Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked

[Djemba-Djemba]

I remember that 5-0 defeat so vividly.

It had been so long since we'd lost I was just sat there confused, Utd never lose what the feck is this?!?!?

Even Chris Sutton scored, a dark dark day.

 

[UweBein]

You don't make an inexperienced appointment like Lampard only to sack him because of inconsistencies...

And I am not there, far from it. I would let him see out the season and see how he starts the 2021-2022 season (even if we end up 16th this season), but I still feel okay with criticising or rather questioning his approach. I do acknowledge it has been quite a transition at Chelsea which he has to deal with - and I have no clue about the reality he is facing and its complexity at the moment.

Chelsea had many great players before Lampard. But for me, he was the turning point in Chelsea's recent history. I would be really disappointed if we did not give him enough time.

 

[Threesus]

And I am not there, far from it. I would let him see out the season and see how he starts the 2021-2022 season (even if we end up 16th this season), but I still feel okay with criticising or rather questioning his approach. I do acknowledge it has been quite a transition at Chelsea which he has to deal with - and I have no clue about the reality he is facing and its complexity at the moment.

Chelsea had many great players before Lampard. But for me, he was the turning point in Chelsea's recent history. I would be really disappointed if we did not give him enough time.

He and Terry are probably the greatest players in your history. I think you should assess him at the end of the season, to be honest.

That Arsenal loss featured a set piece goal from Xhaka and a cross-shot from Saka. I don't think Arsenal were particularly great in that game. Luck was in their side. Jorginho missed a penalty as well. You guys are still in the CL, so he has not been that bad.

 

[Dancfc]

We're actually better off than we were last year in the equivalent fixtures. I don't think Lampard is lighting the world on fire or anything and he deserves closer scrutiny than he got last year, but I think we have improved overall. Whether that's sufficient to justify keeping him on given the level of investment is the key question. If he keeps doing idiotic things like his team selection against Villa then I could see us taking action.

Upto and including Leeds i was delighted with the progress we were making but something has gone horribly wrong since, it's similar to what suddenly happened in Conte's second season (those three horror 0-0's vs Norwich, Arsenal and Leicester in January and beyond) where it almost feels like Tony Pulis has took over.

 

[thatsme]

Raising your game against the European champions, only to still end up 5th. Typical game raising, small time cnuts

Furthermore, they had Dennis Wise in that team, and what an absolutely massive, annoying, cnut of a player he was.

 

[Counterfactual]

I picked a game in which he scored, totally at random, to check...

Impressive. A post which is amusingly audacious and amazingly annoying!

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Jody Morris ?

Much as i like Jody, he adds feck all to the coaching set up IMO. He is lifeless on the sidelines and I think Frank needs someone more experienced alongside him.

Decent player when he felt like it, but not for me as a senior coach/manager

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Furthermore, they had Dennis Wise in that team, and what an absolutely massive, annoying, cnut of a player he was.

utterly loved him, still do. Best captain we have had behind JT IMO. Little fecking bastard of a player.

We always did ok v Man Utd in the prem overall tbf, few hidings but usually did alright. I think there was a stat that Utd had lost more games/points to us in the premier league era, than they had against any other side - but that day was amazing. Everything clicked, went a goal up in something like 30 seconds, too

 

[Berbasbullet]

utterly loved him, still do. Best captain we have had behind JT IMO. Little fecking bastard of a player.

We always did ok v Man Utd in the prem overall tbf, few hidings but usually did alright. I think there was a stat that Utd had lost more games/points to us in the premier league era, than they had against any other side - but that day was amazing. Everything clicked, went a goal up in something like 30 seconds, too

I remember I was about 9 years old and we had this on the radio in the car and I was fecking crying when we went 1-0 down what an embarrassment.

 

[duffer]

Much as i like Jody, he adds feck all to the coaching set up IMO. He is lifeless on the sidelines and I think Frank needs someone more experienced alongside him.

