City didn't score.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
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- 10
- Red cards
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City didn't score.
His red against PSG cost us big time at Leipzig. Feels like we haven't played well in any game he hasn't played this season.
That's cos we haven't. He has missed 6 games this season as follows: Crystal Palace - 3 conceded at home. Brighton, 2 conceded. Spurs at home, 6 conceded. Istanbul, 2 conceded, West Ham, 2 conceded, Leipzig 3 conceded. Total 6 games and 18 conceded.
2 common denominators here. First they were all shit performances bar 20 mins v Westham and second Fred didnt play in any of them.
It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
Those are some staggering stats. He has his faults but there is no doubt he brings a lot to the team and right now I don't think there is anyone else that can do the job that he does.
One of the first names on the starting 11 for me, important player with an important role and there’s no one for us that can do it better,
Energetic, tenacious and a bit of fire in his play, I think he’d walk into most starting 11’s in the league tbh
Energetic, tenacious and a bit of fire in his play, I think he’d walk into most starting 11’s in the league tbh
Defensively he'd be better than VdB even at 25%
Great performance yesterday. More than anyone else he snuffed out the threat from City.
Some of them have no clue and want to only shoehorn Bruno, Pogba, VdB into the team some how. He might not be on the level of Kante but he does a great job for us even if obviously limited.
Without him we get over run all the time.
We've played well in very few games to start with. And he's played in games where we were poor too. Generally the point is, he's played most of our games (6th most) so whatever performance good or bad he was part of it
He's very key to our game, he brings so much defensively and offensively and we become very limited in midfield without him
He’s key to our play, particularly in big games. Missed him big time vs Leipzig.
Not sure if that’s because he is very good at what he does or because we literally have nobody else as mobile as him. McTominay and Matic was disastrous.
Yeah, looked at the stats now.
He's started 13 games. In those games, we conceded 10 goals, scored 29 goals and won 10 of those games, losing just twice.
With him starting:
13 games
69.23% won
15.38% lost
2.23 goals scored per game
0.77 goals conceded per game
Without Fred starting:
6 games
33.33% won
66.67% lost
1.83 goals scored per game
2.83 goals conceded per game
Didn't account for time on the pitch, but the difference is incredible, without even considering the team's performances. We'd probably still be in the Champions League if Ole just subbed him against PSG.
Shows how much we need new quality midfielders.
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Please explain in what way Fred should get credit for that??
He’s not the only reason for a clean sheet obviously, but the stats are out there for you to see how key he is to us. Look at the state on the midfield vs Leipzig compared to yesterday.Please explain in what way Fred should get credit for that??
If you’re looking for an offensive juggernaut then you are fecked, yes.
We won a lot more with him in the team though. But I get it. Your hard on on Herrera clouds your judgment on Fred
No, I just think we've been poor even if we're not too far off on points. I've fallen asleep in our first halves on more than one occasion.
You must be enjoying the football though and thats why you want to pretend Fred is a great DM
Well no, he wasnt part of any of those 6 performances that I listed.
But I take your point, we haven't played well in every game he has played....but I would say most.
They've also barely played together compared to McTominay and Fred who have both looked better together and have played together a lot.
Fred definitely does provide something with his pressing and when he isnt in the team Matic does it more than Pogba or McTominay - with VDB ahead of Matic too but only 2.5 premier league games to judge it on. Wouldnt be surprising if VDB is the next best option though
Thanks for that, that's way better than my basic stats.
So the win % more than doubles with him in the team, whilst the goals conceded game per game more than trebles without him...that is unbelievable. What more proof do people need.
In my opinion, he and Bruno are our two most important players at the moment. If only Martial was replicating last seasons form, we would be top of the league by now.
I’d be also willing to bet the games he started were tougher fixtures, on paper. He tends to start all our biggest games.
He is the engine room. I personally feel that he is doing what he has been asked to do. Now if we get a top class replacement for Matic and one class quick CB we can be in business.
That would get Fred up the pitch more often and could close down the opposition further up the pitch
That would get Fred up the pitch more often and could close down the opposition further up the pitch
Those stats don’t surprise me at all and I agree, I struggle to see how anyone can’t see how much better we are when Fred plays. He’s so much better than a lot of people give him credit for.
