Frenkie De Jong | Performances

sullydnl said:
Yep. With us already needing a midfielder and Pogba likely leaving in the summer there's a need/opportunity to properly rebuild our midfield.
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Pogba, Matic, Fred and Mctominay were all bought up by Jose. The midfielders who have left us recently like Blind, Herrera and Fellaini have been from LVG and Moyes era.

Nothing that has properly stood out.

It's a time we reinvenst in the midfield because there's just so many gaps and dissapointments and tactical based players (who is our DLP?, who is our anchorman? Etc) that need to be filled.
 
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Mwooyo said:
De jong is a fantastic player but manutd already has players as good as him. Dylan Levitt, James Garner all just need a chance in the first team. I can bet you that they are as good as him. Alternatively, they should go on loan to a team like Ajax and we will be swooning over them within a 1 year or 2
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These are the kind of posts that I come to the caf for. :)
 
Bebestation said:
Pogba, Matic, Fred and Mctominay were all bought up by Fred. The midfielders who have left us recently like Blind, Herrera and Fellaini have been from LVG and Moyes era.

Nothing that has properly stood out.

It's a time we reinvenst in the midfield because there's just so many gaps and dissapointments and tactical based players (who is our DLP?, who is our anchorman? Etc) that need to be filled.
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Yup it's a total mess in midfield. None of the current players we have dovetail in the pivot well, Ole had his go-to pairing in Scott and Fred which was never going to produce trophies but it was solid-ish, until this season where even that pairing has fallen to bits.

Pogba doesn't have the required cover to get game time without being a liability, Matic legs have gone, Fred or Scott aren't the required level. Total mess really.

The problems in midfield are so great that I believe that's where the tactical/formation change should have come from Ole, could have changed to a midfield three a long time back and made the most of VDB at the same time. It would have meant dropping Bruno or pushing him into a false 9 up top with Ronaldo but it would have given us more control in the middle of the park imo.
 
#07 said:
I think that slightly underestimates the physicality and pace of English football. De Jong would get kicked about in the English league in a way referees would not allow in Spain or in the Champions League. That's why I think he would need a proper partner in there with him.

I compare it to Xabi Alonso who excelled as the deepest midfielder for Madrid. However, in England was best suited to partnering Mascherano because of how physical our game is relatively speaking. That's not a slight on De Jong. Its just an observation that someone like De Jong needs a little more protecting in a league like ours.
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It doesn't matter how physical the opposition is when you can't touch him. That never applied to Alonso, he always needed a bit more time and space on the ball, and if he got that he could play passes that de Jong couldn't. They both would be caught out on counter attacks when exposed one on one, that's where the protection helps, but that doesn't have anything to do with the physical nature of the league, and I'm not sure it's any more common in this league than others. Just a nostalgic view of English football.
 
Mwooyo said:
De jong is a fantastic player but manutd already has players as good as him. Dylan Levitt, James Garner all just need a chance in the first team. I can bet you that they are as good as him. Alternatively, they should go on loan to a team like Ajax and we will be swooning over them within a 1 year or 2
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As good as Frenkie De Jong? That’s a madness bro :lol:
 
Brwned said:
It doesn't matter how physical the opposition is when you can't touch him. That never applied to Alonso, he always needed a bit more time and space on the ball, and if he got that he could play passes that de Jong couldn't. They both would be caught out on counter attacks when exposed one on one, that's where the protection helps, but that doesn't have anything to do with the physical nature of the league, and I'm not sure it's any more common in this league than others. Just a nostalgic view of English football.
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I'm not sure it is. Ronaldo even mentioned in his recent Sky interview that the referees here don't give the fouls he would get on the continent.

Refereeing in England is a lot more lenient. It gets silly at times, as in the case of the foul leading up to Southampton's goal against us earlier this season. As a result, the game is more physical and I think De Jong would find it a shock.

As I said, I see a lot of similarities between him and Thiago and I think Thiago found it difficult last season for the kind of reasons I've outlined.
 
He is the perfect NO. 6 for us (Rice comes 2nd). He is obtainable due to Barca's financial situation. But sadly he won't come due to Ole's treatment of vdb.
 
#07 said:
I'm not sure it is. Ronaldo even mentioned in his recent Sky interview that the referees here don't give the fouls he would get on the continent.

Refereeing in England is a lot more lenient. It gets silly at times, as in the case of the foul leading up to Southampton's goal against us earlier this season. As a result, the game is more physical and I think De Jong would find it a shock.

