Fred is one of the most underrated players in England

kiristao said:
The hate Carrick got on the CAF was just ridiculous. It was only after he retired that people really started to appreciate him
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Anyone hating on Carrick is beyond clueless. The only constant in our midfield in the clubs most successful period ever.

Imagine Carrick at his peak in this side. Would transform the midfield entirely.
 
Bwuk said:
Anyone hating on Carrick is beyond clueless. The only constant in our midfield in the clubs most successful period ever.

Imagine Carrick at his peak in this side. Would transform the midfield entirely.
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Yup. He would be the first name on the team sheet. No doubt about that.

Edit: I often think coaches like Carrick who were super talented players must find it incredibly frustrating to work with players who are levels below what they could do.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yup. He would be the first name on the team sheet. No doubt about that.

Edit: I often think coaches like Carrick who were super talented players must find it incredibly frustrating to work with players who are levels below what they could do.
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Is Fred’s shooting better/worse than Carrick?
 
MikeeMike said:
Is Fred’s shooting better/worse than Carrick?
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Worse by the biggest distance I can physically describe. Carrick only shot when it was ‘on’ and it rarely ended up row Z.

Without checking I would say most of his goals for us were probably long range. He wasn’t a specialist by any means but much better than Fred.
 
MikeeMike said:
Is Fred’s shooting better/worse than Carrick?
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Fred can press and run faster than Carrick.

That’s literally it. Carrick is miles ahead of him as a footballer, it’s not even close. Fred would be lucky to make the bench for the majority of the sides Carrick played in.
 
croadyman said:
He would look better alongside a proper DM who is good on the ball but then we lack creativity without Pogba
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What on earth would be the point of someone as technically woeful as Fred next to a DM? What would he possibly offer except taking up a space on the field that could be filled by someone who can create and score goals.
 
What is going on with the Carrick comparisons? Comparing one of our most technically and tactically sound midfielders with Fred?

While we’re at it lets compare Dan James to Giggs, or Lindelof to Ferdinand...
 
Judas said:
What on earth would be the point of someone as technically woeful as Fred next to a DM? What would he possibly offer except taking up a space on the field that could be filled by someone who can create and score goals.
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I would rather he was just a backup and we had Pogba alongside a new DM but just don't think it will happen
 
kiristao said:
The hate Carrick got on the CAF was just ridiculous. It was only after he retired that people really started to appreciate him
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I think that was during the back end of the 11/12 season that people appreciated him more but especially the 12/13 season where he was by far the best midfielder in the league that year. Had a very good first year with Van Gaal too.

Prior to that he was a good player but he was never elite at that time- we used to chop and change a lot in the midfield in those days, and It was never a surprise to see anyone of those midfielders left out. He was also outshone by Scholes, Fletcher and Giggs in various seasons between 06-11.
 
Litch said:
Hmmmm.......but the last time I looked he is playing for a team that's second in the league? Don't understand how fans comment on things that we don't know, yet seem to offer a factual view on things that we don't. Not sure why there seem to be a fixation about Fred when aside from Bruno and Shaw, there a questions about nearly every other player. He is what he is, just seems to be the scapegoat for teams current form causes he not playing well (amongst others) too....
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Probably because some of those question marks are question marks themselves. It says more about the poster than the player. For example people who dont rate AWB and cant give him credit and think hes a question mark. Thats not on him, thats on you.

However with Fred we a few midfielders who are different to him, but have performed better than him in the same position. McTominay and Pogba. Matic has had certain games where hes come in and done well. And then Fred has obviously had his own matches where he's done above his average performance. But overall, other than a lot of running and good pressing numbers Fred leaves a fair bit to be desired in his role
 
Carrick was unbelievable I can’t even believe people are mentioning Fred in the same breath as him. I’ve slated Fred for months in here and often been told to shut up. He’s so average it’s untrue. The only thing I’d say he has is effort, but put me in the starting 11 and I’d give you effort. He’s one of the worst Brazilian players I’ve ever seen. 0 flare to his game, can’t head pass or shoot. Our recruitment is shocking half the time we just never seem to get it right.
 
