Fred | no longer Fred the Red but now a Turkish delight

[Marwood]

I don't understand how people are so happy with this; Fred was more than good enough for a squad player role. He was criminally underrated and the least of our worries but some are celebrating it like we got rid of all of our problems.

How can we say we're improving our squad when we sign the likes of Mount who is a downgrade for a lot of money. It's like summer 2019 when we sold Smalling for peanuts and signed Maguire for a record fee.

I'm sorry but we're still awful in both selling & buying in the transfer market.

Well he's a player with a rubbish first touch and dodgy passing.

For a team that struggles with ball retention I'd say he's very much top of the list when it comes to worries.

So I'm glad he's moved on. The club has to set a minimum standard for technical ability. We've lowered that bar for far too long.

 

[Hughes35]

Didn't mind Fred for certain games. Glad to see ETH being ruthless about getting rid of players that aren't good enough or don't suit his system though.

The reason he's cheap is because he's one year left, high wages and most importantly - the club don't want him.

I'm very happy with our window so far. I like what we've bought (hopefully get at least one more in before the end, hopefully two). The clear out has been needed for years and great we're finally doing it. Jones, Telles, Elanga, Fred, De Gea, Maguire, Henderson..... that's an awful lot of wages and a lot of crap out the door. Hopefully get DVB and hopefully Martial gone too. Although Martial will probably stay just because we're light upfront.

 

[iHicksy]

All you armchair football experts who like to prattle on about stats. Did it ever cross your ginormous brains that there's a reason that the only team which are in for him are Fenerbache. And the reason we can only get this much for him is because the only team that want to buy him are....Fenerbache. Are you starting to understand his level yet? You can bitch and moan all you like about us not getting 30million for him, but do you know why we can't? Because no decent team with that money to spend on a player like Fred, wants a player like Fred. When is this going to sink in?

 

[zaafi]

All you armchair football experts who like to prattle on about stats. Did it ever cross your ginormous brains that there's a reason that the only team which are in for him are Fenerbache. And the reason we can only get this much for him is because the only team that want to buy him are....Fenerbache. Are you starting to understand his level yet? You can bitch and moan all you like about us not getting 30million for him, but do you know why we can't? Because no decent team with that money to spend on a player like Fred, wants a player like Fred. When is this going to sink in?

If you're going to act like an asshole, at least make your post easy on the eyes. Looks like a 12 year old wrote it

 

[OverratedOpinion]

All you armchair football experts who like to prattle on about stats.

Yes god forbid looking at actual stats when trying to assess a player. Rambling and slightly rude posts like yours are far more intellectual.

 

[parmenio]

I thought we may have gotten more but he had to go. Scotty I would hold out for at least £40m - the trolls on here who knock every player we have won’t accept he’s a half decent mid level prem league player who just scored 2 goals against Spain when player in his proper position. Sell Henderson and I’d even sell Sancho too he’s had 2 years. Geez on Sancho I saw posts on here saying spend whatever it takes break the world record if need be he’s a sure fire hit. He’s not he may recover but not here Imo. We have better and younger so move on and build up the kitty for ETH to build the squad he needs to challenge.

 

[iHicksy]

Yes god forbid looking at actual stats when trying to assess a player. Rambling and slightly rude posts like yours are far more intellectual.

No you're right, you know far more than people within the sport and ETH himself. Maybe try watching Fred and the likes of Caicedo then show me the "stats" that show how many times he carries the ball out of tight spaces under a press and how progressive he is in. Orr you could try actually watching football. Same thinking that got people on here saying Lukaku was a world class striker because of his stats in Serie A, despite the fact if you actually watched him you'd see the ball bounce off him 9 times out of 10. Same thing applies to Fred.

 

[zaafi]

No you're right, you know far more than people within the sport and ETH himself. Maybe try watching Fred and the likes of Caicedo then show me the "stats" that show how many times he carries the ball out of tight spaces under a press and how progressive he is in. Orr you could try actually watching football. Same thinking that got people on here saying Lukaku was a world class striker because of his stats in Serie A, despite the fact if you actually watched him you'd see the ball bounce off him 9 times out of 10. Same thing applies to Fred.

