[stevoc]

you can’t be a good passer if you are erratic.

The enigma that is Fred.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He really is a fitter, more energetic Anderson isn't he

 

[DWelbz19]

Excellent today. Hopefully he can get back into form.

 

[Rossa]

perhaps I shouldn’t have brought Bruno into it - so ignore that.

Fred isint erratic in respect of him passing forwards and it not coming off. He’s erratic because he often doesn’t get the basics right and passes poorly.

If you can excuse my spelling in that last post, I’ll forget about Bruno. I agree that Fred isn’t the best passer, but nor do I think he is terrible. He definitely needs to improve, but if he plays it simple, he’s good at recycling possession.

Perhaps he’s not good enough if we need every player to be creative, but he does bring a certain balance to the team.

 

[Rossa]

He really is a fitter, more energetic Anderson isn't he

Neither could shoot to save their lives.

 

[kundalini]

Super pass for the assist for Rashford's goal. Worked hard as usual.

 

[Glorio]

His passing was on point just about every time tonight

 

[Ali Dia]

Disagree - I mean erratic in the sense that he was good tonight, but has been poor in other games.

Not in the sense that some forward balls don’t come off - some people use that as a stick to bash Bruno, which is ridiculous.

I disagree. If hes always slowing us down and only playing safe slow passes then slate away. Ya he misses some easy passes but that’s because he does everything fast and almost by instinct and with whatever foot it lands on. He pulls off some very difficult passes in nearly every game too and he should have more assists if our forwards were a bit more ruthless. I agree about the Bruno bashing. We need to be as direct as possible and stop trying to slow it down only to run it back in through the crowd once they are set, over and over. What I like most about Fred is he forces the play, for better or worse. He’s the only player we have in the middle who can set the tempo.

 

[Foxbatt]

He really is a fitter, more energetic Anderson isn't he

He certainly is more fitter and more energetic than Ando. But Ando was technically a much better player.

 

[Borys]

No surprise how good he was tonight as he absolutely thrives in end to end games where he can harass and recover balls in space.

Yeah I agree. Plus, I think he plays better against not-so-physical opponents.

 

[11101]

Our pass of the season. Kaka-esque.

 

[Litch]

You're hardly classing Sociedad in the 'best teams' category?

Think most would have said they were one of the best teams left in the competition.

 

[croadyman]

What a pass for the 3rd.

Yeah I remember seeing him doing a similar one for Shakhtar and wondered if we would ever see it here

 

[Sylar]

Given his energy and how he gets up and down, if he could work on his shooting, it would be an added asset especially against teams that sit back where he becomes the free man

 

[Levenstein]

Given his energy and how he gets up and down, if he could work on his shooting, it would be an added asset especially against teams that sit back where he becomes the free man

Think he just needs to get one in from distance and it breaks some ice. He has the ability and also Ole said in presser that he is waiting for one Fred's long range goals

 

[Sylar]

Think he just needs to get one in from distance and it breaks some ice. He has the ability and also Ole said in presser that he is waiting for one Fred's long range goals

Would be nice for it to happen In a tight game that wins us the match

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Disagree - I mean erratic in the sense that he was good tonight, but has been poor in other games.

This could be said for every player ever to have played the game and many on our own team this season.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

This could be said for every player ever to have played the game and many on our own team this season.

again i disagree. Obviously players have bad games, but if you look at the likes of Scholes, Beckham, Keane, Carrick and Fletcher you would described their passing as consistently good. You would never use the word erratic.

fred can’t consistently pass the ball well.

 

[kettledrumhamster]

fred can’t consistently pass the ball well.

I hear this said again and again, and my eyes tell me a different story. But eyes can be biased, so I've just chosen some random players from other teams and our own. Obviously not all in exactly the same position, but the perception is important here. This is what I found...

Rodrigo	91.1
Thiago	90.5
Nemanja Matic	90.1
Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg	88.6
Jordan Henderson	87.2
Fred	87.1
James Ward Prouse	86.9
Phil Foden	86.8
Wilfred Ndidi	86.4
Scott McTominay	86.0
Douglas Luiz	85.6
Moussa Sissoko	85.0
Jack Grealish	84.1
Paul Pogba	83.5
Oriol Romeu	83.3
Tanguy Ndombele	83.2
Youri Tielemans	83.2
Kevin De Bruyne	82.0
John McGinn	79.0
Bruno Fernandes	77.2

Now I can imagine loads of comebacks about these results, and some of them will be fair. Yes of course Bruno's passing % is low because he's trying more difficult passes. I get it. But what is clearly not true is that Fred is an objectively poor passer, or that he "can't consistently pass the ball well". Unless you're putting a *lot* of emphasis on your own subjective definition of the word "well".

