Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked

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duffer said:
A Chelsea managers job is under threat at all times. You don't need a source to know that! It's not news.
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True.

I think the reason people are so interested is that Ole had a few bad runs and survived, Arteta had a bad run and survived, now Lampard's having a bad run, but Chelsea are seen as probably the most likely to sack a manager during a bad run. It'll be very interesting to see if Lampard can weather the storm. Do you think that's a fair reflection of how Chelsea act as a club?
 
Counterfactual said:
True.

I think the reason people are so interested is that Ole had a few bad runs and survived, Arteta had a bad run and survived, now Lampard's having a bad run, but Chelsea are seen as probably the most likely to sack a manager during a bad run. It'll be very interesting to see if Lampard can weather the storm. Do you think that's a fair reflection of how Chelsea act as a club?
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We are definitely more trigger happy, that's for sure.
 
duffer said:
It's pure speculation just vague enough that you can't dismiss it as complete horseshit.

They're reporting that Chelsea are considering sacking him, with no quotes whatsoever from anyone at Chelsea.
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I agree that it's most likely speculation but I don't think even if they had a source within the club they would directly quote him because that will be problematic for Chelsea and the source.
 
Withnail said:
'The Athletic' know nothing.

The whole organisation, who hoovered up a lot of the top UK soccer journalistic talent, know nothing, have no sources and make stuff up? Ok dude.
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They just happened to get that article out immediately on the final whistle?
"Top journalistic talent".

Did enjoy that line though. Well played.
 
Counterfactual said:
True.

I think the reason people are so interested is that Ole had a few bad runs and survived, Arteta had a bad run and survived, now Lampard's having a bad run, but Chelsea are seen as probably the most likely to sack a manager during a bad run. It'll be very interesting to see if Lampard can weather the storm. Do you think that's a fair reflection of how Chelsea act as a club?
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I think the question that has to be asked about all three is are they good enough to ultimately win the title? As I assume that's the ultimate aim of all three clubs.

With Lampard and Arteta (don't be fooled by their mini revival) the answer looks like a flat no, Ole has emerged as the most likely but there's still question marks on whether it's more him or Bruno playing like a freak (like how Suarez dragged Brendan Rodgers into a title challenge).
 
No one really knows what's going on at Chelsea outside of Mr A, Marina and that tight circle. Leaks the club doesn't want wouldn't be tolerated.

Athletic article can easily just be for clicks.

That being said, we know how ruthless Mr A is and he's just spent £200m on players who haven't improved results.

Failure has never been accepted at Chelsea and managers don't get time, ever, since Mr A bought us. This time won't be any different.
 
Dancfc said:
I think the question that has to be asked about all three is are they good enough to ultimately win the title? As I assume that's the ultimate aim of all three clubs.

With Lampard and Arteta (don't be fooled by their mini revival) the answer looks like a flat no, Ole has emerged as the most likely but there's still question marks on whether it's more him or Bruno playing like a freak (like how Suarez dragged Brendan Rodgers into a title challenge).
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I agree with the question marks. What I would say though is Chelsea and Arsenal ultimately hired Arteta and Lampard presumably after a process and with long term goals in mind. United on the other hand kind of stumbled into Ole who was brought in with a very different brief as a caretaker manager. You could argue that Ole has already achieved much of what he was initially asked to do; bring stability and start to change the culture at the club. To do much more would be exceeding expectations to some degree and I think many forget this when they throw criticism at him.

I'm not sure he is the man to get us to that next level myself but I can also understand that he's achieved what he initially set out to do (and some) so find it hard to be overly critical.

It's different for Arteta and Lampard though.
 
Counterfactual said:
I disagree. I think the timing is important. It smacks of clickbait to release it immediately after a heavy defeat, and if it's clickbait, it's less trustworthy imo.
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You don't run a story that the manager is being considered for the sack if they've just beaten Man City. That doesn't mean the story is clickbait.

If results don't improve he will be gone, I don't think that's up for dispute and I don't understand why everyone's getting their knickers in a twist.
 
