Ten Hag has McT, Sabitzer and Mainoo (OK, that's a stretch) and still starts Fred.
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Only because Eriksen is out with injury is he starting every game. Have a look at his minutes played up to that point.
Again it's a lack of options because he's probably just better than McT, Mainoo is a kid and Sabitzer is only in the door so is not fully up to speed.
Sabitzer was enough "up to speed" to play vs Liverpool, as well as start league and Cup games. It is fairly clear to me that Ten Hag prefers Fred over Sabitzer.
But not over Eriksen. ETH dropped both him amd McT first chance he got. Does that not tell you something?
He's being forced to play him now because he has no other options, Eriksen is injured, McT is shite, Mainoo is a kid and Sabitzer hasn't been in the door long enough to prove a case for himself.
Eriksen is the buildup CM Ten Hag needs, that's clear. He also isn't the ideal player (Frenkie) but we are where we are. In the absence of Eriksen, Ten Hag clearly prefers Fred over all other alternatives. Including Sabitzer, who came from Bayern and is highly regarded.
The disrespect Fred gets is astonishing and completely disconnected from reality. He is a key part of this Manchester United squad, as well as previous versions under former managers. On top of being a regular starter in the Brazil national team.
The fact that you don't like him and, I assume, his style, is more of a "you" problem than a Fred problem.
Also, notice how my arguments are just facts.
Agree 100%, he can look good with all the high energy and good attitude. But if we were playing Seville or similar and we’re waiting ages to get the ball back these mistakes would stand out more. He is also regularly out of position- again it was not an issue last night when whole team played well and opponents were limited.
I know there were other changes at the same time but I thought our shape and control was much more solid after he came off.
Just look at his time on the pitch before and after Eriksen was injured. Is that what you would expect to see a key player play?
It's quite clear from that it's not just me that doesn't like him. Being the best of a bad lot doesn't make him a key player.
Here's Eriksen's play time in the league this season:
Here's Fred's:
As you can see, Fred is called upon to fit any holes in the squad.
Does that mean Ten Hag doesn't trust him? If you ask me, he is the "go to guy" when there is a problem that needs fixing.
Here's Eriksen's play time in the league this season:
Here's Fred's:
As you can see, Fred is called upon to fit any holes in the squad.
Does that mean Ten Hag doesn't trust him? If you ask me, he is the "go to guy" when there is a problem that needs fixing.
Perfect, because this is pretty much what I said.
He saw feck all playing time when Eriksen was fully fit and was given minutes here and there to be the fresh legs, again the other options are worse so it stands to reason you'd pick the best of a bad bunch to fill that role.
Since Eriksen got injured against Reading ETH has had to play him more than he wants to. He's played as many 90 mins since than he did for the first 5 months of the season.
Like I said, ETH clearly doesn't want to use him, his hand has been forced by injury and lack of alternatives.
Wouldn't swap him. Great player to have in the squad. Reckon he's knockin on the door for a permanent place in starting 11.
There is no way Fred should be in the permanent starting 11. He is not good enough on the ball to warrant a long term place in the starting 11.
We need someone who is capable of passing the ball to a team mate on a regular basis not 50/50 chance, which is what Fred gives you.
People dont realise but Fred causes alot of our attacks to break down because of either his poor first touch or a poor pass.
That is not really what you said though:
He is definitely good enough for Ten Hag to play him (instead of the players mentioned before) before and after Eriksen's injury.
Of course he has played more after Eriksen's injury. We only have space for 3 midfielders in our tactical setup.
Yesterday was an unusual game for him. His passing was very good while he was a lot less good at all the stuff he usually excels at.
Which you have done and it's proved my point.
If he was good enough for ETH he would have started more games and played more minutes up Jan 28th. Since then he's played more 90s than he did from Aug - Jan.
ETH dropped him as a starter as soon as he could. He's only back in the team now because of injury and lack of options.
You're in a wrong place then.
Ok we got it, you don't like Fred
Also, we all are happy that its ETH is in charge, instead of a poster who decided to only look at the downsides and nitpick every little mistake the player do to inmediately label him as droppable
Squad depth is a thing, you know? And having players with a great engine is a good feature seek by managers like ETH and even SAF, even though they don't have Xavi's passing
So yeah, keep complaining. Liverpool game aside, we're on a great momentum with the best record in europe after the world cup, and Fred is a key piece for our current form, may he stay with us for many years to come
5 years and I still don't think he's good enough. Is that allowed? I don't have to like him, I never have seen him as good enough and I never will.
And if you look at his appearances this season up to Eriksen got injured, it would seem that ETH kind of sees it the same way.
You know we can't have only 11 players in the squad, right? They can't all start every game.