What it shows to me is that some people have stubborn defined positions on Fred, and just assume that he can't pass so their blinkers don't allow them to see that he obviously can.
Clearly, in the company of players above, he is one of the better, most consistent passers in the league. That doesn't make him the best in his position, or a clearly world-class player, or the future of the United midfield, or any of that. But maybe it shows you're giving him a particularly harsh report. And you might want to consider why that is.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I hear this said again and again, and my eyes tell me a different story. But eyes can be biased, so I've just chosen some random players from other teams and our own. Obviously not all in exactly the same position, but the perception is important here. This is what I found...

Rodrigo	91.1
Thiago	90.5
Nemanja Matic	90.1
Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg	88.6
Jordan Henderson	87.2
Fred	87.1
James Ward Prouse	86.9
Phil Foden	86.8
Wilfred Ndidi	86.4
Scott McTominay	86.0
Douglas Luiz	85.6
Moussa Sissoko	85.0
Jack Grealish	84.1
Paul Pogba	83.5
Oriol Romeu	83.3
Tanguy Ndombele	83.2
Youri Tielemans	83.2
Kevin De Bruyne	82.0
John McGinn	79.0
Bruno Fernandes	77.2

Now I can imagine loads of comebacks about these results, and some of them will be fair. Yes of course Bruno's passing % is low because he's trying more difficult passes. I get it. But what is clearly not true is that Fred is an objectively poor passer, or that he "can't consistently pass the ball well". Unless you're putting a *lot* of emphasis on your own subjective definition of the word "well".

What it shows to me is that some people have stubborn defined positions on Fred, and just assume that he can't pass so their blinkers don't allow them to see that he obviously can.
Clearly, in the company of players above, he is one of the better, most consistent passers in the league. That doesn't make him the best in his position, or a clearly world-class player, or the future of the United midfield, or any of that. But maybe it shows you're giving him a particularly harsh report. And you might want to consider why that is.

thanks. If you read my previous posts on pass completion you will know my thoughts. A very blunt tool that’s in no way tells you how well a player can pass.

ive Already said what I think of using a single stat to argue any player is good or bad at passing.

 

[Falcow]

I hear this said again and again, and my eyes tell me a different story. But eyes can be biased, so I've just chosen some random players from other teams and our own. Obviously not all in exactly the same position, but the perception is important here. This is what I found...

Rodrigo	91.1
Thiago	90.5
Nemanja Matic	90.1
Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg	88.6
Jordan Henderson	87.2
Fred	87.1
James Ward Prouse	86.9
Phil Foden	86.8
Wilfred Ndidi	86.4
Scott McTominay	86.0
Douglas Luiz	85.6
Moussa Sissoko	85.0
Jack Grealish	84.1
Paul Pogba	83.5
Oriol Romeu	83.3
Tanguy Ndombele	83.2
Youri Tielemans	83.2
Kevin De Bruyne	82.0
John McGinn	79.0
Bruno Fernandes	77.2

Now I can imagine loads of comebacks about these results, and some of them will be fair. Yes of course Bruno's passing % is low because he's trying more difficult passes. I get it. But what is clearly not true is that Fred is an objectively poor passer, or that he "can't consistently pass the ball well". Unless you're putting a *lot* of emphasis on your own subjective definition of the word "well".

What it shows to me is that some people have stubborn defined positions on Fred, and just assume that he can't pass so their blinkers don't allow them to see that he obviously can.
Clearly, in the company of players above, he is one of the better, most consistent passers in the league. That doesn't make him the best in his position, or a clearly world-class player, or the future of the United midfield, or any of that. But maybe it shows you're giving him a particularly harsh report. And you might want to consider why that is.

If you were paying attention to this thread you would know that most of Fred's passes while registered as completed are backways, side ways and at least 1.5m away from the person he is passing to and passing stats are meaningless.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

If you were paying attention to this thread you would know that most of Fred's passes while registered as completed are backways, side ways and at least 1.5m away from the person he is passing to and passing stats are meaningless.