Go back a few seasons and you'll see he progressed the ball better and more often than Caicedo. You're genuinely clueless.

No one is saying Fred is good enough for our midfield now, but to claim he has been shit for us is just dumb.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

No you're right, you know far more than people within the sport and ETH himself. Maybe try watching Fred and the likes of Caicedo then show me the "stats" that show how many times he carries the ball out of tight spaces under a press and how progressive he is in. Orr you could try actually watching football. Same thinking that got people on here saying Lukaku was a world class striker because of his stats in Serie A, despite the fact if you actually watched him you'd see the ball bounce off him 9 times out of 10. Same thing applies to Fred.

I've never said I know more than Eric Ten Hag, I've said Fred is a good football player. Ten Hag might agree even if he isn't the player Ten Hag feels he needs currently.

You understand it's possible to watch football matches, develop an opinion and ALSO know how to provide stats which back your opinion up?

I've watched every match Fred has played in a United shirt, many in person.

You're just making weird assumptions, I'm sorry you have such an issue with stats. Stats are just a record of things that have actually happened. Such as Fred progressing the ball with both passing and carries. Also stats would show the poor points of Lukaku's game very clearly.

P.s. if you believe the ball bounces off Fred 9 out of 10 times I'd suggest you maybe haven't watched football at all.

 

[mshnsh]

Complete nonsense.

It's amazing that Caicedo is a world class player who so many on here are heartbroken to be missing out on. Yet Fred is garbage despite his stats being nearly identical to Caicedo during the first 4 years he was here.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Fred, (along with Maguire, Mctominay et al) represents an era that is best forgotten by Man Utd fans.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Stats don't tell the whole story. Fred, (along with Maguire, Mctominay et al) represents an era that is best forgotten by Man Utd fans.

No they don't, but if he's statistically done a lot of really good things very consistently that would probably indicate he's not "rubbish" or whatever other words have been used to describe him here.

He was part of that era, he wasn't one of the main causes.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

I’m actually quite sad to see Fred go, I’m going to miss the guy. Football at the top level can be almost machine-like these days so as much as it was incredibly frustrating at times, I loved his unpredictability. And so often that was during one game, he could be a complete liability in one half and then world class in the next, always with that same smile on his face. Sport is ultimately about entertainment, and for me Fred was an entertaining player.

I was hoping he’d stay in the PL but Turkey could be a good move for him. I remember reading in a couple of interviews that he liked to explore around the UK with his family so I’m sure they’ll enjoy discovering some new places.

Thanks and good luck!

 

[iHicksy]

I've never said I know more than Eric Ten Hag, I've said Fred is a good football player. Ten Hag might agree even if he isn't the player Ten Hag feels he needs currently.

You understand it's possible to watch football matches, develop an opinion and ALSO know how to provide stats which back your opinion up?

I've watched every match Fred has played in a United shirt, many in person.

You're just making weird assumptions, I'm sorry you have such an issue with stats. Stats are just a record of things that have actually happened. Such as Fred progressing the ball with both passing and carries. Also stats would show the poor points of Lukaku's game very clearly.

P.s. if you believe the ball bounces off Fred 9 out of 10 times I'd suggest you maybe haven't watched football at all.

It's not a weird assumption. I'm a season ticket holder, i've seen him and i watch all of brighton's games. The two players are not comparable at all. And you seem to have a problem comprehending. I didn't say the ball bounces off him, I used Lukaku as an example of someone who's stats mislead people into thinking he's a quality striker, and the same applies to Fred. Again, your opinion is pretty invalid since the entity of the football world don't want to sign him for such a cheap fee Yet you think he commands a higher price. Therefore you think you know better. You dont. No one wants him because actual football managers know there's no place for him in any decent side that wants to play progressive football.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp here. Even mid table prem teams don't want to sign him. Does it not occur to you if he's as good as you're making out that a prem team with all their money would chuck 20mil at him? No one outside of a farmer's league wants him for a reason. Stats don't mean shit because they are so limited within the scope of metrics which can't actual quantify if a player is good or not.

