. In terms of passing, faking players, etc... I think Angel is fine. If there's anything wrong with Angel's physical game while he's in possession it's that he has a tendency to fall to the ground on purpose to win fouls. I believe the last u19 match was a good example of that. 99% of the time he actually does win fouls, but is made to look silly 1% of the time when it's clear the foul wasn't bad.
 
When I see this, it reaffirms my view that the only player in our youth setup that can replicate that skill is Angel Gomes and it makes me want him to turned into a midfielder all the more.



If I remember correctly, that pass went to no one. As a central midfielder, especially one who is expected to play deep, I’d be happier if he can pass with precision and good weight than being able to drop a shoulder.
 
If I remember correctly, that pass went to no one. As a central midfielder, especially one who is expected to play deep, I’d be happier if he can pass with precision and good weight than being able to drop a shoulder.

His passing game wasn't exactly brilliant tonight contrary to what you'd expect, partly because the Germans played it very smart and some teammates up front lacked any form of anticipation.

He showed great combativeness though which was really good to see, made one nice last ditch sliding recovery after giving the ball away with a poor pass early on. Loads of good tackles and clever agressiveness. Came to live in the second half, and all things considered I felt he was Holland's best midfielder.
 
If I remember correctly, that pass went to no one. As a central midfielder, especially one who is expected to play deep, I’d be happier if he can pass with precision and good weight than being able to drop a shoulder.

His passing game wasn't exactly brilliant tonight contrary to what you'd expect, partly because the Germans played it very smart and some teammates up front lacked any form of anticipation.

He showed great combativeness though which was really good to see, made one nice last ditch sliding recovery after giving the ball away with a poor pass early on. Loads of good tackles and clever agressiveness. Came to live in the second half, and all things considered I felt he was Holland's best midfielder.

his short passing and distribution is very good, as is his forward passing between the lines, but his through ball just really isn't anything to write home about
 
The game against Germany was a bit strange, it was tactically almost a direct copy of our last game against them, but this time they took their chances better than we did and had more speed and determination. Löw did the exact same thing again, not surprising, all managers do it, identify the strongest part of the opposing team and try to keep that out of the game, and again he only talked about De Jong, and in the first half they did a good job of trying to keep him out of the picture by blocking the passes lines to him, putting immediate pressure on him if he got the ball, and blocking the passing lines from him. Then Koeman did the exact same thing again at half time (he also did it once against France), which is to pull Frenkie back further to defense and roam there. Then the players with the instructions previously mentioned don't know what to do and end up half-assedly following him, giving both Frenkie the space to do his thing and shine, but more importantly leaving space on the midfield, and the Dutch won the midfield battle in the second half. Löw and Koeman did exactly the same things right again and the same things wrong again.
 
Angel rides tackles really well because of his low center of gravity. I believe Maradona was the same height as he. De Jong's role helps him more on the defensive side and winning aerial duels. In terms of passing, faking players, etc... I think Angel is fine. If there's anything wrong with Angel's physical game while he's in possession it's that he has a tendency to fall to the ground on purpose to win fouls. I believe the last u19 match was a good example of that. 99% of the time he actually does win fouls, but is made to look silly 1% of the time when it's clear the foul wasn't bad.

Really dont know why people keep using the best players in the world as proof Angel will be ok physically...
 
What a fecking player. Completely bossed Juve yesterday.

He’ll be worth every penny for Barca
 
Yep, he is a gem. I saw him a few times at the beginning of the season when the hype wasnt that high. The guy understands and sees football differently, and that is intuitive. He is pure class, i wanted us badly to buy him. People said De Ligt was the more sure thing, they are both as likely to become top players for the next decade as you will see at that age, absolute class. De Jong type of players are just rare nowadays
 
His awareness is top notch and Barcelona should give him time to adapt to their midfield. Definitely a future star, if he isn't already
 
Really dont know why people keep using the best players in the world as proof Angel will be ok physically...
The point is that those players don't rely on their physical ability or don't gain an advantage from their physical ability. It's the other parts of their game that makes them great. So if Angel flops or not, depends on that other part of his game, not his physical ability.


