[Lyng]

Yep. If only he'd covered the space and not moved those yards towards Robertson.

Although Varane could have shown matey inside.

And Dalot, I don't even know where he was in the scenario.

Complete defensive collaps. But yes I would probably have kept Fred on and then swapped Wout for Sabitzer.

 

[Ekeke]

Yep. If only he'd covered the space and not moved those yards towards Robertson.

Although Varane could have shown matey inside.

And Dalot, I don't even know where he was in the scenario.

Dalot was confronting the first threat which was Robertson who collected the ball wide left. He came inside and Dalot went with him, Dalot did leave too much space which helped Robertson allowing him to play the pass to Gakpo. But yeah the team should have dealt with it, starting with Fred dealing with the pass

 

[Litch]

Blaming Fred for the goal is bloody ridiculous.

 

[Ekeke]

Blaming Fred for the goal is bloody ridiculous.

He's one of the people to blame. Our wingers are never doing a job going all the way back, the midfielders fall in to cover. Thats one of the most important jobs of our midfielders. So yes he's at fault, but so is Varane and you can argue that Dalot having been drawn inside by Robertson shouldnt allow him to play a pass. Some fullbacks might even have just fouled him to reset the team.

But what you absolutely cant do is say Fred didnt make a mistake. Thats part of his role and he messed it up.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Like the rest of our team, lost almost every duel and 50/50 ball today.

Didn't think he was particularly bad though. Others were much worse

 

[AneRu]

Dalot was confronting the first threat which was Robertson who collected the ball wide left. He came inside and Dalot went with him, Dalot did leave too much space which helped Robertson allowing him to play the pass to Gakpo. But yeah the team should have dealt with it, starting with Fred dealing with the pass

Our defensive organization for that goal was just all over the place. We had Varane with Nunez and what was Dalot doing stood over there, infield and surrendering the whole flank to Liverpool? When the initial press failed Antony wasn't on his man, just lost focus and then Fred also took up a position of no tactical importance and got caught in two minds whether to press or cover and did neither. Varane got bit, it happens and the flood gates got opened.

 

[lsd]

We were so poor as a team that Fred actually gets away with not being the worst.

He still shouldn't be starting though if we are serious about ever getting back to the top

 

[ti vu]

His mistake started this whole nightmare.

Disagree. Copy paste from our own post in Dalot thread.

"
Liverpool built from the back, with Alison even went out of his box to make play. Antony was in the advance pressing position like Rashford and Bruno where they position in half space to press if Liverpool passing between their CBs and their deeper midfielders. Dalot took initiative to track Robertson. Whether Dalot was wrong by not being close enough to Robertson is up to debate.

Our midfield marked man for man during Liverpool build up for the first goal. Casimero followed Elliot, Fred tracked Henderson and picked up Gakpo when he dropped into this big space our midfield in front of the backline. Weghorst tracked Fabinho.

Liverpool did very well using Alison as extra man for the build up. Our players, our pressing tactic got found out, flat footed. Alisson under no pressure, played that passed to Robertson. Gakpo had time to move wide unmarked, while Robertson dribbled infield forced Fred to stop following Gakpo and station centrally instead.

IMO Klopp outsmarted ETH tactically, not only here but the whole game. Liverpool was able to find way to bypass out pressing. Not only this instance, but many time throughout the first half, let alone the slaughter in second half. Weghorst not a real midfielder, and lack of pace means that we happen to leave big space in midfield, especially when our other midfielders got their hand busy. Weghorst didn't have the instinct of a midfielder to know when to stop man marking and go to cover space in midfielder. He was easily got pulled out of the chess board by Fabinho movement, when we would have benefited from some help to let Fred stay with Gakpo. It's a systematic error leading to the first goal, which based on personnel issue (Weghorst midfield role)."

A lot of finger pointing for this goal. What I see is a bad game plan against an opponent well capable to punish us, and for a game they highly likely turn up with cup final performance. I don't think Fred is that bad this game. Our pressing game got broken so no need for a pressing machine. Taking Weghorst off, ETH might have tried to compensate the lack of height with McTominay because just earlier Konate (lose Martinez, his marker) gave us a scare when we don't have enough height to man mark all their aerial threat. Didn't work out well afterward.

 

[Milo2035]

He was our best player actually.

 

[Lyng]

Disagree. Copy paste from our own post in Dalot thread.