 

[Zoo]

 

[mattunited1978]

Really happy he's gone, dont know if ETH thinks he's rubbish or just not a fit, just delighted he agree's Fred shouldn't be part of our plans going forward.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It's not a weird assumption. I'm a season ticket holder, i've seen him and i watch all of brighton's games. The two players are not comparable at all. And you seem to have a problem comprehending. I didn't say the ball bounces off him, I used Lukaku as an example of someone who's stats mislead people into thinking he's a quality striker, and the same applies to Fred. Again, your opinion is pretty invalid since the entity of the football world don't want to sign him for such a cheap fee Yet you think he commands a higher price. Therefore you think you know better. You dont. No one wants him because actual football managers know there's no place for him in any decent side that wants to play progressive football.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp here. Even mid table prem teams don't want to sign him. Does it not occur to you if he's as good as you're making out that a prem team with all their money would chuck 20mil at him? No one outside of a farmer's league wants him for a reason. Stats don't mean shit because they are so limited within the scope of metrics which can't actual quantify if a player is good or not.

I think the fact that he's 30, is on a high wage and has unfairly developed this reputation as a failed "meme" player is the reason why.

I also haven't said we should get more money for him. You don't even know what you're arguing.

Also what you are saying about Lukaku is nonsense. Stats would show Lukaku being a poor player unless you just looked at goals scored. Your entire premise is wrong.

My eyes tell me he's a good player, your eyes tell you he isn't. I have stats to back up my assertion. If you want to play the "your opinion is invalid" game we can considering you have nothing to back up your view other than incoherent rambling and I'd assume lying that you watch "all" of Brighton's matches.

How many other teams do you watch all their matches?

 

[zaafi]

It's not a weird assumption. I'm a season ticket holder, i've seen him and i watch all of brighton's games. The two players are not comparable at all. And you seem to have a problem comprehending. I didn't say the ball bounces off him, I used Lukaku as an example of someone who's stats mislead people into thinking he's a quality striker, and the same applies to Fred. Again, your opinion is pretty invalid since the entity of the football world don't want to sign him for such a cheap fee Yet you think he commands a higher price. Therefore you think you know better. You dont. No one wants him because actual football managers know there's no place for him in any decent side that wants to play progressive football.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp here. Even mid table prem teams don't want to sign him. Does it not occur to you if he's as good as you're making out that a prem team with all their money would chuck 20mil at him? No one outside of a farmer's league wants him for a reason. Stats don't mean shit because they are so limited within the scope of metrics which can't actual quantify if a player is good or not.

You're a season ticket holder but somehow you watch all of Brighton's games

How exactly are Fred and Caicedo incomparable? Your posts are just unreadable rambling. You don't even know what you're saying.

No PL team wants Fred because he is approaching 31 and on high wages. Why should a Premier League club go for him when they can get a younger, better option with less wages?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

15m euros in this market is so so poor. Fred would be a good signing for anyone outside of the European places, he’s got plenty of Brazil caps and is a decent back up.

Why would we sell him for next to nothing? The club is a joke.

I’m all for criticising the club, as it deserves it generally but some of you are the most miserable specimens in football.

If Fred were half the commodity some of you are still trying to claim he is, he A) wouldn’t be going to Turkey; B) Would have mustered more interest thus a larger fee.