I'm jealous of clubs who have that kind of midfielder because they're hard to produce/buy. Hopefully we can stumble onto one.
 
The point is that those players don't rely on their physical ability or don't gain an advantage from their physical ability. It's the other parts of their game that makes them great. So if Angel flops or not, depends on that other part of his game, not his physical ability.
Angel and Frenkie de Jong aren't similar in physicality though are they? Isn't Angel like 1.60m? Frenkie de Jong is by no means tiny standing 1.81m, he's scrawny of course, but he's just a kid at this point.
 
Angel and Frenkie de Jong aren't similar in physicality though are they? Isn't Angel like 1.60m? Frenkie de Jong is by no means tiny standing 1.81m, he's scrawny of course, but he's just a kid at this point.

They're really not, no. Frenkie was even used as a CB for a while. Imagine using Angel Gomes as a CB :lol:
 
He was crazy good yesterday, he's now so good that the opposition can make any plan and instruct multiple players to put him under pressure, and he not only shrugs it off, he uses it like some kind of troll, yes yes come here pressure me, and then plays into the space left behind, thank you and goodbye. Klopp would hate to play him.
 
Angel and Frenkie de Jong aren't similar in physicality though are they? Isn't Angel like 1.60m? Frenkie de Jong is by no means tiny standing 1.81m, he's scrawny of course, but he's just a kid at this point.
They're not. The point was that Frenkie is a great talent for his technical abilities and his brain.
 
Frenkie was good yesterday but I believe Ajax came into the game the moment they allowed Van De Beek to drop deeper into the midfield while Frenkie dropped close to the central defence like almost as the third central back rather than how De beek was almost playing like a second striker and hardly touched the ball in the first half. Bigs up to the coach for his tactical change.

Personally, I prefer Van De Beek to Frenkie in the no 6 role. I would rather have Van De Beek than Frenkie here.
 
Allegri was actually kinda mad that douglas costa didn't go to ground and take the foul that would have been his second yellow. That about sums it up
 
Frenkie was good yesterday but I believe Ajax came into the game the moment they allowed Van De Beek to drop deeper into the midfield while Frenkie dropped close to the central defence like almost as the third central back rather than how De beek was almost playing like a second striker and hardly touched the ball in the first half. Bigs up to the coach for his tactical change.

Personally, I prefer Van De Beek to Frenkie in the no 6 role. I would rather have Van De Beek than Frenkie here.

That's just silly, Van de Beek is a good player for Ajax but profits as a passenger in a very good side, he's not world class like Frenkie, and would struggle at Everton like Klaassen did.
 
Looks like a bonafide future world beater, I’m so jealous of Barca with how they are run. Given its fan owned every penny is poured back into the club instead of going into someone’s pocket.

Wonder who he’ll displace from their XI? If it’s Rakitic, I hope we put a bid in.
 
That's just silly, Van de Beek is a good player for Ajax but profits as a passenger in a very good side, he's not world class like Frenkie, and would struggle at Everton like Klaassen did.
Don't say that man. I'd say I agree, United should buy Donny for at least 110 million, he's much better than Frenkie.
 
Looks like a bonafide future world beater, I’m so jealous of Barca with how they are run. Given its fan owned every penny is poured back into the club instead of going into someone’s pocket.

Wonder who he’ll displace from their XI? If it’s Rakitic, I hope we put a bid in.

Rakitic has already been linked to you guys I believe. Was a month or two back.
 
Frenkie was good yesterday but I believe Ajax came into the game the moment they allowed Van De Beek to drop deeper into the midfield while Frenkie dropped close to the central defence like almost as the third central back rather than how De beek was almost playing like a second striker and hardly touched the ball in the first half. Bigs up to the coach for his tactical change.

Personally, I prefer Van De Beek to Frenkie in the no 6 role. I would rather have Van De Beek than Frenkie here.