MikeeMike said:
Is Fred’s shooting better/worse than Carrick?
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That's like asking who's better at crossing the ball, Bebe or Solskjaer?

One has proved repeatedly that he can't do it, the other is not well known for it but when called upon, is surprisingly proficient at it.
 
kiristao said:
The hate Carrick got on the CAF was just ridiculous. It was only after he retired that people really started to appreciate him
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You also have to keep in mind how high the standards were back then. People had from Robson to Keane to Scholes. The club was used to elite midfielders at the time and Carrick was a definite step down although still an excellent footballer. Now that we as a club have not just taken a step down but fallen off a cliff, Carrick himself looks like a towering figure we wish we had. Which is fair, as for most clubs he is absolutely that - excellent player.
 
I like Fred’s tenacity, which is not one of the first characteristics when you think of our other players, but he’s woeful beyond all belief in the last third. Solid squad man who’s a net plus for us, but he should never be mentioned in the same sentence as Carrick.
 
I actually dislike watching him, which sounds a bit harsh, but I think he holds us back, he's so frustrating to watch, and just makes me nervous due to how reckless he is, both on the ball and when making daft challenges usually on the edge of our box. He'll do something great, a brilliant interception putting us into a great position to attack, then the next thing he does with the ball will be absolutely woeful.

We massively need an upgrade. People go on about Effort FC but he's probably the biggest example of it, he clearly gives a feck and puts a shift in and I love that aspect, but his actual qualities are so limited.
 
Fred is the most improved player under Ole in my opinion. He’s done well, however, if we want to win things, we need an upgrade. In the middle of the park, we need a ball winner (a DM) and a player next to them who can do this but also pass.
 
Ali Dia said:
I’m a fan of his but his recent form has been poor again. It’s harder to defend. People will say that’s what he always plays like but there have been patches where he’s almost been a one man midfield press behind Bruno and that would be impossible to keep up in every game. It’s not easy on the eye but it’s effective.
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Def been poor over the last month or so but his game and his profile with some fans bit like Martial and Pogs, the vultures are always circling in wait for 'I told you so' coments.
 
Ekeke said:
Probably because some of those question marks are question marks themselves. It says more about the poster than the player. For example people who dont rate AWB and cant give him credit and think hes a question mark. Thats not on him, thats on you.

However with Fred we a few midfielders who are different to him, but have performed better than him in the same position. McTominay and Pogba. Matic has had certain games where hes come in and done well. And then Fred has obviously had his own matches where he's done above his average performance. But overall, other than a lot of running and good pressing numbers Fred leaves a fair bit to be desired in his role
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I think he does more than pressing and running but I know that's what suits the narrative. I guess it's all about opinions but for some strange reason with Fred's 'running around' we win more games (or don't lose as many) when he plays. I think more than probably 90% of the players and he generally plays in the big games. For all the 'running around' he's probably got more MOTM performances than Scott, Matic and Pogs put together. People have amnesia and forget post Bruno when last season there was no Pogs, Matic and Scott for long periods. Last season when we were beating city home and away etc, have a look at Fred's ratings.

Not saying he's prime Carrick but I'm old enough to know Carrick wasn't rated by many fans and was seen as slow, safe and didn't tackle. He was an excellent player but the bar at Utd was set significantly higher then. To be honest, none of these players would start for Utd based on that period. It's always funny how players 'worth' is better assessed when they stop playing. Perception is a strange thing than fact and history has lots of Fred's often questioned due to their limitations but for managers and those that play with them, the teams not the same without them. For me, my focus is more on those players whose ceiling is significantly higher yet fail to turn up. If they did (or he) this discussion is very different and maybe Fred is on the bench.
 
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Cannot believe people are comparing Carrick and Fred. Heart in mouth every time Fred has the ball. Carrick could control a game, Fred can't pass.
 
Paolo Di Canio said:
Seem to remember one or two shots ib carricks whole career that didnt go over the bar
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That’s some memory you have. He barely ever shot, but going by Premier League stats he scored 24 times from 239 shots. Fred has 1 from 78. It was a ridiculous question.
 