Im not saying that - arguing how good a passer he is based on pass completion stats is foolhardy.

he was very good yesterday, I don’t need a blunt stat to tell me that.

 

[lex talionis]

Fred has an important role to play for us but he has almost at all to offer in the final third. That’s an area he needs to improve.

 

[Bwuk]

Credit where credit is due, that was a excellent pass for the goal.

He seems to be a lot better at those sort of passes than he does easier ones to hit.

 

[Falcow]

Im not saying that - arguing how good a passer he is based on pass completion stats is foolhardy.

he was very good yesterday, I don’t need a blunt stat to tell me that.

I was more arguing that those stats prove that he is not as rubbish a passer as some think as opposed to proving that he is a great passer which he ain't.

Anyway with City being 10 points ahead all of a sudden and United not being in the CL it all feels a bit academic and like the season is over. At least pool are back in 6th.

 

[Litch]

Looking forward to the scrutiny whoever comes in next at CDM. This player has to pass forward both short and long, create, tackle, positionally intelligent, screen back four, score goals, control tempo of game etc. If those think that Rice or anyone else can offer all that so we only need one player rather than two, think again. Be careful what you wish for and look no further than Harry and Evans. It's like trading places and like others before him, Utd shirt weighs much heavier and so does the scrutiny (on and off the pitch). Evans in a Leicester shirt looks a much better than a Utd one.

Fred may not be the answer but I'm in no doubt if he was in a Leicester shirt, many on here would think he was the answer. There's a graveyard of 'the answer' in players since I've been watching Utd since 1977.....

 

[Levenstein]

If you were paying attention to this thread you would know that most of Fred's passes while registered as completed are backways, side ways and at least 1.5m away from the person he is passing to and passing stats are meaningless.

I disagree. He plays lot of passes forward that cuts the lines. I think he should play more higher up the pitch because of that.

He has this erratic passer look when he plays as a DM. He tries lots of risky and key passes that are instant goal threat - higher up the pitch he can concentrate on that and people dont bash him as a shit passer (look Bruno).

 

[Idxomer]

His shooting hurts my eyes, sometimes his passing too.

 

[Levenstein]

Think he played really well today. One bad shot being out of balance (should’ve made dummy and pulled ball on his left) - Happens.

 

[el3mel]

I found his performance today to be terrible. He was one of the worst players on the pitch in the first half imo.

 

[kundalini]

His bad passes were really bad today; fortunately, there weren't too many of them and they tended to go out for a throw-in. One good shot from distance that was saved and a less impressive right-foot effort that was off-target. Some confusion between Fred and Maguire in the first half that we just about got away with. One key pass, 2 tackles and 2 interceptions.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I found his performance today to be terrible. He was one of the worst players on the pitch in the first half imo.

Agreed.. not his day today, improved a bit after we scored the second goal but overall poor.

 

[Still ill]

Oh a shocker from him tonight. Did not enjoy that at all.

 

[roonster09]

He should be fined everytime he shoots from outside the box.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Have we ever had a midfielder with a worse shot? He makes Anderson look like Lampard. Even Djemba Djemba stuck the ball better.

 

[MadDogg]

As I said in another thread, Fred's form has been slowly deteriorating for about two months now. It's been particularly noticeable the last couple of weeks, which is unfortunate timing with all our other midfielders out injured.

He and Matic were regularly getting in each others way for the first 55 minutes or so though. I was hopeful of that combination (coming into the season it was the one I hoped would become first choice) but it really hasn't worked the last couple of times we've used it. They naturally tend to go into similar positions since they normally play with McTominay or Pogba, but it might take a bit of playing together to get the balance right.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

He should be fined everytime he shoots from outside the box.

2 weeks when it's a right-footed shot.

 

[AltiUn]

He should be fined everytime he shoots from outside the box.

I'd consider fining him every time he absolutely smashes a 5 yard pass at his team mates as well.

 

[Kostov]

Absolutely terrible. He and Matic couldn’t cope with Jonjo Shelvey and Hayden.

 

[arthurka]

He is one of the worst passers I have as a midfielder in a Utd shirt. Can't pass for shit, if it isn't 3-5 yards he will underhit or overhit it. But occasionally it's in the general direction. Would love to have a player who could run about and pass the ball playing for us.