This is de jongs best role in my opinion & I see Ole doing the same thing with Rice at United. Ideally I'd have preferred frankie but we are never as big as Barcelona for Dutch players.
 
That's just silly, Van de Beek is a good player for Ajax but profits as a passenger in a very good side, he's not world class like Frenkie, and would struggle at Everton like Klaassen did.

Silly indeed. Let the coach play Frenkie de Jong in the no 10 role and see how he would perform. I wonder when you start to judge a player in a position that's not his best.

Van De Beek has looked far better than Frenkie in the central midfield. He's quicker with his decision unlike Frenkie who hugs the ball a lot. His movement, spatial awareness and switching of play are far better than that of Frenkie and was one of the reason he was deployed in the no 10 role to accommodate Frenkie and Schone in the midfield. Besides, Beek was my MOM yesterday.

Have you forgotten Van De Beek's performance when he was deputising for Schone in the no 6 role under Bosz? His performance looked far better than what Frenkie has been displaying so far. His performance against schalke, standard Liege etc. As a matter of fact, he looked head and shoulders above his teammates when he came on for Schone against us in the Europa cup final. He and de Ligt were the only players that caught my eyes at the final.

This is de jongs best role in my opinion & I see Ole doing the same thing with Rice at United. Ideally I'd have preferred frankie but we are never as big as Barcelona for Dutch players.

Frenkie actually played in defence at one time especialy when Sanchez left for Spurs while Van de beek was deployed in the no 6 role with Siem de Jong and Ziyech in front of him. I still feel Van De Beek is the better talent than Frenkie but some people are so hung on the dribbling of Frenkie. It's not like de Beek is a slouch in that department albeit not as crazy as that of Frenkie but you don't need crazy dribbling to excel in the no 6 role. All you got to have is solid touch, good passing range to switch play, spatial and defensive awareness, good movement, good reading of the play and good positional discipline. All these I saw in Van De Beek in the role. A shame he wa moved upfield to accommodate Frenkie and Schone in the midfield.

That said, I don't fancy Rice, even as a central back because all we need is a ball playing defender with an expansive passing range right now which Rice isn't. We already have Jones and even, Smalling who are of similar mould. Jones once played in the midfield for Blackburn if I could remember correctly.
 
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He's better than any midfielder we have bar Pogba. What he does well is use his body in a positional sense to nullify the angle of the opposition getting in a tackle. That's a heightened footballing IQ with awareness of space displayed.

Messi and Xavi have been the best I've seen of this era to pull that off. Xavi's 360 turn more commonly known as pelopina, and Messi has mastered running with the ball at odd angles so you can't get a foot in.

Seems like these small details are what separates the Fred's, Herreras etc from the Modrics of this world.
 
Silly indeed. Let the coach play Frenkie de Jong in the no 10 role and see how he would perform. I wonder when you start to judge a player in a position that's not his best.

Van De Beek has looked far better than Frenkie in the central midfield. He's quicker with his decision unlike Frenkie who hugs the ball a lot. His movement, spatial awareness and switching of play are far better than that of Frenkie and was one of the reason he was deployed in the no 10 role to accommodate Frenkie and Schone in the midfield. Besides, Beek was my MOM yesterday.

Have you forgotten Van De Beek's performance when he was deputising for Schone in the no 6 role under Bosz? His performance looked far better than what Frenkie has been displaying so far. His performance against schalke, standard Liege etc. As a matter of fact, he looked head and shoulders above his teammates when he came on for Schone against us in the Europa cup final. He and de Ligt were the only players that caught my eyes at the final.
Wait, you're being serious about this?!
 
Van De Beek has looked far better than Frenkie in the central midfield.

Yeah Barca should have snubbed De Jong and should have gotten VDB for 120m. :lol:
Passenger, man. The opposition trying to pressure Frenkie, trying to defend Ziyech, Tadic, Neres, that creates space elsewhere for the lesser gods to shine.
 