He’s a hold over from an underwhelming Ole tenure with a year left, good signings for anyone outside of the European places generally sign for those clubs. Him going to Turkey should tell you something.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It's not a weird assumption. I'm a season ticket holder, i've seen him and i watch all of brighton's games. The two players are not comparable at all. And you seem to have a problem comprehending. I didn't say the ball bounces off him, I used Lukaku as an example of someone who's stats mislead people into thinking he's a quality striker, and the same applies to Fred. Again, your opinion is pretty invalid since the entity of the football world don't want to sign him for such a cheap fee Yet you think he commands a higher price. Therefore you think you know better. You dont. No one wants him because actual football managers know there's no place for him in any decent side that wants to play progressive football.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp here. Even mid table prem teams don't want to sign him. Does it not occur to you if he's as good as you're making out that a prem team with all their money would chuck 20mil at him? No one outside of a farmer's league wants him for a reason. Stats don't mean shit because they are so limited within the scope of metrics which can't actual quantify if a player is good or not.

This./

All of This./

 

[zaafi]

I’m all for criticising the club, as it deserves it generally but some of you are the most miserable specimens in football.

If Fred were half the commodity some of you are still trying to claim he is, he A) wouldn’t be going to Turkey; B) Would have mustered more interest thus a larger fee.

He’s a hold over from an underwhelming Ole tenure with a year left, good signings for anyone outside of the European places generally sign for those clubs. Him going to Turkey should tell you something.

Robin van Persie went to the same club at 31. You don't think he could do a job at a mid-table PL club? Was Turkey his level, and should it tell us something that only Fenerbahce wanted him?

 

[El Jefe]

For all the people that said Fred was class or a very good player the interest in him this window tells the story.

A few seasons ago there were still fans saying he was as good as Kante.

Fred is the kind of player that looks good when we are bad and if we are good he stands out as being poor. Honestly one of the most flawed CMs I've ever watched. He has a poor first touch, can't pass or shoot but plays as if he has all of those qualities which is why he's so erratic.

Celebrating players like Fred for his football explains why standards are so low at the club now. Thankfully EtH is restoring what it means to be a Man Utd player. You can definitely give Fred credit for his hard work and character of never giving up, he definitely gave us all he could.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Robin van Persie went to the same club at 31. You don't think he could do a job at a mid-table PL club? Was Turkey his level, and should it tell us something that only Fenerbahce wanted him?

The fact that no one wanted to sign him at 31 would point to the fact, not internet opinion, that either A) no other premier league team thought he could or b) he didn’t want to play for the teams that would have been interested, which certainly wouldn’t have been United level.

RvP had injury issues & quite frankly putting him in the same sentence as Fred should be a bannable offence. You can’t equivocate the two. Back to Fred, if he had suitors they’d pay up the £15mil, he quite obviously does not.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

For all the people that said Fred was class or a very good player the interest in him this window tells the story.

A few seasons ago there were still fans saying he was as good as Kante.

Fred is the kind of player that looks good when we are bad and if we are good he stands out as being poor. Honestly one of the most flawed CMs I've ever watched. He has a poor first touch, can't pass or shoot but plays as if he has all of those qualities which is why he's so erratic.

Celebrating players like Fred for his football explains why standards are so low at the club now. Thankfully EtH is restoring what it means to be a Man Utd player. You can definitely give Fred credit for his hard work and character of never giving up, he definitely gave us all he could.

This./

 

[Eyepopper]

I'm a season ticket holder, and i watch all of brighton's games.

So you're the guy, often seen running around the Stretford end, phone in hand, asking if anyone has a stream for the Brighton game.

Always wondered what the story was with that.

 

[mshnsh]

No they don't, but if he's statistically done a lot of really good things very consistently that would probably indicate he's not "rubbish" or whatever other words have been used to describe him here.

He was part of that era, he wasn't one of the main causes.

Do you think he was good enough for us?

 

[MadDogg]

False.

A myth perpetuated by those who needed a scapegoat for our failure over the last few years. his passing success rate for his first 4 seasons was in the 90th percentile in Europe.

The issue with Fred is that when he gets it wrong he tends to get it very very badly wrong, so it stands out so much more than most players. He then also draws attention to it further by his patented hands-up apology, compared to other players who'll just turn around and move on as if it never happened.