Irwin99 said:
I think that was during the back end of the 11/12 season that people appreciated him more but especially the 12/13 season where he was by far the best midfielder in the league that year. Had a very good first year with Van Gaal too.

Prior to that he was a good player but he was never elite at that time- we used to chop and change a lot in the midfield in those days, and It was never a surprise to see anyone of those midfielders left out. He was also outshone by Scholes, Fletcher and Giggs in various seasons between 06-11.
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Yep Carrick was a good player....that’s all, he wasn’t a great player or misunderstood but he had a great season in 12/13. Other than that he was part of a team that had a word class keeper, 3 of the back 4 were world class, Giggs and Scholes were world class as were Ronaldo and Rooney. It wasn’t due to Carrick that we won so much. If we’d had 11 players on Carrick level we wouldn’t have. All those players were levels above him.
 
acnumber9 said:
That’s some memory you have. He barely ever shot, but going by Premier League stats he scored 24 times from 239 shots. Fred has 1 from 78. It was a ridiculous question.
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Safe is how I’d describe him. The shot in the 08 CL final, no conviction just hit the target straight at the keeper....big chance and he just hit the target, if only it fell to someone else.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Safe is how I’d describe him. The shot in the 08 CL final, no conviction just hit the target straight at the keeper....big chance and he just hit the target, if only it fell to someone else.
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I’d rather it fall to a player like Carrick than a player like Fred every day of the week. He generally tried to pass the ball in and he was by no means a great goal scorer, but he was much better at it than Fred.
 
acnumber9 said:
I’d rather it fall to a player like Carrick than a player like Fred every day of the week. He generally tried to pass the ball in and he was by no means a great goal scorer, but he was much better at it than Fred.
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Id agree with that. Fred’s zero composure.
 
Carrick is still a better midfielder than Fred and he retired 3 seasons ago.
 
Not sure where this Fred v Carrick has started from. Carrick is a far better player as is 90% of the players and 100% the manager at that time. Conversely at some point, he was 'the Fred' of the forum by many fans at that time too but the bar was set considerably higher. For Carricks ability, he didn't have than many England caps too. His game was probably better suited now than it was back then....no such thing as a CDM back then especially when 4 4 2 was the formation of choice, he couldn't get around the pitch, was one paced, didn't score enough goals or assists.
 
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acnumber9 said:
That’s some memory you have. He barely ever shot, but going by Premier League stats he scored 24 times from 239 shots. Fred has 1 from 78. It was a ridiculous question.
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At that rate he will score a handsome 3 goals in as much games. That’s good returns.
 
Bwuk said:
Fred can press and run faster than Carrick.

That’s literally it. Carrick is miles ahead of him as a footballer, it’s not even close. Fred would be lucky to make the bench for the majority of the sides Carrick played in.
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Better comparison would have been Fletcher for their high energy.
 
Litch said:
Not sure where this Fred v Carrick has started from. Carrick is a far better player as is 90% of the players and 100% the manager at that time. Conversely at some point, he was 'the Fred' of the forum by many fans at that time too but the bar was set considerably higher. For Carricks ability, he didn't have than many England caps too. His game was probably better suited now than it was back then....no such thing as a CDM back then especially when 4 4 2 was the formation of choice, he couldn't get around the pitch, was one paced, didn't score enough goals or assists.
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He didn’t get England caps because England had completely incompetent managers. England should of won a World Cup or Euros with the squad they had.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Better comparison would have been Fletcher for their high energy.
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Fletcher was a much better player.

a better comparison would be Djemba x 2.

obviously he was an utter flop, but so would Fred have been in that team, as the team and midfield in particular was far better than today.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Fletcher was a much better player.

a better comparison would be Djemba x 2.

obviously he was an utter flop, but so would Fred have been in that team, as the team and midfield in particular was far better than today.
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Both Djemba and Fred are paint guns, whilst Fletcher one would would say an AK.
 
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