"
Liverpool built from the back, with Alison even went out of his box to make play. Antony was in the advance pressing position like Rashford and Bruno where they position in half space to press if Liverpool passing between their CBs and their deeper midfielders. Dalot took initiative to track Robertson. Whether Dalot was wrong by not being close enough to Robertson is up to debate.

Our midfield marked man for man during Liverpool build up for the first goal. Casimero followed Elliot, Fred tracked Henderson and picked up Gakpo when he dropped into this big space our midfield in front of the backline. Weghorst tracked Fabinho.

Liverpool did very well using Alison as extra man for the build up. Our players, our pressing tactic got found out, flat footed. Alisson under no pressure, played that passed to Robertson. Gakpo had time to move wide unmarked, while Robertson dribbled infield forced Fred to stop following Gakpo and station centrally instead.

IMO Klopp outsmarted ETH tactically, not only here but the whole game. Liverpool was able to find way to bypass out pressing. Not only this instance, but many time throughout the first half, let alone the slaughter in second half. Weghorst not a real midfielder, and lack of pace means that we happen to leave big space in midfield, especially when our other midfielders got their hand busy. Weghorst didn't have the instinct of a midfielder to know when to stop man marking and go to cover space in midfielder. He was easily got pulled out of the chess board by Fabinho movement, when we would have benefited from some help to let Fred stay with Gakpo. It's a systematic error leading to the first goal, which based on personnel issue (Weghorst midfield role)."

A lot of finger pointing for this goal. What I see is a bad game plan against an opponent well capable to punish us, and for a game they highly likely turn up with cup final performance. I don't think Fred is that bad this game. Our pressing game got broken so no need for a pressing machine. Taking Weghorst off, ETH might have tried to compensate the lack of height with McTominay because just earlier Konate (lose Martinez, his marker) gave us a scare when we don't have enough height to man mark all their aerial threat. Didn't work out well afterward.

Robertsons pass wasnt that great actually. Watch it again. It only became dangerous because Fred moved out of position.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mistake for the first goal but not a huge one. And he was a one man midfield today given Casemiero and Bruno were appalling

 

[ti vu]

Robertsons pass wasnt that great actually. Watch it again. It only became dangerous because Fred moved out of position.

You should watch the whole sequence at least from when TAA was pressed by Bruno and pass back. Then you see how our team set up the pressing, but Alisson step out of his penalty box to make play which open the pitch.

You're asking Fred to continue tracking Gakpo when Gakpo run to winger position. But if he did so there is a big space in front of our defensive line. Where is the third midfielder, why he kept tracking Fabinho when Fabinho and Henderson dropped deep and the ball bypassed our midfield?

Fred had a lot of decision to make. Fred couldn't continue to track Gakpo, which led to him trying to cut the pass, but he couldn't control Gakpo movement (behind his back) and Robertson passing intention. It's not a mistake. It's trying but beaten. Varane could have done better.

The issue is where the tactic is wrong, using the wrong personnel for the job (Weghorst), confusing our own players.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

He was our best player actually.

No. He was hooked for a reason and it wasn’t because he was good.

 

[ti vu]

Mistake for the first goal but not a huge one. And he was a one man midfield today given Casemiero and Bruno were appalling

Bruno shouldn't be considered a midfielder when he was positioned that wide left for most the time until Fred and Weghorst got taken off.

The one in question is Weghorst. He was assigned to mark Fabinho, but he doesn't know to play midfielder properly, so he just blindly follow Fabinho everywhere. Leaving gap and unable to help our midfield battle, when Liverpool can bypass our pressing.

 

[Lyng]

You should watch the whole sequence at least from when TAA was pressed by Bruno and pass back. Then you see how our team set up the pressing, but Alisson step out of his penalty box to make play which open the pitch.

You're asking Fred to continue tracking Gakpo when Gakpo run to winger position. But if he did so there is a big space in front of our defensive line. Where is the third midfielder, why he kept tracking Fabinho when Fabinho and Henderson dropped deep and the ball bypassed our midfield?

Fred had a lot of decision to make. Fred couldn't continue to track Gakpo, which led to him trying to cut the pass, but he couldn't control Gakpo movement (behind his back) and Robertson passing intention. It's not a mistake. It's trying but beaten. Varane could have done better.

The issue is where the tactic is wrong, using the wrong personnel for the job (Weghorst), confusing our own players.

He should simply stay put and cut the pass instead of moving forward and making the pass possible.
Weghorst marked out Fabinho like he was supposed to. Fred doesn't read the play, and hard to blame him since that's not something he does.
Usually Casemiro will direct him but I think Case wasn't fit.
We desperately need more brains in midfield.