If he was in another team the same people would be urging Ed to sign him. In some respects he’s the Bruno of our CM. Constant energy and drive and he really creates problems for the opposing team while creating opportunities for us.
So your theory is that he's asked to let players get past him easily with a poor success rate of tackles? Doesnt seem very likely does it
The statistics have already been provided to show how much better the team performs defensively with Fred in it. And to be fair his tackle success rate isn't too different from matic.
Mctominays tackle success rate is much better. However despite playing more PL minutes this season with a 85% tackle success rate; Fred has still managed to complete more tackles than McTominay with his 50% success rate.
As others have mentioned the difference between Fred and the others is his engine and ability to get himself about the pitch.
It's all well and good having McTominay completing 85% of his tackles but when Fred is attempting double the tackles in any given game, it makes you wonder what the other is up to.
I guess if you don't do much then you can't really put a fit wrong. And I suppose Fred at times is a victim of his own success for getting himself about in the danger zones and constantly being in the centre of the action..
Like I started this post, the statistics don't lie and Freds presence has a massive influence on the team's performance. Only second to Bruno for how influential he is on the team's performance in my opinion.
He's probably the second name on the teamsheet, following Bruno. A vital, vital, cog for our team. Severely underrated by most of our fans going by the comments in this thread.
Fred brings a lot to the team - the constant harrying of the ball, he forces opposition to go back, prevents them building attacks, and often wins the ball high up the pitch. His touch and calmness on the ball is also underrated. Yes, he plays like the Tasmanian Devil, but he's so crucial to our style of play. Most importantly, he provides a platform for the front 4 players to express themselves. In tougher games, the midfield of McFred & Bruno is the way to go, but I'd like to see Donny come in for McT against weaker opposition, or teams that are going to play on the counter.
Even though he was clearly struggling vs City with an injury, he still was excellent across the park. I'm a big Fred fan, and he's an excellent B2B midfielder (not DM), and I'd say in the top 2-3 in the league for what he does.
We still do need a quality DM. A quality DM, Fred, McT, Donny and Bruno is a great array of midfield options for the future, with the likes of Garner and Mejbri not too far away either.
Fred brings a lot to the team - the constant harrying of the ball, he forces opposition to go back, prevents them building attacks, and often wins the ball high up the pitch. His touch and calmness on the ball is also underrated. Yes, he plays like the Tasmanian Devil, but he's so crucial to our style of play. Most importantly, he provides a platform for the front 4 players to express themselves. In tougher games, the midfield of McFred & Bruno is the way to go, but I'd like to see Donny come in for McT against weaker opposition, or teams that are going to play on the counter.
Even though he was clearly struggling vs City with an injury, he still was excellent across the park. I'm a big Fred fan, and he's an excellent B2B midfielder (not DM), and I'd say in the top 2-3 in the league for what he does.
We still do need a quality DM. A quality DM, Fred, McT, Donny and Bruno is a great array of midfield options for the future, with the likes of Garner and Mejbri not too far away either.
Yes Matic's is bad this season too. Wasnt the case last season, but so far this season like Fred he's beaten more than he tackles someone who takes him on.
That doesnt stop it being a terrible thing for a DM though. It just means Matic is doing as poorly as Fred is as a DM
I wouldn't really say Fred is a traditional DM though, more a box to box midfielder with qualities at both ends of the pitches.
You should have a look on infogol at the different stats for players who play in a similar role to Fred though.
I do agree his tackle success rate is low but in contrast to other "DMs" such as Kante, doucoure etc.. he is attempting alot more tackles per 90. And I suspect making and completing more passes too.
So while Fred may not be as successful in his tackling, he is attempting much more than the average midfielder and I attribute this to his engine and seemingly always being in the action zone. A failed tackle is better than no tackle because at least it slows down play. Or other players don't have the engine or positional sense to be able to attempt the challenges which Fred does.
None of that would change whether he's doing a good job as a DM in a 4-2-3-1
They play an incredibly important role for the balance of the team filling holes so other players can get forward while they are staying back. If they arent doing this it doesnt matter how many passes they make, the team suffers overall. If he makes 10 less passes but fills in for our fullbacks and makes a vital tackle on the edge of the box when a player known for shooting from range has a chance to get a strike on goal then hes played his role much better because nobody else is going to be doing those things but other players are going to make passes.