He's not a good passer, but he's also nowhere near as bad as many make out. Much better than McTominay for example, seeing as Fred plays more passes, more difficult passes, and more progressive passes into more dangerous attacking areas, all while actually having a better success rate (actually to be fair I see Scott's completion rate was slightly ahead of him last season, but normally Fred's ahead). Now obviously being better than McTominay is hardly a glowing reference, but I hardly see Scott's passing being labelled diabolical and a disgrace.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Do you think he was good enough for us?

Yes as a squad option, I would have been happy to keep him.

 

[zaafi]

The fact that no one wanted to sign him at 31 would point to the fact, not internet opinion, that either A) no other premier league team thought he could or b) he didn’t want to play for the teams that would have been interested, which certainly wouldn’t have been United level.

RvP had injury issues & quite frankly putting him in the same sentence as Fred should be a bannable offence. You can’t equivocate the two. Back to Fred, if he had suitors they’d pay up the £15mil, he quite obviously does not.

What you say make absolutely no sense. He scored 10 goals in his last PL season for us (around 2000 minutes), yet somehow no PL team think one of the finest PL strikers could play for them. He wasn't interested in playing in Premier League, but wanted to play for Fenerbahce in the Turkish league? Why?

Maybe because you're wrong. Maybe because PL teams don't want to sign aging players with high wages, even if they're good enough for their team. Have you ever thought about that? That teams plan strategically and for the future? Or is that concept a bit too challenging for you to grasp?

You're debating like a child. Oh, yeah, speaking of van Persie and Fred in the same sentence should be a bannable offence. Why is it that posters like you are unable to grasp that I'm not comparing their abilities, but their cases. They were both 30. They were both United players. They were both on high wages. That's why PL teams don't go for them. Van Persie was sold for £4.7m. He must be shit then, right?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Maybe because you're wrong. Maybe because PL teams don't want to sign aging players with high wages, even if they're good enough for their team. Have you ever thought about that? That teams plan strategically and for the future? Or is that concept a bit too challenging for you to grasp?

You're debating like a child. Oh, yeah, speaking of van Persie and Fred in the same sentence should be a bannable offence. Why is it that posters like you are unable to grasp that I'm not comparing their abilities, but their cases. They were both 30. They were both United players. They were both on high wages. That's why PL teams don't go for them. Van Persie was sold for £4.7m. He must be shit then, right?

First paragraph is irrelevant drivel as RvP going to Turkey under a completely different set of circumstances to Fred isn’t relevant here. You’re getting mad, as is usual on here, about something no one has said.

It pretty difficult to be ‘wrong’ in a debate of opinion of an internet forum buddy but you’re having a great crack at it.

30 year old Harry Kane just moved to Bayern for €100mil & we have numerous examples in recent years of players 29 & up moving for fees similar/bigger to that of Fred’s - if the interest was there in the main leagues of Europe he’d be playing there infact if he were half as good as some of you claim EtH would just keep him.

You say teams plan strategically & for the future, the fact that Fred doesn’t fit in to either answers your own rather ludicrous post in itself. No club in a major league sees Fred as part of it present or future plans.

I’d suggest you read what is written instead of getting yourself upset.

 

[whitbyviking]

Should have asked for Enner Valencia in part-ex as a budget goalscorer option. The new Ighalo.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

30 year old Harry Kane just moved to Bayern for €100mil & we have numerous examples in recent years of players 29 & up moving for fees similar/bigger to that of Fred’s

He's the second best striker in the world mate.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He's the second best striker in the world mate.

He’s over 30 years old mate. Context matters mate.

 

[hobbers]

Fred was worth next to nothing because he’s a terrible footballer. No one wanted him because he’s a terrible footballer.

A relic from the era of our relentless failure

 

[Jippy]

For all the people that said Fred was class or a very good player the interest in him this window tells the story.

A few seasons ago there were still fans saying he was as good as Kante.