 

[ti vu]

He should simply stay put and cut the pass instead of moving forward and making the pass possible.
Weghorst marked out Fabinho like he was supposed to. Fred doesn't read the play, and hard to blame him since that's not something he does.
Usually Casemiro will direct him but I think Case wasn't fit.
We desperately need more brains in midfield.

Fred didn't move forward. He was anticipating Robertson passing the ball out wide to Gakpo. Gakpo was behind, and in Fred's blind spot. So when Gakpo decided to run inside and Robertson played through ball, it's a back breaker for Fred. He slipped when he reacted toward the pass direction.

I am talking about the whole sequence. How Dalot needed to leave Gakpo to mark Robertson. Fred saw a free Gakpo, so he had to track him, but stopped mid way because the midfield gap, which allowed Gakpo to live freely in Fred blind spot. When Alison had the ball before his pass to Robertson, Weghorst and Fred were about the same position horizontally. Weghorst then just disappeared follow Fabinho blindly, leaving our team in awkward positions. Under optimal condition, you would expect Fred to be close by Gakpo with Weghorst filling in the position in front of the defense.

The point being many players can be blamed for this goal. However, the underling issue is the tactic. Losing one goal was not the cause of the collapse. It is a product of the dysfunctional midfield based on hipster tactic.

Another example is, the second goal could have been easily snubbed out. Weghorst was assigned to man marked Fabinho. What happened in the build up for the second goal Is Weghorst couldn't predict Fabinho movement. He just followed, reacted to Fabinho. So when the ball being played to Fabinho, Weghorst was not close enough to Fabinho, he had to stretch but still failed to intercept the pass. Fabinho was able to get the ball, and continue that sequence lead to Nunez goal. Weghorst in this situation is not a mistake as Fred for the first goal. He was asked to do a job he's not suitable for and Liverpool happened to exploit it.

 

[Kingofwinners]

It’s great that he is upbeat and enjoys the game. But when I saw him laughing and smiling coming out for the second half it really annoyed me, just seemed wrong given we were 1:0 down at Anfield. We can debate how much individual players were at fault for the goal, but surely Fred can’t be happy with his part in it. I know it’s a polar opposite but can you imagine Keane’s face coming out the tunnel in the same position.

In any sport, golf, boxing, football the very best show pure focus and concentration when they are under pressure. Fred has had a great run of games but he’s as much to blame as anyone for yesterday.

 

[Freak]

It’s probably easy to say now on hindsight but we should have had Sabitzer starting over Fred. Fred runs and works hard but in games like this you need someone who wins his duels, wins his 50-50s, wins the second balls and is generally composed when in possession. Fred is none of these

 

[Bwuk]

We should have played Sabitzer with Casemiro, and had Fred higher up the park pressing Fabinho.

 

[Lecland07]

It’s probably easy to say now on hindsight but we should have had Sabitzer starting over Fred. Fred runs and works hard but in games like this you need someone who wins his duels, wins his 50-50s, wins the second balls and is generally composed when in possession. Fred is none of these

We conceded most of our goals after Fred came off, though.

It should have been both, to be honest. Fernandes has played too many games since the world cup - he is running on fumes now.

 

[Lyng]

We should have played Sabitzer with Casemiro, and had Fred higher up the park pressing Fabinho.

Yeah in hindsight that was the play. And Rashford on the left to harass Trent.

 

[Kostov]

I think Casemiro was worse than him but of course we can't replace him.

 

[Litch]

He's one of the people to blame. Our wingers are never doing a job going all the way back, the midfielders fall in to cover. Thats one of the most important jobs of our midfielders. So yes he's at fault, but so is Varane and you can argue that Dalot having been drawn inside by Robertson shouldnt allow him to play a pass. Some fullbacks might even have just fouled him to reset the team.

But what you absolutely cant do is say Fred didnt make a mistake. Thats part of his role and he messed it up.

All goals inevitably are based on a mistake but I wouldn’t look at that goal and say he contribution is anything more than a factor. Whilst Im not defending Fred, Cas and Bruno were shocking too.

 

[RedOrange]

Our defensive organization for that goal was just all over the place. We had Varane with Nunez and what was Dalot doing stood over there, infield and surrendering the whole flank to Liverpool? When the initial press failed Antony wasn't on his man, just lost focus and then Fred also took up a position of no tactical importance and got caught in two minds whether to press or cover and did neither. Varane got bit, it happens and the flood gates got opened.