TheReligion said:
I agree with the question marks. What I would say though is Chelsea and Arsenal ultimately hired Arteta and Lampard presumably after a process and with long term goals in mind. United on the other hand kind of stumbled into Ole who was brought in with a very different brief as a caretaker manager. You could argue that Ole has already achieved much of what he was initially asked to do; bring stability and start to change the culture at the club. To do much more would be exceeding expectations to some degree and I think many forget this when they throw criticism at him.

I'm not sure he is the man to get us to that next level myself but I can also understand that he's achieved what he initially set out to do (and some) so find it hard to be overly critical.

It's different for Arteta and Lampard though.
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I think Lampard was here to see us through the transfer ban and then see what happened, mainly because he's one of the few manager's that would put the clubs future before himself. We also desperately needed to start making use of our academy sides and Lampard fitted the bill.

In many ways it was a win-win, if he ultimately doesn't become good enough he leaves a promising squad for someone who is (our squad quality now is on another level to what he inherited, which is also working against him as the fair question of why aren't the results and performances better come to play) and if he does become great, then amazing. Under the circumstances (back that summer) I think it was a gamble worth making and despite what's happening now it has paid off in some ways.

Regarding Ole, no doubt he's done a good job with what you've described but at some point does the time will come where you'd have to decide whether he's the right man to take you to the next level? (A bit like the decision we had to make with Ranieri) And if a bonafide world class manager becomes available at the same time (like Mou did for us) that would further complicate the choice.
 
Sandikan said:
They just happened to get that article out immediately on the final whistle?
"Top journalistic talent".

Did enjoy that line though. Well played.
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Exactly, they did the same with Arsenal but in reverse. As soon as the final whistle blew after we lost to some team recently, they had an article up defending Arteta and saying to give him time.
 
RashyForPM said:
They published that right on the final whistle, with the article pre-written in the hope Chelsea lost. Otherwise, they’d just have waited for the next time Chelsea lost. The Athletic know nothing.
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Simon Johnson and Liam Twomey do when it comes to Chelsea, though. On a seperate note, David Ornstein is one of the best journos out there for his reliabilty, he also works for the athletic
 
duffer said:
"It could rain tomorrow".

That's their story. If it rains they were right. If it doesn't nobody cares.
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True indeed. It's clear that Lampard is struggling and its whether the club and fans see actual potential to ride out the rough storm. Personally, there is no chance that will happen at Chelsea, he's at the wrong club for patience. Tuchel or Allegri is the next question, unless you try and poach a Manager from an existing club. I think it'll be one of Tuchel or Allegri personally.
 
Chelsea aren't a patient club.

I feel like Lampard has served his purpose. He's weathered the storm whilst there was a transfer ban. He's delivered CL football, and he's bedded the new arrivals in to the club.

I fully expect a bigger name to come in. Allegri or Tuchel written all over it.
 
Without the transfer ban Lampard would have been nowhere near the job. I agree with that opinion completely. Thats more or less guaranteed.

He just needs to learn, change his ideas and stop having favourites. And quickly, or he is out the door. And come up with a plan B

Admittedly though, I have seen a lot of talk on social media that if this was anyone bar Lampard. ie. Scolari, Sarri, AVB, Grant etc, we'd all be much harsher and want them sacked. And i think i agree with that. No fecking way any of those managers i mentioned and others besides them, would be cheered on to keep their job with us 3pts off 12th. It's ok saying we are only 3 off Spurs, but right now way we are playing, its far more likely the feckers behind us catch us , than us catch Spurs
 
RashyForPM said:
They published that right on the final whistle, with the article pre-written in the hope Chelsea lost. Otherwise, they’d just have waited for the next time Chelsea lost. The Athletic know nothing.
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Nonsense. Do you subscribe? They've cherry-picked specialist journos who cover and have links with practically every PL club. Their inside info is second to none and their articles are excellent.
 