Are you really basing you opinion of him as a coach from how he acts on the touchline?

 

[Blood Mage]

Between him, Ole and Arteta I still think he's the best manager of the three, but his signings have been total flops. The fact that they're relying heavily on Abraham and Giroud for goals is very concerning.

 

[WeePat]

Much as i like Jody, he adds feck all to the coaching set up IMO. He is lifeless on the sidelines and I think Frank needs someone more experienced alongside him.

Decent player when he felt like it, but not for me as a senior coach/manager

I mean, I see people on twitter say this a lot, but the truth is, we don't know that. No-one had bad word to say about Jody during the good periods, but suddenly now we know exactly what his day to day duties are and how effectively he carries them out?. It's like that time when people became obsessed with Hilario being the goalkeeping coach because Kepa was performing terribly.

 

[duffer]

Between him, Ole and Arteta I still think he's the best manager of the three, but his signings have been total flops. The fact that they're relying heavily on Abraham and Giroud for goals is very concerning.

Mendy, Chilwell and Silva have in no way been flops and Ziyech has been great whenever he played.

Saying "his signings have been flops" is objectively garbage.

 

[CiroDiMarzio]

Between him, Ole and Arteta I still think he's the best manager of the three, but his signings have been total flops. The fact that they're relying heavily on Abraham and Giroud for goals is very concerning.

I couldn't disagree with this more. He's shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is a better manager than Solskjaer. Solskjaer has drastically improved Utd and the league form over the last 12 months shows this clearly. Despite all of the signings this Chelsea team is exactly like Frank's Derby team - easy on the eye at times but soft at the centre and flakey as f*ck. Lampard is repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[UweBein]

Between him, Ole and Arteta I still think he's the best manager of the three, but his signings have been total flops. The fact that they're relying heavily on Abraham and Giroud for goals is very concerning.

To be honest, Ole is doing much better and probably coping with much more pressure than Lamps. PL > CL every time, when it comes to assessing managers. PL is your bread & butter business, there are too many flukes in CL.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Upto and including Leeds i was delighted with the progress we were making but something has gone horribly wrong since, it's similar to what suddenly happened in Conte's second season (those three horror 0-0's vs Norwich, Arsenal and Leicester in January and beyond) where it almost feels like Tony Pulis has took over.

I feel like his intentions for how Chelsea would play were really good at the start and then he's lost a bit of faith in Tammy and so now tweaked things to play to Giroud's strengths. It means you're a bit of a mish-mash of styles. Still a good team but I think to win the PL these days you need to be quite innovative tactically and Chelsea have moved away from that a bit.

 

[Oranges038]

What?
Last season was pretty good.
But this season, you could have had Chris Hughton managing Chelsea and he would not have done worse point-wise.
The actual points total is quite bad.

My biggest problem with him is that, from my perspective, he is not adjusting sufficiently to our opponents. It seems to me that he is basing his team selection on names and perceived potential - but it is clear that he has a bias towards certain players.
(He may still be clinging to the idea of playing his own brand of football, but he should move on from that idea quickly.)

I don't get it, same way as I didn't get all the moaning about Ole and how he should have been doing better and all that other nonsense.

Currently sixth, same amount of points as City and Spurs, 6 points of the top. 4th best defence and joint second in terms of goals scored. It's his second season and they spent big money in the summer and he's still bedding in new players.

 

[thatsme]

I don't get it, same way as I didn't get all the moaning about Ole and how he should have been doing better and all that other nonsense.

Currently sixth, same amount of points as City and Spurs, 6 points of the top. 4th best defence and joint second in terms of goals scored. It's his second season and they spent big money in the summer and he's still bedding in new players.

They're in a false posistion because other teams have a game or two in hand over Chelsea.
You can forget about them getting anywhere near Liverpool, who have a game in hand and 6 points ahead. Same with Utd who'll finish 10+ points ahead of Chelsea.
So, take these games in hand into account and it leaves Chelsea down there in midtable with Southampton around 9th place.