His first summer ETH buys two new centre midfielders.
One of them gets injured and he brings in a 3rd CM in Jan.
It doesn't scream him having confidence in the options that were already here.
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yet still he rose to the occasion but you can't see it
He's obviously not good enough for any serious team.
He has great energy and stamina and ball winning abilities but that's about it.
He's passing can be atrocious. Even last night he did another terrible pass
Clearly ETH understand the importance of squad depth. It would be retarded to have Xavi and Iniesta in your team and then don't sign anyone else wouldn't it.
Since Eriksen got injured, Fred has been the chosen one to play on his spot, and he has delivered.
No one is saying that Fred is the ultimate best central midfielder in the world. But most appreciate is current form and what he brings to the team, he's been one of our best players recently but some posters decided to keep criticizing him and complain that he's not kante or something.
Shock horror player makes a bad pass. Sack him on the spot!
But ETH didn't just buy players to add depth. He brought in two top class CM's to start.
I think he's like top 20% amongst midfielders in Europe for goals and assists.
Each to their own, I guess.
Even Casemiro isnt immune to doing a terrible pass. Fred is a decent enough player.
think he is fine as a squad option, but def shouldnt be a consistent starter.
Fred? He's got 14 goals in 5 years.
I don’t know how many assists but it must be a surprisingly high number to get him in the top 20% in europe.
Well, @Olecurls99 was correct. He is in the top 20% in non-penalty goals, non-penalty xG, non-penalty xG + xAssists
Purely on assists, he is in the top 35%, but that says more about his teammates than Fred, because his xAssists puts him in top 21%
P.S. The above is "Player compared to positional peers in Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL over the last 365 days"
Totally agree with your posts today, very well said and i too see all of thos. He's had a few better games of late but doesn't have a place in our team if we're being serious challengers of silverware. I've gave up on the Fred thread because he has his loyal fantasy who turn a blind eye to the likes of last night and worse. Yet any performance above 6 is blown way out of proportion because they are such fans. If you enjoy this continue on but do yourself a favour and avoid this thread. It will only leave you bamboozled
Well, @Olecurls99 was correct. He is in the top 20% in non-penalty goals, non-penalty xG, non-penalty xG + xAssists
Purely on assists, he is in the top 35%, but that says more about his teammates than Fred, because his xAssists puts him in top 21%
P.S. The above is "Player compared to positional peers in Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL over the last 365 days"
See that middle bit there about passing.
That's his problem and that's where he is a huge problem for Utd and always has been.
Did you even feel how you moved the posts while having this back and forth?
The point was about Fred being productive in G+A, which he is.
Fred is not supposed to be a barometer midfielder with high passing stats. He is a pressing hound dog who creates transition opportunities high up the pitch and covers an incredibly large part of the field.
Proud as punch
Well, @Olecurls99 was correct. He is in the top 20% in non-penalty goals, non-penalty xG, non-penalty xG + xAssists
Purely on assists, he is in the top 35%, but that says more about his teammates than Fred, because his xAssists puts him in top 21%
P.S. The above is "Player compared to positional peers in Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL over the last 365 days"
Love that Fred
Are you choosing to ignore the other stuff?
I'm not great with stats. I legit don't know what xG means, nor do I really want to.
But a quick search of actual figures shows he has 8 goals and 6 assists in his Premier League career.
If that puts him in the top 20% amongst all Europe's no.8's they all need to seriously up their game.
Fred is a great squad player, who can give you effective play as a starter at times, but shouldn't be a nailed on starting XI player. It really isn't that difficult to understand. ETH signing midfielders isn't purely on Fred, it's an indictment of the overall state of our midfield at the time. Before the summer window our options were Fred, McTominay, VdB. Any manager with a clue would have added CMs.
Do I think ETH wants Fred as a starting XI CM? No, I do not, but I do believe he values him as a squad player and was used him in that capacity to great effect when Eriksen was still fit.
Do I think ETH wants Fred as a starting XI CM? No, I do not, but I do believe he values him as a squad player and was used him in that capacity to great effect when Eriksen was still fit.
If you look back at my first post. I mentioned his passing being quite shite.
His ability on the ball is just not good enough. You can be a ball presser and still be able to pass the ball well, like Fletcher was and Park plenty of others that can do it too. It's basically just paying simple attention to how and where to pass the ball and he's just not very good at it.
But is he? In the Prem its 1.2 assists per season. Goals in premier league it's 1.6 per season. How many per season would be unproductive?
How has Fred suddenly become regarded as productive in terms of assists and goals. A strange one.
Notice who is the top midfielder
It sucks when facts come and ruin everything, doesn't it?
That's why the stats are showing percentiles in comparison to his peers. And yes, he is.
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