RedSky said:
True indeed. It's clear that Lampard is struggling and its whether the club and fans see actual potential to ride out the rough storm. Personally, there is no chance that will happen at Chelsea, he's at the wrong club for patience. Tuchel or Allegri is the next question, unless you try and poach a Manager from an existing club. I think it'll be one of Tuchel or Allegri personally.
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Allegri i think has the better CV, but I'm not sure he is your man for all the attacking talent we have. If the board are determined to get Werner and Havertz firing, theyd opt for Tuchel simply because he is German, aswell as a decent coach
 
Jonno said:
Chelsea aren't a patient club.
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We are if there's signs the potential end product is something we want to see (case in point last season). It's when there's little encouragement of progress under a certain manager things get sketchy.
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Allegri i think has the better CV, but I'm not sure he is your man for all the attacking talent we have. If the board are determined to get Werner and Havertz firing, theyd opt for Tuchel simply because he is German, aswell as a decent coach
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I'd probably agree with that. I'm sure Allegri is tempting though as he seems like a very safe option. I'm expecting the change to happen very soon given it's the January window. I'm not sure it'd be wise to wait around as your next two games should be fairly straight forward wins. Your next challenge will be Leicester on the 19th, which if you do lose and the changeover happens doesn't give the new Manager much time to bring in a new player or two.

Therefore it's probably a good time to swap Managers asap. Otherwise i'll be surprised if you bring any new players in, when it's clear as day you need defensive and midfield reinforcement.
 
It'd be incredibly rash of Chelsea to sack him, there'll be a lot more yo-yo'ing in the table from now until the end of the season, including from ourselves.
 
2mufc0 said:
Clubs leak info to journalists all the time, this isn't surprising at all.
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Berbaclass said:
What do you want them to do? Give their sources away?
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Withnail said:
As if sources at a club are going to be quoted as saying they are looking at alternatives to their current manager.

Get a grip. Chelsea would be mad not to be looking at alternatives in case Frank can't turn it around.
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crossy1686 said:
Or they've been sitting on some info from a source that told them his job was under threat and would be even more so if they didn't win against City?
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Seriously, the only thing informative about that article is that the journo writing it is clearly well educated considering how well-written it was. I could have made that story up straight after a bad loss coupled with a shocking display by his players. Watch him still be manager for the Morecambe and Fulham games.

Also, hasn’t his job been under threat since their loss to Wolves? They’ve been poor for many games now.
 
pascell said:
It'd be incredibly rash of Chelsea to sack him, there'll be a lot more yo-yo'ing in the table from now until the end of the season, including from ourselves.
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isnt this what roman abramovic do? Take rash decision when sacking managers? I think lampard being a club legend is helping his case a bit, till when? Not sure. I just read that he had a very low points per game ration (1.67 i guess). His job is not easy. 6-7 signings this summer. This changes the team’s structure an rhythm. It takes time to pull it all together. Does roman give time though?
 
The weird thing is his Derby side actually played some good football. Better than what Chelsea are showing right now.

I wonder if he's actually just gone and bought too many players too quickly.

They've now got a very talented squad but none of them seem to be nailing down the positions and getting any consistency.

Their best player on form is Giroud yet he seems to be in and out of the side constantly - is he trying to be too smart?
 
Adam-Utd said:
The weird thing is his Derby side actually played some good football. Better than what Chelsea are showing right now.

I wonder if he's actually just gone and bought too many players too quickly.

They've now got a very talented squad but none of them seem to be nailing down the positions and getting any consistency.

Their best player on form is Giroud yet he seems to be in and out of the side constantly - is he trying to be too smart?
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Yeah on the bolded I mentioned this a few weeks back, it’s a bit like when Spurs bought all those players after selling Bale and they never all hit the ground running.

I think he’s signed good players but they aren’t great players that some made out in the summer, they need coaching to get it right but he doesn’t seem to know his best 11.

If Giroud is their best player then that’s mental with what they’ve spent.

For a start Hudson Odoi should be starting every single game but only seems to come on as a sub which is strange.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I wonder if he's actually just gone and bought too many players too quickly.