Both Fred and Dalot did what they were supposed to do. Dalot followed Robertson because he was closer and Fred tucked in to cover Dalot. Fred needed to either mark Gakpo tighter or cover the more dangerous space that Robertson ended up passing the ball into, but Fred doesn't seem to have that kind of defensive nous. He moved vaguely to where he was supposed to go and watched the ball go past him into the more dangerous area he probably should have moved to.

I think this is why Fred looks excellent sometimes and awful other times. He's very quick and plays with energy, so if you ask him to man-mark a specific player he can do that all day, but he struggles to make good decisions when he's trying to defend an area or a coordinated attack. He'll run all the way back to defend a counter and then fail to cover anyone, he'll drop back to cover a defender but not cover the right space, etc.

 

[Irwin99]

Never stopped running. Guy is a machine.

 

[Lost bear]

Never stopped running. Guy is a machine.

Not at his best tonight but did ok. I love the guy, personally.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Man looks gassed.

 

[Lost bear]

Man looks gassed.

Yes. Hardly surprising. I hope Erik finds a way to rest him. Very important part of this team.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yes. Hardly surprising. I hope Erik finds a way to rest him. Very important part of this team.

Indeed, he could do with a rest. Maybe Sabitzer might come in against Southampton.

 

[Lost bear]

Indeed, he could do with a rest. Maybe Sabitzer might come in against Southampton.

Yes. I’m sure the manager is aware that he plays with such a high level of energy, and that he might need to conserve him a little. That sounds like a plan.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

As ever, Fred is at his best closer to the oppo box than his own. It took us years to figure that out- Ole's persistence in playing him as a DM was ultimately the biggest mistake he made.

 

[lex talionis]

As ever, Fred is at his best closer to the oppo box than his own. It took us years to figure that out- Ole's persistence in playing him as a DM was ultimately the biggest mistake he made.

It was definitely one of Ole's biggest mistakes. The bigger mistake was not objecting to the acquisition of Ronaldo, but we can all appreciate that at the time the marketing department controlled everything at OT, including squad management -- possibly even in in-game substitutions as well.

 

[The Purley King]

Not his best game but the effort he puts in is second to none.
He must be exhausted. Decent showing.

 

[Oranges038]

I don't care what anyone says. He's just not very good, running around and being a nuisance is just not enough. He ruined the flow of countless attacks last night with his shite passing.

Can't wait for him to be moved on. Hopefully happens this summer while he still has some value in the transfsr market.

 

[georgipep]

I don't care what anyone says. He's just not very good, running around and being a nuisance is just not enough. He ruined the flow of countless attacks last night with his shite passing.

Can't wait for him to be moved on. Hopefully happens this summer while he still has some value in the transfsr market.

One thing is for sure: 3 Manchester United managers disagree with you.

 

[Oranges038]

One thing is for sure: 3 Manchester United managers disagree with you.

2 and a half have been and gone, and yet he's still there.

If ETH persists with him, he'll probably outlast him too.

 

[Brightonian]

I don't care what anyone says. He's just not very good, running around and being a nuisance is just not enough. He ruined the flow of countless attacks last night with his shite passing.

Can't wait for him to be moved on. Hopefully happens this summer while he still has some value in the transfsr market.

Fully disagree, I thought his passing was broadly good yesterday; crisp, tidy, often incisive. He's improved as a passer of the ball significantly under ETH.

 

[Oranges038]

Fully disagree, I thought his passing was broadly good yesterday; crisp, tidy, often incisive. He's improved as a passer of the ball significantly under ETH.

Just before their goal he ruined the same attacking phase of play twice in the space of a few seconds with shite passes. One out wide behind Dalot and the second on he played into the middle to noone.

Second half he had several chances to play people in and just gave it away. There was one to Rashford where he had loads of room to hit the wing and just played it almost down the middle.

There were others but those stick out, it's something he does a lot. Some of his passing might technically be accurate and make it to the player but too often they are poorly weighted/overhit, to the wrong side/behind the player or to their wrong foot.

I honestly can't believe after 5 years, people still think he's good because he smiles and runs around a lot and seems like a good lad.

 

[georgipep]

2 and a half have been and gone, and yet he's still there.

If ETH persists with him, he'll probably outlast him too.

What does that tell you?

 

[Oranges038]

What does that tell you?

That they had no choice but to play him because of the very limited options available both at the club and in the transfer market. And sticking with him and McT was a large part of the reason the team played poorly and they lost their jobs.