As I said, I see a lot of similarities between him and Thiago and I think Thiago found it difficult last season for the kind of reasons I've outlined.
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He said a couple of things about fouls: English referees give less, and Italian defenders foul more (intelligently). This is coming from a guy who's built like a brick shithouse but appears to fall over more easily than when he was a wafer thin teenager, so there's always that pinch of salt too. It's fair to say those claims have held steady for decades - in both directions. English fans tend to ignore the latter comments in an attempt to glorify their own football. In any case, what he didn't say is the English game is more physical. It might've been when he joined, who knows.

I think Thiago failed for all other sorts of reasons, which is why he's on the periphery for the Spanish team too. We can say for sure that the Spanish team, and international football in general, don't fit that profile. Seems like reaching to fit a narrative to me.
 
De Jong would adapt easily to the PL. The issue is not the league, but the team he plays for. He would tear it up at City for example. At United in our current setup, he would look half the player.
 
golden_blunder said:
That has to be a pisstake. No one could be that deluded. I’m not convinced either are good enough fir United, we could just as easily see them playing for hearts in 5 years
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Yeah must be a windup but you never know.

I had hopes for Garner but I don’t think it will work out at this level for him.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I'm a massive Frenkie fan and hope he leaves Barca. He's in atrocious form and seems to be decomposing at Barca. It's hard to watch.
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As a Barcelona supporter... I hope he stays. It's the main job of Xavi to turn him around together with Ter Stegen. When he came he was the best player but got totally frustrated from being the only one playing with intensity and running non-stop. Now that he's got other motivated players around like Pedri, Gavi, Nico and Ansu, I hope he can recover the confidence because the team will totally turn around if he adds up to the new generation. If he doesn't do it soon I will understand if he asks to leave or just go free though.

I think he is perfect for the Premier League, he has very big quality to run with the ball skipping defensive lines and has the pace to run back and forth. I don't understand the people comparing to Thiago Alcantara... Thiago never run half of what Frenkie can do and at the same time Frenkie, even though he is excellent, doesn't have close the quality touch from Thiago
 
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Mwooyo said:
De jong is a fantastic player but manutd already has players as good as him. Dylan Levitt, James Garner all just need a chance in the first team. I can bet you that they are as good as him.
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What are you betting? Because I'm calling!
 
Brwned said:
He said a couple of things about fouls: English referees give less, and Italian defenders foul more (intelligently). This is coming from a guy who's built like a brick shithouse but appears to fall over more easily than when he was a wafer thin teenager, so there's always that pinch of salt too. It's fair to say those claims have held steady for decades - in both directions. English fans tend to ignore the latter comments in an attempt to glorify their own football. In any case, what he didn't say is the English game is more physical. It might've been when he joined, who knows.

I think Thiago failed for all other sorts of reasons, which is why he's on the periphery for the Spanish team too. We can say for sure that the Spanish team, and international football in general, don't fit that profile. Seems like reaching to fit a narrative to me.
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I don't think Thiago's failed. I just think he's playing in a different type of football, with a different role. I don't see him putting in bad performances. I think, however, there is a degree of evidence to suit the idea that English football can be a bit of a shock to the system if you're not accustomed to it. Saul is a very good player but is clearly not taking to it well at Chelsea.

Still, we clearly differ in opinion on this so probably best to finish there.
 
He's tailor made for the PL honestly

Or the bundesliga

Either league he'd be bloody murder
 
If Pogba goes then I want all three of De jong, Tielemens, Rice for our midfield. Yes I’m greedy and i know it will cost north of 180m minimum but we only deserve it after 3 years of mcfred (sell them) and let me tell you if that happens I would love it, absolutely love it and you can print that.
 
There are few players in world football I want us to get more than him
 
Art said:
Can see City get Frenkie and Pool get Bellingham this summer.
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Bellingham is going to be a top top player but I really think he'd be better served staying in Germany for another couple of seasons and playing week in week out and also playing CL football, I'm not sure he's ready for the step up just yet.
 
His highlights on youtube is absolutely good to watch and I enjoyed his performances at the euros as well. Take it he hasn’t really settled at Barca?
 
pocco said:
How has he actually been playing for Barca? I know many will get carried away because he carried a big reputation at Ajax, but has he actually amounted to a top player at Barca?
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SATA said:
His highlights on youtube is absolutely good to watch and I enjoyed his performances at the euros as well. Take it he hasn’t really settled at Barca?
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Here is something I wrote yesterday as well...


He is being used outside of his strengths at Barcelona, which can be explained by the presence of Busquets. He is mainly being used higher up the field, therefore not being heavily involved/the go to guy in build up of the play from the back. Where he plays now at Barca you would expect another type of player who is more involved in the final part of the attack and brings goals/assists. He is just not that type of player, never been. He gets criticized a fair share in The Netherlands by certain people that he lacks goals and assists. For me personally thats a load of crap. It would be the same as if we would expect Pirlo/Jorginho/Verrati types of players to provide threat in the opponents box in stead of judging them on their playmaking capabilites from behind the ball.

