Will he be the direct Fellaini replacement then ?
Fredge | Deal done
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
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High energy box-box player alongside a calm deep-lying passer (Carrick/Alonso clone) is quite likely to be the long-term plan.
I've watched him play many times. He's like a slightly less defensive Aleksei Smertin or less aggressive Fernandinho. Hard to say if he would be good enough, could go either way like those two did, but i doubt he will improve you by much if he does adapt well. If he was actually Ukrainian i'd confidently predict a flop, but the Brazilians tend to be much tougher mentally even if not obvious great talents at UPL level...it's not like Fernandinho or Willian really looked anything other than just good solid players for Shakhtar level either, but they've both done well in England.
I say feck off all signings and start kicking our current player's asses cause there will be no huge different if we ain't get a second Modric
He seems to be a competant player even when at CL level and appears to want a move to UK.
If we think he will fit in then we should get him for reasonable money but I don't think City will compete they set their maximum spend and thats it for any player. The main competition for his signiture may come from elsewhere but again does he fit our needs re Jose's likes ?
From someone that lives in the Ukraine and watches quite a bit of "our" premier league here (season ticket at Dynamo Kyiv):
@devilish described the attributes of Fred pretty well. He normally plays besides Taras Stepanenko in a double pivot at the base of Shaktar´s midfield. Of those two he is the slightly more offensive one, but it has probably more to do with their strengths than anything else. They are both defensive midfielders. To compare Fred with Willian is incorrect and a ltb lazy to be honest. They are completely different players. If there is a Willian in Shaktar its Taison. The comparison with Herrera that has been thrown around here is much more relevant.
Fred is a good player, one of the best players in the squad but by no means a standout. I would probably even go so far as to say that Stepanenko is the more important player for Shaktar.
What I dont get is that the quality of the Ukrainian league is questioned more than it is in this thread. It seems that people are taking for granted that a player from a league that is at best on the level of the Norwegian and or the Swedish league (and I am Swedish) is ready not just to come to United but also it seems to be expected to be a leading player. Especially since people are questioning transfers from leauges like the Dutch or even the French. That baffles me a bit.
The quality of the Ukrainian league has been deterioating for many years now. It has always been a two team league if there ever was one. Dynamo and Shaktar. Dynamo has pretty much changed their entire team in two years. Last time I watched them live I think there was one or two players with shirt numbers under 30. Got ousted from the CL qualification and then didnt really do anything in the EL either.
And Dynamo still trails Shaktar with just three points with a couple games left to play this season. Dynamo actually beat Shaktar away two weeks ago. Shaktar has even dropped quite a few points this year against teams that would struggle in any of the professional leagues in England.
Even if football math doesnt work, its an illustration of the fact that todays Ukrainian league is nothing like the one that "produced" Willian and Mkhi for example. The rest of the 10 teams would seriously even struggle in the Swedish league and that says something.
Another illustrative fact is that the last major transfer from the Ukraine to Europe is when Yarmolenko left Dynamo for Dortmund. Where he has done OK, nothing more. Yarmolenko was a different animal in this league though. Much more dominant than Fred is now (different positions of course).
Of course its both impressive - maybe more surprising - that Shaktar did so well in the CL this year. But I would submit that its quite different to perform every week against far, far inferior opposition, in a far, far, far less competetive league than the PL; compared to be supposed to start for United every week.
Its a big risk to pay that amount of money for a player from the Ukrainian league. Even if he is good. And Fred is, I just dont see why United would spend that amount of money on a player that hasnt performed more consistently in a bigger league; other than a couple of CL-games.
@devilish described the attributes of Fred pretty well. He normally plays besides Taras Stepanenko in a double pivot at the base of Shaktar´s midfield. Of those two he is the slightly more offensive one, but it has probably more to do with their strengths than anything else. They are both defensive midfielders. To compare Fred with Willian is incorrect and a ltb lazy to be honest. They are completely different players. If there is a Willian in Shaktar its Taison. The comparison with Herrera that has been thrown around here is much more relevant.
Fred is a good player, one of the best players in the squad but by no means a standout. I would probably even go so far as to say that Stepanenko is the more important player for Shaktar.
What I dont get is that the quality of the Ukrainian league is questioned more than it is in this thread. It seems that people are taking for granted that a player from a league that is at best on the level of the Norwegian and or the Swedish league (and I am Swedish) is ready not just to come to United but also it seems to be expected to be a leading player. Especially since people are questioning transfers from leauges like the Dutch or even the French. That baffles me a bit.
The quality of the Ukrainian league has been deterioating for many years now. It has always been a two team league if there ever was one. Dynamo and Shaktar. Dynamo has pretty much changed their entire team in two years. Last time I watched them live I think there was one or two players with shirt numbers under 30. Got ousted from the CL qualification and then didnt really do anything in the EL either.
