I agree wholly apart from Pogba. I think his best role is as that attacking left player, but not really that, as he has the freedom to roam as he wants along with Bruno. Him and Bruno are our clear two best attacking players but both seem suited to a free role. Second half today Scott and Fred's performance allowed that and we flourished. I'd be looking for a Rice (who can hold down the defence part on his own) and a controller next to him (maybe a more mobile Carrick type) who allows us to play the system we did today but with Mason on the right and Marcus up top. I honestly think hat is the solution to Pogba not being an actual midfielder in the modern game. Then Scott and Fred would be ideal replacements from the bench or in games needing their skillset. For so long we've been wondering how to build a team around Pogba but I think it might be this. Thoughts?
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I agree wholly apart from Pogba. I think his best role is as that attacking left player, but not really that, as he has the freedom to roam as he wants along with Bruno. Him and Bruno are our clear two best attacking players but both seem suited to a free role. Second half today Scott and Fred's performance allowed that and we flourished. I'd be looking for a Rice (who can hold down the defence part on his own) and a controller next to him (maybe a more mobile Carrick type) who allows us to play the system we did today but with Mason on the right and Marcus up top. I honestly think hat is the solution to Pogba not being an actual midfielder in the modern game. Then Scott and Fred would be ideal replacements from the bench or in games needing their skillset. For so long we've been wondering how to build a team around Pogba but I think it might be this. Thoughts?
I’ve been continually saying how shit he is, so in the balance of fairness, the first half hour he was horrendous again. Passes going all over all the place.
The goal and afterwards he was much better. There were some really progressive moments where he was able to turn and play very good passes forward, taking 2/3 defending midfielders out of the game.
These are things that most top class midfielders do every game, but it was really noticeable that Fred managed it today.
The goal and afterwards he was much better. There were some really progressive moments where he was able to turn and play very good passes forward, taking 2/3 defending midfielders out of the game.
These are things that most top class midfielders do every game, but it was really noticeable that Fred managed it today.
I think it's too early to tell how successful it can be long term, and I think it was borne out of a combination of our injuries and our McFred midfield therefore I can't see us playing that formation with a full strength team, or against better opponents. However, it's important that we have the option to be tactically fluid and be capable of changing things up when necessary. So having the option of playing Pogba as the wide playmaker could certainly work out for us depending on the situation - I just don't think it's the long term solution.
Pogba does need freedom from defensive duties in order to be at his best, I couldn't agree more with that - a proper DM can assist with that though.
He wasn't perfect today and yes there are still parts of his game that needs to be ironed out. That said I believe he contributed more to this game than any other I've seen. I'm beginning to see his quality and what he actually brings to the table. His strength/quality is the way he keeps the ball moving out of defense to our forward players and even out to the flanks. He gets the momentum going which can be key to success especially on the counter. Today he got a goal which will be paramount for him in the coming games. Hope he kicks on from here. I mean you can't not like the guy!
I’d wait for him to actually win something before falling over yourself because he scored; he was a liability at points today which isn’t an anomaly.
His cult on here is the ilk we used to ridicule Arsenal fans for.
He was horrendous in the first half, then the goal and he went a level up in his performance, which helped the team of course and in general a very good outing at the end of the day.
His first half performance was a 1/10, no exaggeration. Second half much better obviously. A 7/10.
the thing with Fred is, he always looks and is busy. And that will always endear him to some fans. Even if he's playing 25 shocking passes in 10 mins, because he's always there, never really shies from a pass, tackle etc, it makes him look heavily involved and maybe that is mistaken for being a good performance.
the thing with Fred is, he always looks and is busy. And that will always endear him to some fans. Even if he's playing 25 shocking passes in 10 mins, because he's always there, never really shies from a pass, tackle etc, it makes him look heavily involved and maybe that is mistaken for being a good performance.
well that’s because he genuinely is involved all the time, he never hides.
the issue is sometimes he loses his head and gets scrappy, but when he does concentrate and find his rhythm he is fantastic. he’s proper jekyll and hyde, but when he gets it right he makes a huge difference.
i’d really like to see him trust himself more like with the 1st goal and just pop it around the box and get beyond the defensive line. that was a proper 90/00’s goal.