So he might do a good amount for a central midfielder overall, but hes not playing central midfield and we don't need someone playing central midfield more than someone to help protect the defence. That isnt where we're vulnerable. Its our defence and thats why we're playing a system with 2 DMs in the first place.
So to recap - our DMs dont get forward and support play much, dont get in front of the ball they stay behind it. They dont currently fill in for our fullbacks who get forward to provide width in moves and will be out of position when we're broken against. They tend to stay central trying to block the central pathways... But if you run at Fred you're more likely to go past him than lose the ball, which is an easy way to bypass that extra protection. Matic and McTominay wont engage so often so opponents wont be pressed as much and may have more time on the ball in the build up, but they'll also be in a better defensive position to help the CBs clean up in the danger areas where Fred wont be as he pressed taking himself out of that position.
Being too easy to go past is a big liability for him and almost defeats the purpose of him pressing because of the simple solution to take him on when he comes to you.
If he's not going to give that defensive solidarity you need from a DM in our formation then he needs to play further forward. And that role doesnt exist in a 4-2-3-1. He isnt creative enough for the front roles. Maybe he could be used to press from the AM role in very specific scenarios but Bruno Fernandes is our 2nd best presser so why would you use a player half as good on the ball?
Also, if we then say hes a box to box midfielder and play a formation where we actually play one, then he'd need to score a lot more often and help create some more chances than he does currently.
Fred is as important as Bruno just playing a different position obviously. Shame he was carrying a knock since the early minutes and hardly shaked it off till the end of the game. His movement was seriously limited, think we could win a few more balls in midfield and capitalize on them if he was 100%, city were there for taking..
even Fred’s biggest fans can’t say he’s as important at Bruno with a straight face.
On tv it's always harder to analyse players that help the team tick...rather that moments players that score or get an assist. Thats why I will never really have a strong opinion on Fred, I just haven't watched him closely enough to know his contribution.
His first touch has long been an issue for discussions, but it´s hardly an issue anymore. Yes, he had that slip when he got the red card, but his passing has become much better. He does not give the ball away much, and unlike last season, my heart does not pump extra when he receives the ball in pressed situations. He improved a lot last season, and has continued to improve this season. One of top 3 for United this season.
Yeah, always thought there was a player in there when he was struggling. His problem was only really the loose passing and touches, and IIRC I said it was due to him being new to the league. Usually thought he had more time on the ball than he really did.
He has ironed them out now, is sharper, stronger in duels, and is moving the ball quicker. You could see he is a quality player. Our most conventional and accomplished midfielder IMO.
We always play better when he does play. His contribution to block the opponent pass made the whole team play more effective to attack them.
I understand the reasoning behind this.
I suspect he's important to us because we have subpar defensive organization and thus a player with the workrate of Fred is needed to cover that (often a double pivot of Fred AND McTominay). Similar to Bruno needing to cover our subpar attacking organization.
Believe it or not, even statistics backs that.
I bet you're one of those kids who play FIFA with just attacking players because they have good attacking stats. Real life is different, some people who usually don't understand the game will only notice flicks, tricks and attacking input, some will also notice running, tackling etc. That's better but not enough either. There is so much more to that and mostly you can tell in a thread like this who's got a bit more knowledge than others to be frank and I'm being nice here:-)
Sorry, but that's just not flying, and you've no reason to slag people off as FIFA-playing fools just because they don't accept a notion as preposterous as what you're suggesting.
Fred may be important, but he is not remotely as important to the team as Bruno Fernandes. Which ought to be immediately obvious from watching the team when Bruno isn't playing. Or the results before and after his arrival. It's not a question of appreciating the finer and less visible points of the game, it's absolutely bleedin' obvious. You're missing the wood for trees, mate.
His contribution is the stuff that isn't flashy which is why people struggle to notice it.
Everybody sees Bruno's contibution because he's the one giving the final pass or the goal, but Fred is doing the pressurising in midfield to help us win the ball back. He's either the first on the scene to disrupt the opponent, or he's always there as the 2nd man ready to clean up a loose ball.
It's no coincidence we look a much more competitive team with him in the side.
Yes he could be better on the ball, yes he could score/shoot better but that's not so important when you have 4 attackers ahead of you. He just needs to keep winning the ball, keep the tempo high and keep feeding the forwards.
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