Then you look at the stats and see they haven't beaten a single team in the top ten, and even struggle to score a goal against half decent teams.
They've got the look of a 6th-10th place team written all over them, with the probability of Lampard ending up with the lowest points total of any manager under RA who's lasted a full season.

 

[lysglimt]

I picked a game in which he scored, totally at random, to check...

Should put you on ignore for that one alone haha

 

[duffer]

Then you look at the stats and see they haven't beaten a single team in the top ten

Liar liar pants on fire.

Palace and West Ham were both in the top 10 when we beat them.

 

[RedSky]

Between him, Ole and Arteta I still think he's the best manager of the three, but his signings have been total flops. The fact that they're relying heavily on Abraham and Giroud for goals is very concerning.

Yet all the stats point to Ole being better and Lampard struggling big time. Not as bad as Arteta mind, but still flopping hard.

Ole has the higher win percentage in the league, Ole's managed 20 more league games than Lampard and yet both clubs have lost 16 games.

Since lockdown for example, United had won 62.5% of our games, averaging 2.13 points per game, while Chelsea have got a 52.0% averaging 1.76 points per game. We've lost 3 games in 24, while Chelsea have lost 7 in 25.

 

[el3mel]

Between him, Ole and Arteta I still think he's the best manager of the three, but his signings have been total flops. The fact that they're relying heavily on Abraham and Giroud for goals is very concerning.

Should Ole be put in the same category ? I have been thinking about this lately, as I see this comparison a lot, but logically wise when we think about it, both Lampard and Arteta are novice managers. This is Lampard's 3rd year and Arteta's 2nd as a football managers. Ole has been a manager since 2011, about 9-10 years. He's not a novice and has a good amount of experience neither of them has. These comparisons seem to all originate because they're all ex players/legends but I don't think Ole is comparable to them.

 

[Oranges038]

They're in a false posistion because other teams have a game or two in hand over Chelsea.
You can forget about them getting anywhere near Liverpool, who have a game in hand and 6 points ahead. Same with Utd who'll finish 10+ points ahead of Chelsea.
So, take these games in hand into account and it leaves Chelsea down there in midtable with Southampton around 9th place.

Then you look at the stats and see they haven't beaten a single team in the top ten, and even struggle to score a goal against half decent teams.
They've got the look of a 6th-10th place team written all over them, with the probability of Lampard ending up with the lowest points total of any manager under RA who's lasted a full season.

Games in hand mean absolutely nothing until the points are on the board. They are currently 6th not 9th. I don't expect them to get near Liverpool, never said they would.

But like I said, they've got a lot of new players bedding in, I expect them to be better in the second half. If they maintain their points per game average, they'll end up on around 60 points, enough to finish around sixth based on previous seasons.

 

[arnie_ni]

I picked a game in which he scored, totally at random, to check...

Did wise nip butt's dick there?

 

[RedSky]

Should Ole be put in the same category ? I have been thinking about this lately, as I see this comparison a lot, but logically wise when we think about it, both Lampard and Arteta are novice managers. This is Lampard's 3rd year and Arteta's 2nd as a football managers. Ole has been a manager since 2011, about 9-10 years. He's not a novice and has a good amount of experience neither of them has. These comparisons seem to all originate because they're all ex players/legends but I don't think Ole is comparable to them.

They'll all be compared to one another because they're all managing top clubs in the league. It's not overly fair granted, but tough shit ultimately, part of the deal of being a Manager. League stats below:

Manager	Games	Win %	Loss %	Points Per Game
Ole	74	52.70%	21.62%	1.84
Jose	41	48.78%	24.39%	1.73
Frank	54	50.00%	29.63%	1.70
Arteta	37	40.54%	35.14%	1.46

 

[Tapori]

Should Ole be put in the same category ? I have been thinking about this lately, as I see this comparison a lot, but logically wise when we think about it, both Lampard and Arteta are novice managers. This is Lampard's 3rd year and Arteta's 2nd as a football managers. Ole has been a manager since 2011, about 9-10 years. He's not a novice and has a good amount of experience neither of them has. These comparisons seem to all originate because they're all ex players/legends but I don't think Ole is comparable to them.