Yeah Barca should have snubbed De Jong and should have gotten VDB for 120m. :lol:
Passenger, man. The opposition trying to pressure Frenkie, trying to defend Ziyech, Tadic, Neres, that creates space elsewhere for the lesser gods to shine.

Maybe because Van De Beek hardly played in that role nowadays. I repeat, let the coach deploy Frenkie in the no 10/SS role and see if Barca won't ask Ajax to refund their money. That Van De Beek was able to make it work in the no 10/SS role despite being a central midfielder speak of more his football brain than anything because he wasn't even a no 10 in Ajax academy, it was Nouri who was the no 10 yet Van De Beek has done well so far in a role which isn't his best. Comparing him to klassen is even more ridiculous because he's not a no 10 to begin with.

And who said Van De Beek wasn't man marked? In fact Van De Beek was singled out as the player to watch out because he had scored consistently for Ajax, especially in the last two matches before Juventus game. He was constantly watched and all the feeds to him were cut off until the coach moved Frenkie deeper thereby allowing Van De Beek to get on the ball a lot more. de Beek even rode some challenges and looked strong yet you said he was given free space?

Anyway, my own personal view is Van De Beek is better than Frenkie in the no 6 role. That De Beek has been deployed a lot as a SS/no 10 to accommodate Frenkie and Schone in the midfield doesn't make him inferior to Frenkie.

Wait, you're being serious about this?!

I'm quite serious about it. Anyone who has really watched Van De Beek as a no 6 knows he was terrific in that role, especially when deployed behind mobile midfielders such as Nouri, Sime de Jong, Ziyech and Klassen in front of him. That's where I see Van De Beek, not the the pseudo no 10 role he has been playing so far.
 
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Frenkie is not a 10 so why would you play him there. Vd Beek doesnt have the awareness, creativity or technical ability to be a playmaker, at all. He's a good all round midfielder with a lot of drive forward. If he improves his finishing he could do well at a subtop club, but Im hard pressed to name any ability bar goalscoring he's better at than Frenkie de Jong. If anything Vd Beek is the dissonant in Ajax fluidity. Which is also why he,'s not being linked to the top clubs.

Frenkie de Jong hogs the ball because that's his role, he baits the opponent into pressuring him and then puts the ball past them or dribbles past them. That's the quality that makes him a unique talent.

Now I'm off to wash my fecking keyboard, because all this praising of Ajax' players is making my Feyenoord hart bleed.
 
Frenkie is not a 10 so why would you play him there. Vd Beek doesnt have the awareness, creativity or technical ability to be a playmaker, at all. He's a good all round midfielder with a lot of drive forward. If he improves his finishing he could do well at a subtop club, but Im hard pressed to name any ability bar goalscoring he's better at than Frenkie de Jong. If anything Vd Beek is the dissonant in Ajax fluidity. Which is also why he,'s not being linked to the top clubs.

Frenkie de Jong hogs the ball because that's his role, he baits the opponent into pressuring him and then puts the ball past them or dribbles past them. That's the quality that makes him a unique talent.

Now I'm off to wash my fecking keyboard, because all this praising of Ajax' players is making my Feyenoord hart bleed.

No, the question should be why should the coach use Van De Beek as a no 10 eventhough he isn't one since you're making an excuse for Frenkie? Better still, why judge him as a no 10?

You said Beek isn't creative yet he has so many assists to his name? Even his YouTube video shows he's a creative playmaking midfielder. Have you watched "Van De Beek, the balancer" clip? That video clips showed a lot of him operating as a playmaking no 6 and that already put this argument to bed. (I'm not allowed to post clip right now but the video clip I suggested showed a lot of him as a no 6)

Frenkie hogs the ball even when there's no reason to do that. Watch his Bayern and Madrid clips. At times, he would just be standing stationary on the ball even while there were options. If you watched these clips and even the one against Juventus, hardly would you see Frenkie make one touch passes. He always has this need to feel the ball lot more with his feet before making a pass, the most annoying one was the one against Madrid after he had beat Modric, he kept on going despite the options around until he eventually lost the ball.