And Dynamo still trails Shaktar with just three points with a couple games left to play this season. Dynamo actually beat Shaktar away two weeks ago. Shaktar has even dropped quite a few points this year against teams that would struggle in any of the professional leagues in England.
Even if football math doesnt work, its an illustration of the fact that todays Ukrainian league is nothing like the one that "produced" Willian and Mkhi for example. The rest of the 10 teams would seriously even struggle in the Swedish league and that says something.
Another illustrative fact is that the last major transfer from the Ukraine to Europe is when Yarmolenko left Dynamo for Dortmund. Where he has done OK, nothing more. Yarmolenko was a different animal in this league though. Much more dominant than Fred is now (different positions of course).
Of course its both impressive - maybe more surprising - that Shaktar did so well in the CL this year. But I would submit that its quite different to perform every week against far, far inferior opposition, in a far, far, far less competetive league than the PL; compared to be supposed to start for United every week.
Its a big risk to pay that amount of money for a player from the Ukrainian league. Even if he is good. And Fred is, I just dont see why United would spend that amount of money on a player that hasnt performed more consistently in a bigger league; other than a couple of CL-games.
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On another note, been a while since we've had a Brazilian.
If Luckhurst is right, then we're going to sign 2 midfielders not just one, and thus I think Fred will be Fellaini's main replacement in squad while we're still signing someone else. If it's true I can't argue much about this signing. Didn't watch him much but he looks like he'll be good in this kind of role in the team.
Seems that the general consensus is cautiously not overly impressed..!!
Is he a DM or box to box? Haven't really seen him playing. What kind of player is he and how will he fit in with Pogba and co?
He will be a great signing then.
what fees are being mentioned for this lad?
Probably too much. We don't do bargains anymore.
The worrying line bandied about with this is he will be a "direct" replacement for Fellaini....
That's actually very valid observation and comparison.
Would that be a problem if we got someone even better to replace Carrick. Not sure this guy is good enough as a Carrick replacement. Is Malinkovic Savic more looking towards being a Carrick replacement or is he not like him either? I like him, he is always around the box and is a goal threat. We need more goals in this side, even though we have improved our output. If Fred is a squad option then fine.
If Jose wants him, i am all for it. I have learnt to shut up after he signed Matic and a huge success here
sign Lewis Cook instead, Kroos to replace Pogba and Aaron Ramsey to play advanced to bench Lingard. Midfield set.
No thanks, rather stick with Pogs and Lingard
Not sure if serious
What have you been smoking
Posted this earlier in the thread but I'll be interested to see if we comment on this if we do end up signing him.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/15/fred-brazil-doping-ban-shakhtar-donetsk
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/dec/15/fred-brazil-doping-ban-shakhtar-donetsk
Of course opinions are subjective but he scored a great goal in the 2-1 against Roma in the first leg and was one of the best players imo.
Have been away from football for while but is Pogba leaving? What's the news? I saw somewhere that Martial wants to leave but Pogba?
Ffs...cant we buy a Brazilian with a proper Brazilian name!!
For that reason i prefer Jorginho.
For that reason i prefer Jorginho.
If he's good enough for Man City then he's good enough for us. Sign him up quickly - hopefully before the start of the World Cup. He's without a doubt better than Fellaini and probably Herrera as well.
Someone quickly get Claudio Bravo's agent on the phone!
Who isn't Brazilian?
I'm Welsh and I don't want Ramsey at United. I'd have Kroos but not to replace Pogba.
Why not? He’s a incredibly productive and better on the ball than Lingard.
Just came on to say that! Fans want flashy names. Jose will know what the team ACTUALLY needs to kick on.
A great post and several very good points. However, it is a mayor plus that our scouts have had the chance to see him two times against City, Napoli and Rome this season. Furthermore, he played against both Real Madrid and PSG twice two years ago. That is ten games against top teams.
We should have a good foundation to evaluate him.
Such a thing does not exist. They're all named after dead US Presidents and generic white boys' names.
Anyone with an "-inho" in his name is a flashy technical midget and a follower of St Pep. We only sign big hulking brutes for dour Jose. That's why George is signing for City.
Box to box. He's pretty much like Herrera on a good day but more agile and better passer.
Liverpool are so lucky Oxlade went out for Wijnaldum who is bossing the game
He failed doping test. I dont think he's proper to united.
Thanks. I would reply more in-depth if I still wasnt shocked from yesterday and the prospect of I dont know how many Scousers invading Kyiv for the final in a month. Need to get out of town by then.
Shaktar is playing the last game of the season here in Kyiv 19 May, in which will probably be the title decider. I will post a small scouting report after that in this thread.
His name is Frederico Rodrigues de Paula Santos. And whats a "white boy name"?
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