They've now got a very talented squad but none of them seem to be nailing down the positions and getting any consistency.
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He signed six players and half of them have nailed down their positions and gave been pretty consistent (Mendy, Silva and Chilwell). Ziyech has played whenever he has been fit so it's only 2 of the 6 that are struggling for consistency/nailling down their position.
 
Pep never had a problem with buying players quickly because he knew exactly the system and what type of players requires it. Frank probably needs to spend some time on calibrating his own tactics and I'm almost convinced there's a real chance of Roman giving him time till next Christmas. Sacking him now can be a massive waste of resources and time.

Ziyech, Werner or Pulisić didin't had a chance to play much together. If they won't gel till February or March there will be even more pressure on Frank, but somebody made that decision to hire him and responsibility is also group thing in this case.
 
duffer said:
He signed six players and half of them have nailed down their positions and gave been pretty consistent (Mendy, Silva and Chilwell). Ziyech has played whenever he has been fit so it's only 2 of the 6 that are struggling for consistency/nailling down their position.
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Fair enough, I guess i'm thinking more along the lines of Ziyech/Werner/Havertz adding to the fact that Pulisic and CHO aren't exactly first names on the team sheet either, it just seems like you play a different team every week.

What would you put your problems down to? I think he needs to find himself a starting 11 and build from there.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Fair enough, I guess i'm thinking more along the lines of Ziyech/Werner/Havertz adding to the fact that Pulisic and CHO aren't exactly first names on the team sheet either, it just seems like you play a different team every week.

What would you put your problems down to? I think he needs to find himself a starting 11 and build from there.
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Bit of everything. Manager being a bit shit + players being a bit shit = a bit shit.

The back four seems fine to me, just need to get the midfield sorted next. The forwards to take all the flack but our midfield has been garbage during this recent spell.
 
Adam-Utd said:
The weird thing is his Derby side actually played some good football. Better than what Chelsea are showing right now.

I wonder if he's actually just gone and bought too many players too quickly.

They've now got a very talented squad but none of them seem to be nailing down the positions and getting any consistency.

Their best player on form is Giroud yet he seems to be in and out of the side constantly - is he trying to be too smart?
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They really didn't. I'm originally from the area and as a result, I have loads of mates who support Derby. He was only ever average at best and actually underachieved relative to the talent he had at his disposal. He has premier league quality players such as Mount, Wilson and Tammy and while they performed okay that should have been more than enough to get them into the premier league. Instead, they did what they always do, get to the playoffs and then fail in spectacular fashion. I really strongly believe Lampard is completely out of his depth at this level.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
They really didn't. I'm originally from the area and as a result, I have loads of mates who support Derby. He was only ever average at best and actually underachieved relative to the talent he had at his disposal. He has premier league quality players such as Mount, Wilson and Tammy and while they performed okay that should have been more than enough to get them into the premier league. Instead, they did what they always do, get to the playoffs and then fail in spectacular fashion. I really strongly believe Lampard is completely out of his depth at this level.
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I can't say I watched much of the championship but the 2 games I saw (against Chelsea and United) they seemed to play quite well, at Old Trafford especially they played us off the park if I remember correctly, but then I guess that wasn't unusual for Jose's United :lol:
 
united for life said:
isnt this what roman abramovic do? Take rash decision when sacking managers? I think lampard being a club legend is helping his case a bit, till when? Not sure. I just read that he had a very low points per game ration (1.67 i guess). His job is not easy. 6-7 signings this summer. This changes the team’s structure an rhythm. It takes time to pull it all together. Does roman give time though?
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Which sackings were "rash"?
 
Adam-Utd said:
I can't say I watched much of the championship but the 2 games I saw (against Chelsea and United) they seemed to play quite well, at Old Trafford especially they played us off the park if I remember correctly, but then I guess that wasn't unusual for Jose's United :lol:
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Nail on the head for me, we got outplayed by everyone under Mourinho.
 
He'll be under massive pressure now, he was brought in as a stop gap to guide them through a season where they couldn't buy anyone, given he did better than expected they kept him on but Roman don't spend the kind of money he did in the summer without expecting a title challenge
 
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