Not a big fan of Fred. But he did really well second half.
I will certainly criticise his passing and his general sloppiness. However, I won’t criticise his lack of finesse with his shooting, that’s just not him. Glad he scored today, but generally I don’t want to see him near the opposition box or him shooting.
It is what he did today compared to most other games. He not only scored from being the furthest forward but he was always pushing into the box and creating that extra man. Look at his forward runs in the second half. He was in around the box for the two other goals too. Normally he would not be in that position.
Does anyone know if he speaks Ukranian or Russian?
Does anyone know if he speaks Ukranian or Russian?
Hope he stops shooting from distance now that he got his goal from three yards out.
As Dickens would say:
Fred is a player who has the best of moments, and the worst of moments, times of good, and times of foolishness. The epoch of belief and the epoch of incredulity.
Fred is a player who has the best of moments, and the worst of moments, times of good, and times of foolishness. The epoch of belief and the epoch of incredulity.
Yeah, one of his best attribute is, he never hides. Always involved in everything and near both boxes. His stamina is unreal, runs all day and links up play all the time. Wish his touch is bit less erratic as players closes down his easily.
He was absolutely fantastic in the second half. Ran the show with his tenacity and quick progression of the ball. Added a lovely goal to sum it all up.
Him and Pogba work really well together I think, probably because Fred doesn't have to focus on creativity and just needs to pass it into Pogba or Bruno, while doing the dirty work himself.
Him and Pogba work really well together I think, probably because Fred doesn't have to focus on creativity and just needs to pass it into Pogba or Bruno, while doing the dirty work himself.
By Keane's standards, a good second half shouldn't balance out a poor first half. He was probably looking at the performance as a whole.
Its his first interview in English yesterday. Well done Fred!
Found it hilarious when he scored. Poor first half, good second half. I put him in the Lindelof category of being a likeable player I would keep at the club but an upgrade required if they want to challenge for major trophies.
Fred must think Ole must really like me when I'm so shite surrounded by all these players showing high quality on the ball, great passing etc yet it's me letting this team down from winning the title. Just look how great we were on Thursday when I wasn't in the team, and how did we get to second when I am?
Oh the irony, probably the best passage of one touch passing leading to a goal, and the lad that instigates it, with both feet, is the person who people say can't pass? Oh, the same person that made the most passes yesterday too. Oh, yep made some bad ones but believe it or not, Pogs and Bruno do that every week. Football everyone makes mistakes, just depends what you want to see or you choose to ignore. Fred is to blame for COVID, world wars, poverty, the financial crisis and world pollution. The irony is Ole doesn't think so and there are always those in football you never rate until you realise that they were not actually the problem. People might want Rice, but it is Scott who will be worried not Fred......
Haters will hate.....
Oh the irony, probably the best passage of one touch passing leading to a goal, and the lad that instigates it, with both feet, is the person who people say can't pass? Oh, the same person that made the most passes yesterday too. Oh, yep made some bad ones but believe it or not, Pogs and Bruno do that every week. Football everyone makes mistakes, just depends what you want to see or you choose to ignore. Fred is to blame for COVID, world wars, poverty, the financial crisis and world pollution. The irony is Ole doesn't think so and there are always those in football you never rate until you realise that they were not actually the problem. People might want Rice, but it is Scott who will be worried not Fred......
Haters will hate.....
Involved in all 3 goals and people still came in trying it. He’s alright but... FFS!
Someone else called his goal a tap in!
If that’s a tap in then ok fred is definitely shite because he played 1/2s with 2 different players on either foot and then set up a great chance for Cavani with his next touch and was there to bury the rebound when he missed. Tap in! Behave!