That being said I honestly think he should leave Barcelona. Barcelona will want to build their new team around Pedri/Gavi/Nico in midfield (which makes sense to me) and Busquets is also still there. Adding Frenkie de Jong to that mix doesnt make a good midfield, because it will mean more of the same players which will eventually result in (as you have seem happening now) one of more of those playing outside position and being used outside of their strenghts. Koeman has used him everywhere in the last year. Wide on the left, wide on the right, as central defender and as #10, but hardly as playmaking #6, because Busquets is always there...
 
BrilliantOrange said:
Here is something I wrote yesterday as well...


He is being used outside of his strengths at Barcelona, which can be explained by the presence of Busquets. He is mainly being used higher up the field, therefore not being heavily involved/the go to guy in build up of the play from the back. Where he plays now at Barca you would expect another type of player who is more involved in the final part of the attack and brings goals/assists. He is just not that type of player, never been. He gets criticized a fair share in The Netherlands by certain people that he lacks goals and assists. For me personally thats a load of crap. It would be the same as if we would expect Pirlo/Jorginho/Verrati types of players to provide threat in the opponents box in stead of judging them on their playmaking capabilites from behind the ball.

That being said I honestly think he should leave Barcelona. Barcelona will want to build their new team around Pedri/Gavi/Nico in midfield (which makes sense to me) and Busquets is also still there. Adding Frenkie de Jong to that mix doesnt make a good midfield, because it will mean more of the same players which will eventually result in (as you have seem happening now) one of more of those playing outside position and being used outside of their strenghts. Koeman has used him everywhere in the last year. Wide on the left, wide on the right, as central defender and as #10, but hardly as playmaking #6, because Busquets is always there...
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Hmm, doesn't sound great. I know Busquets is/was a very good player, but at 33 years old you would expect a 24 year old De Jong to be putting pressure on him for that position if he was that good there.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
For me personally thats a load of crap. It would be the same as if we would expect Pirlo/Jorginho/Verrati types of players to provide threat in the opponents box in stead of judging them on their playmaking capabilites from behind the ball.
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So what you're saying is.. VdB should have gone to Barca and Frenkie to United.
 
pocco said:
Hmm, doesn't sound great. I know Busquets is/was a very good player, but at 33 years old you would expect a 24 year old De Jong to be putting pressure on him for that position if he was that good there.
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You would say, but I think its not as easy. The problem is that Busquets is a great player, but not versatile at all.. He plays at 6 on 100m2 the whole game or nowhere at all. De Jong can be more versatile - even if it means playing him outside of his strenghts which can potentially make him a world class player.

Furthermore the Barca squad isnt good enough to be able to consider benching Busquets.. Hence Koeman kept insisting on playing De Jong somewhere else together with Busquets... Understandable ofcourse, but it has gone a bit at cost of De Jong if you ask me...
 
tenpoless said:
So what you're saying is.. VdB should have gone to Barca and Frenkie to United.
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100%

EDIT: Well I wouldn't have encouraged Frenkie to go to Man Utd while Ole was in charge, as I want him to be a player which players for CL/League contenders..

I do however fully agree with the point you are making.
 
If we get either Ten Hag or Zidane - then I can maybe see him wanting to coming here.

So maybe it's too soon to say its completely unlikely.
 
I don't know why most people here think barca will ever let him go. Busquets is 33, going to 34. Next year is his final year at barca. Nico is very green and so is gavi. De Jong is the man in the midfield and xavi said as much when he was signed.

De Jong also reiterated many times he does not want to leave. Has a contract until 2026 and a 400 mil release clause. It's a pipe dream.
 
sun_tzu said:
Isnt he on a contract till 2026... with a 400 million euro buy out clause

Dont think hes going anywhere in the short term unless barca hit even more financial trouble
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Sure I'm not saying its guaranteed or even close to happening but if we move in the right direction with managers then I wouldn't exactly say its the most impossible either.

Ten Hag is someone he knows can get the best out of him and VDB. If he is feeling fustrated at Barcelona one day and Ten Hag is ours then why not?

Zidane is a CL hattrick winning manager so why not the interest both by the player and the club for a position that we need new players in?

I'm just trying to look to the future a bit better with a better manager.

I mean I know it sounds like a complete Football Manager Save, but if Zidane did become our manager - would your be surprised at Haaland wanting to work under Zidane as his manager considering what Zidane achieved with Real Madrid?
 
BrilliantOrange said:
100%

EDIT: Well I wouldn't have encouraged Frenkie to go to Man Utd while Ole was in charge, as I want him to be a player which players for CL/League contenders..