Van De Beek on the hand often make several one touch passes. He is already aware of whom to pick before he gets on the ball and his range of passing is far incisive than Frenkie. Likewise his terrific movement. There's a reason why he was the one singled out to be deployed in the no 10 role out of himself, Schone and Frenkie. I don't even see the reason why he should be judged in the no 10 role eventhough he's done well so far but that's not his best role. He's at his best as a no 6 and that's where he should be judged!

Btw, I ain't Beek's mum.

@KirkDuyt, watch the clip I asked you to and see if Beek can't handle pressure or doesn't make one/two touches passes in the no 6 role. Besides, Frenkie often dwell on the ball even when there are options around him. I just don't see the fluidity in his game when compared to Beek in the same no 6 role. Anyway, it all depends on how the coach continues to use Beek. If Beek goes back to the midfield role, I bet he would eventually rise above Frenkie but not in the pseudo no 10 role he has been playing so far.

I would liken Frenkie to Kovacic who is much more comfortable in the no 6 role (which was where he broke out at Inter) however he doesn't look fluid to me as a playmaker. I said this on a forum I was then that Kovacic doesn't look like a playmaker when Chelsea signed him and that he looks much better as a no 6 not because he operate as a playmaker in the role but his movement, spatial awareness and decision making which are all average could be glossed over in that role while his ball skills and passing skills could be put to use and more pronounced in as a no 6 and when you add the fact that he's no slouch in the defensive department. That's what I see in Frenkie.
 
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No, the question should be why should the coach use Van De Beek as a no 10 eventhough he isn't one since you're making an excuse for Frenkie? Better still, why judge him as a no 10?

You said Beek isn't creative yet he has so many assists to his name? Even his YouTube video shows he's a creative playmaking midfielder. Have you watched "Van De Beek, the balancer" clip? That video clips showed a lot of him operating as a playmaking no 6 and that already put this argument to bed. (I'm not allowed to post clip right now but the video clip I suggested showed a lot of him as a no 6)

Frenkie hogs the ball even when there's no reason to do that. Watch his Bayern and Madrid clips. At times, he would just be standing stationary on the ball even while there were options. If you watched these clips and even the one against Juventus, hardly would you see Frenkie make one touch passes. He always has this need to feel the ball lot more with his feet before making a pass, the most annoying one was the one against Madrid after he had beat Modric, he kept on going despite the options around until he eventually lost the ball.

Van De Beek on the hand often make several one touch passes. He is already aware of whom to pick before he gets on the ball and his range of passing is far incisive than Frenkie. Likewise his terrific movement. There's a reason why he was the one singled out to be deployed in the no 10 role out of himself, Schone and Frenkie. I don't even see the reason why he should be judged in the no 10 role eventhough he's done well so far but that's not his best role. He's at his best as a no 6 and that's where he should be judged!

Btw, I ain't Beek's mum.
Frenkie de Jong picks the ball up near the defense, he's obviously not making a lot of one touch passes, that's not at all his role. Van de Beek makes these one touch passes because he doesn't have the ability to retain possession under pressure and also, because that's not the role he plays in the team. Of course Frenkie sometimes keeps the ball longer than necessary, but that's to be expected from a kid isn't it? Vd Beek on the other hand has a penchant for missing sitters at important moments (like that huge chance yesterday). If anything I'd say Vd Beek is an 8 not a 6. He has neither the defensive awareness nor the composure the operate as a deep lying playmaker.

Judging his creativity on assists is a bit weird, he's a 10 he's bound to touch the ball just before someone scores more often than someone playing much further back.

either way, time will see who's got the right of it. Feel free to quote me in a few years when Vd Beek has outshone Frenkie. If I were a betting man, I'd put some money on it.

Actually I wouldn't, but I've always wanted to use that sentence. Makes me feel like a yankee cowboy.