It was one of the best passages of play we've had this season, incredibly easy on the eye.Involved in all 3 goals and people still came in trying it. He’s alright but... FFS!
Someone else called his goal a tap in!
If that’s a tap in then ok fred is definitely shite because he played 1/2s with 2 different players on either foot and then set up a great chance for Cavani with his next touch and was there to bury the rebound when he missed. Tap in! Behave!
the most impressive thing about Fred is he did all this all while going back and being the main defensive tempo setter too. I think people don’t get him because he’s an unusual player. You see the press and the tackling and think oh ya but that’s his job, he’s ok at that, bit small maybe. Then the passing. Fast hard and searching on either foot and under pressure and loads played forward. Fine so he’s a 2 footed all action tempo setter? But then he goes forward and is involved most of our good play there too? If he can add even a few more goals to his already freakish output then he’d actually be amazing. He’s very similar to the likes of Rice Kante Fabinhio (all of whom would have been bystanders there yesterday) in defensive output but he absolutely buries them when it comes to going forward, pressing high and creative play. As I was saying to Pogue yesterday. You would actually need 2 players to do the same job fred is doing.
Maybe he’s spreading himself fairly thin and falling just short of bossing every position he finds himself in and that’s what people are constantly latching onto. I think he’s actually the perfect foil for Bruno and Pogba in games like this where we need to attack because he can do both well. He’s miles better than McT and Matic and I don’t know how everyone can’t see that by now. We are flat and disjointed any time fred is rested and it’s not a coincidence at this stage.
His passing and touch have let him down at times this season, quite erratic, I don't think anyone can really argue with that. I also don't think he's not his best form this season, he was much better in the last campaign I thought. If he can find last season's form, in this team, he can be an absolute force for us.
He was much better second half. The passing that lead to the goal with one touch stuff through the middle was great (thats what we need more off. He actually looked brazilian there).
Happy he got his goal.
He looks like two different people at times. One that cant even make passes (and before that goal he was shocking). But the things he does well in terms of recovering the ball is great. I do worry when he leaves his feet like when he got booked. His passing when he tries to go long is as bad as ive seen
Happy he got his goal.
He looks like two different people at times. One that cant even make passes (and before that goal he was shocking). But the things he does well in terms of recovering the ball is great. I do worry when he leaves his feet like when he got booked. His passing when he tries to go long is as bad as ive seen
Glad to see Fred turn it around in a match in which he was appalling in the first half. He seems to be a very likable person, good attitude and so forth. At times this season he's looked a real player but I can really only think of 3 or 4 stand out performances. He's usually just not very good. In the first half he addressed a high ball kicked out of their defense and played it straight out of play under no pressure. That side of Fred is what we see more often than the nimble 1-2s Zidane-like player slipping through their lines. Fred had a great second half against Spurs. Congrats Fred. I still don't think he's good enough to start for us.
That goal was like the goal against City in Charity shield, I mean the build up play.
It was not only the goal but his position when we scored all three goals. He was really forward. The funny thing I noticed was that it has been mentioned here time and again about his shooting and how he is always involved in the free kicks outside the box but he never takes it. Everyone knows it is Bruno who is going to take it but every time, he pretends he is going to take it. Who is he trying to fool? 
But I think one of these days he is going to take it.
But I think one of these days he is going to take it.
Agree. I've said it before and it may be a lazy comparison but in a different setup and coach, he has the tools to emulate Fernandinho's trajectory under Guardiola. Measured, technical tempo setter (not elite) and all around action base midfielder.
His form last season before the lockdown had me believe he should have been that third midfielder. Post lockdown, we blitzed teams due to our freshness and atheletic prowess with Matic/McTominay but when it came down to it, as shown in the Sevilla game and recently, he's just the best person we have currently.
He’s occasionally very loose but he works the hardest and he always attempts to speed up our play.
That beautiful passage of play leading up to his goal reminded me that he's Brazilian and there is some flair in him somewhere! In fairness though, I wish he could be our very own Dunga.