I do however fully agree with the point you are making.
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Also Van de Beek is not even close to good enough to play for Barça.
 
sun_tzu said:
Isnt he on a contract till 2026... with a 400 million euro buy out clause

Dont think hes going anywhere in the short term unless barca hit even more financial trouble
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Barcelona could maybe be convinced by a deal that is above 100m, they could do with an injection of cash, they have lots of young very talented players and selling Griezmann and De Jong could see them inject 200m between transfer fees and wages for 22/23. From that point Barcelona would be in pretty good shape and since they generate lots of money, in 18 months they could easily become on of the top dogs again.

I don't know if they will take that kind of tough decisions though.
 
Bebestation said:
I mean I know it sounds like a complete Football Manager Save, but if Zidane did become our manager - would your be surprised at Haaland wanting to work under Zidane as his manager considering what Zidane achieved with Real Madrid?
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Nothing against Zidane but I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if haaland moves to us regardless of the manager
 
Another very safe performance yesterday. 2 years ago he would relentlessly dribble and go past midfielders to create space, now it's just the safe pass to the side or back all the time. Of course yesterday was a bit of a special match where the team was clearly instructed to take zero risk, but I watched some highlights from De Jong against France and Germany in the nation's league and he was just amazing to watch. Quite a lot of (clueless) Dutch football fans are already starting to call him overrated and shite. A ridiculous notion obviously, but he's very much off form.
 
Sinbad the sailor said:
I don't know why most people here think barca will ever let him go. Busquets is 33, going to 34. Next year is his final year at barca. Nico is very green and so is gavi. De Jong is the man in the midfield and xavi said as much when he was signed.

De Jong also reiterated many times he does not want to leave. Has a contract until 2026 and a 400 mil release clause. It's a pipe dream.
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He's on a huge wages and Barca are still not out of the woods in terms of their financial situation. They have a lot of young talent in midfield (Pedri, Gavi, Puig, Nico as well as more experienced Roberto) and while from a footballing perspective selling De Jong doesn't make any sense, it may be one of the easiest ways to quickly generate some money (they'd free about 300-400k per week as well as an additional +- 100 mil as a transfer fee).
 
Here's the problem with your reasoning. They already made that sacrifice. The lost their biggest jewel to keep their young stars. If you look at the last two seasons barca have removed Messi, suarez, griezmann, Vidal, rakitic and pjanic from the wage book. Those were their highest earners and the reason they let them all go was to keep the likes of de Jong. Another thing that people don't get is how green nico is. He's barely played 5 matches. He's not gonna replace de Jong let alone busquets at this point.

And financially speaking they're already getting back on their feet. With fans coming back and a new shirt sponsor on the horizon they're even gonna bid 40 mil for adeyemi soon. So no de Jong is not leaving barca anytime soon.
 
Its not a crazy idea, but depends on a lot of factors...

- I cannot imagine Frenkie wanting to come here while Olé is still here.
- Would Donny still want to leave when a new manager comes in?
- Does Barca want Donny?
- It would require quite some extra cash from United side..
 
BrilliantOrange said:
Here is something I wrote yesterday as well...


He is being used outside of his strengths at Barcelona, which can be explained by the presence of Busquets. He is mainly being used higher up the field, therefore not being heavily involved/the go to guy in build up of the play from the back. Where he plays now at Barca you would expect another type of player who is more involved in the final part of the attack and brings goals/assists. He is just not that type of player, never been. He gets criticized a fair share in The Netherlands by certain people that he lacks goals and assists. For me personally thats a load of crap. It would be the same as if we would expect Pirlo/Jorginho/Verrati types of players to provide threat in the opponents box in stead of judging them on their playmaking capabilites from behind the ball.

That being said I honestly think he should leave Barcelona. Barcelona will want to build their new team around Pedri/Gavi/Nico in midfield (which makes sense to me) and Busquets is also still there. Adding Frenkie de Jong to that mix doesnt make a good midfield, because it will mean more of the same players which will eventually result in (as you have seem happening now) one of more of those playing outside position and being used outside of their strenghts. Koeman has used him everywhere in the last year. Wide on the left, wide on the right, as central defender and as #10, but hardly as playmaking #6, because Busquets is always there...
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Good post! although I also agree on a poster after you saying that it is a bit dissapointing that Frenkie can't make his claim on the #6 at Barca with a 33 year old Busquets as his main competitor.

This guy is so insanely good though when properly used. I would love it if he moved away from Barca to the Premier League. I think he would be very well suited to the high paced, high intensity style of the league. He would be breaking out from defence to attack left right and center, it would be a joy to watch. More personally, the Premier League is the only domestic league I follow outside the Netherlands. Would love it if he would play there, so I can see more of him. I think United would suit his style really well as well, but I doubt he would go here as long as Ole is headcoach (no dig at Ole intended)
 
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