Fred is the kind of player that looks good when we are bad and if we are good he stands out as being poor. Honestly one of the most flawed CMs I've ever watched. He has a poor first touch, can't pass or shoot but plays as if he has all of those qualities which is why he's so erratic.

Celebrating players like Fred for his football explains why standards are so low at the club now. Thankfully EtH is restoring what it means to be a Man Utd player. You can definitely give Fred credit for his hard work and character of never giving up, he definitely gave us all he could.

There weren't, let's be honest.

 

[zaafi]

First paragraph is irrelevant drivel as RvP going to Turkey under a completely different set of circumstances to Fred isn’t relevant here. You’re getting mad, as is usual on here, about something no one has said.

It pretty difficult to be ‘wrong’ in a debate of opinion of an internet forum buddy but you’re having a great crack at it.

30 year old Harry Kane just moved to Bayern for €100mil & we have numerous examples in recent years of players 29 & up moving for fees similar/bigger to that of Fred’s - if the interest was there in the main leagues of Europe he’d be playing there infact if he were half as good as some of you claim EtH would just keep him.

You say teams plan strategically & for the future, the fact that Fred doesn’t fit in to either answers your own rather ludicrous post in itself. No club in a major league sees Fred as part of it present or future plans.

I’d suggest you read what is written instead of getting yourself upset.

If you're going to go by opinion by its definition, then no, your subjective claim that Fred is shit can't be proven right or wrong.

This is not how football transfers work, though. You're assuming that if only one club are interested in a player, then he's not a good player. There is only one Saudi club interested in bringing in Verratti. We haven't even heard of any clubs linked to Neymar, despite PSG publically putting him out on the market. Kanté signed for a Saudi club, who was the only club showing interest. So, tell me something. Are these players shit?

Of course Fred doesn't fit into PL teams planning for the future, but that doesn't mean he has been shit throughout for us. How does that answer "my ludicrous post"?

And to add a note: Fulham were interested in signing Fred.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He’s over 30 years old mate. Context matters mate.

Someone says Fred is a good player.

Your argument is "Yeah but he didn't get brought for as much as Harry Kane!"

I'd say that's lacking an awful lot of context.

Also regarding the tone of your response. Something about Fred turns some of you lot absolutely mental and makes you speak like petulant kids. It's genuienly strange. You've got your wish, he isn't here anymore, be happy.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

There weren't, let's be honest.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/kante-or-fred.453699/

@El Jefe

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Someone says Fred is a good player.

That isn’t exactly what was said though.

I’m all for a good debate but don’t be disingenuous cause your one liner fell short.

The point made was that age plays a major factor, I gave an example, yes an outlier, that age isn’t something that automatically writes a player off.

Do better.

 

[zaafi]

Someone says Fred is a good player.

Your argument is "Yeah but he didn't get brought for as much as Harry Kane!"

I'd say that's lacking an awful lot of context.

Also regarding the tone of your response. Something about Fred turns some of you lot absolutely mental and makes you speak like petulant kids. It's genuienly strange. You've got your wish, he isn't here anymore, be happy.

It's embarrassing. Imagine hating a player for not being a great midfielder, despite being one of the hardest workers in the team, never complaining and always ready to give his best. They genuinely get angry just by reading his name, and flip out when someone suggests he's had decent periods for us. Trash supporters.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

That isn’t exactly what was said though.

I’m all for a good debate but don’t be disingenuous cause your one liner fell short.

The point made was that age plays a major factor, I gave an example, yes an outlier, that age isn’t something that automatically writes a player off.

Do better.

You're so wound up by this, it's astounding!

Nothing failed, you're just being intentionally obtuse by even mentioning Harry Kane.

Harry Kane is the second best striker in the world. As such he is so good that Bayern saw past his age and still paid a big fee.

If you are trying to claim that a player being 30 won't typically drop their transfer value then I'd suggest you are quite obviously incorrect. Kane's fee would have probably been double if he was 24.