Just dawned upon me how similar he is to Ando.
Ando was great before coming to United. Came to United and somehow lost his shooting ability. He could carry the ball very well though.
Difference is Ando came as a 19/20 year old, from the Brazilian league. Fred came older and with European experience.
Ando was great before coming to United. Came to United and somehow lost his shooting ability. He could carry the ball very well though.
Difference is Ando came as a 19/20 year old, from the Brazilian league. Fred came older and with European experience.
Anderson was a lot better player, though.
Difference being Anderson wasn't a serious professional and Fred is, but played in a squad that could cover for his deficiencies.
Fred is an actual committed player.
There’s no valid comparison to Anderson. Both very different in most aspects (good and bad) except height.
Bollocks he was. Even McTominay is a better player than Anderson let alone Fred
Also fair.
There is no DM who can play alongside midfielders as defensively undisciplined as Pogba and Bruno and still hold their own against a top team. It's fine against the bottom half of the table, and Fred especially has shown he can do that already, but against the top 6 we will always need two defensively minded players if we play both Bruno and Pogba together. We have to get away from this idea that we can find a silver bullet in midfield, it is too much work for one player to cover the space they leave.
Firstly, your post implies that Bruno & Pogba do little or no part defensively, which simply isn't true comparative to other players who play their positions.
Secondly, I think we can all agree that when all players are fit, our best XI involves both Bruno & Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood & 1 of Martial & Cavani.
I think we're all also in agreement that neither Fred or McTominay are capable of taking up that extra CM position by themselves - they need each other to really excel.
So, if we continue to play both Fred & McTominay at the same time, it means sacrificing 1 attacking player and/or playing at least 1 player out of position to accommodate this.
Well against "the big 6" that may be all well and good, but we haven't really struggled against the big 6. We've struggled to create chances, score and take advantage of teams that we should've beaten, especially Arsenal (0-0,0-1), Chelsea (0-0,0-0) & Liverpool (0-0). We're better than those 3 teams this season and next season we need to establish ourselves as one of the top 6 teams that is feared, and teams expect to lose against.
But, I have no problem setting up defensively against the top 6. The problem is, that represents only 5 other teams in the league, you can add in Leicester to that equation and make it 6.
How should we set up against the remaining 13 teams in the league? They set themselves up to sit behind the ball and park 2 flanks of players across the pitch against us.
Surely, you're not suggesting we play 2 defensively minded players in both Fred & McTominay, while dropping 1 attacking player and/or moving at least 1 other attacking player out of position, to counter teams that set up like that against us?
Against the top 6 the aim is to not lose the game, the caveat is that we don't create enough chances - but for those occasions, it works.
Against the remaining 13 teams the same thing happens - and thats exactly how we've ended up drawing/losing games where we just couldn't break teams down, and even the games we've won have been far more laborious than necessary because we simply don't have enough playmakers in our team.
We need two attacking midfielders more often than we need two defensive midfielders because we play more teams that we are capable of beating, more often, than we play teams who are on our level or better than us.
There doesn't need to be a 'silver bullet' who does everything, no where have I suggested that. But neither Fred or McTominay can play DM by themselves, and we simply need a DM.
I don't mind him, but we really need at least 1 midfielder that basically never has a bad game, and he's definitely not that type of player.
Bollocks. Ando before his second injury was a much better player. He could do everything apart from shoot. A lot of our famous goals came from the initial pass from Ando. He was very quick, his passing was very good, he kept possession and difficult to get the ball off him and he could tackle.
I love Fred
He has bundles of energy, never stops running and moving, He doesn't hide from the ball and always demands the ball
He tries to keep the ball moving quickly hence the errors sometimes
I am always happy and more confident when I see his name on the timesheet
He has bundles of energy, never stops running and moving, He doesn't hide from the ball and always demands the ball
He tries to keep the ball moving quickly hence the errors sometimes
I am always happy and more confident when I see his name on the timesheet
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