You can't have it all ways
Any criticism of Ole always uses his own record as a manager against him (Cardiff) but ignores Molde.
Lampard did manage Derby so he is not a complete novice
Arteta is fresh and new but the criticism of him as being a novice for such a large club is valid.

Lampard, Ole and Arteta are managing high status clubs and as much as you want a bespoke assessment and can do this, ultimately the status of all 3 clubs weighs heavily.

F-w-i-w, Lampard has done ok but should be slightly better in play consistency and league performance. If current performance dips could be shown the door. His current team selection and tactics are worrying. His midfield is weak.
Ole has done well but still lacks consistency in defence, certain attacking phases, squad rotation and crunch cup/league games
Arteta started incredibly but this season, even with injuries, is performing very poorly.

Let's see where they end up this season.

 

[el3mel]

You can't have it all ways
Any criticism of Ole always uses his own record as a manager against him (Cardiff) but ignores Molde.
Lampard did manage Derby so he is not a complete novice
Arteta is fresh and new but the criticism of him as being a novice for such a large club is valid.

Lampard, Ole and Arteta are managing high status clubs and as much as you want a bespoke assessment and can do this, ultimately the status of all 3 clubs weighs heavily.

F-w-i-w, Lampard has done ok but should be slightly better in play consistency and league performance. If current performance dips could be shown the door. His current team selection and tactics are worrying. His midfield is weak.
Ole has done well but still lacks consistency in defence, certain attacking phases, squad rotation and crunch cup/league games
Arteta started incredibly but this season, even with injuries, is performing very poorly.

Let's see where they end up this season.

Maybe you're right. I was just thinking that Ole has at least 6-7 years more of management than Lampard or Arteta, even if it's in a low league level team and not at top level, but I can of course see your point.

 

[Mb194dc]

They'll all be compared to one another because they're all managing top clubs in the league. It's not overly fair granted, but tough shit ultimately, part of the deal of being a Manager. League stats below:

​

Manager	Games	Win %	Loss %	Points Per Game
Ole	74	52.70%	21.62%	1.84
Jose	41	48.78%	24.39%	1.73
Frank	54	50.00%	29.63%	1.70
Arteta	37	40.54%	35.14%	1.46

What about penalties awarded per game.... . Pretty certain OGS is the league leader in that in the last couple of seasons?

Formula is simple for Lampard from clubs perspective IMO, get in the top 4 at minimum or clear his desk out at the end of the season. If we're cut adrift of top 4 (12 -15 point gap or so?) and looks like no chance of making top 4, very likely to also be curtains at that point in the season.

Chelsea always been run like that. Mr Abramovich likes sacking managers I guess.

 

[Sylar]

What about penalties awarded per game.... . Pretty certain OGS is the league leader in that in the last couple of seasons?

If Lampard wants more penalties he should get his team to attack more

 

[rotherham_red]

Yet all the stats point to Ole being better and Lampard struggling big time. Not as bad as Arteta mind, but still flopping hard.

Ole has the higher win percentage in the league, Ole's managed 20 more league games than Lampard and yet both clubs have lost 16 games.

Since lockdown for example, United had won 62.5% of our games, averaging 2.13 points per game, while Chelsea have got a 52.0% averaging 1.76 points per game. We've lost 3 games in 24, while Chelsea have lost 7 in 25.

And let's not forget Chelsea were 3rd and the EL champions the summer that Frank came in.

 

[united_99]

People can downplay Ole’s time at Molde all they want, but it seems it is helping him at United among others in terms of adapting to opposition especially if we play better teams and in terms of man management. But no amount of experience at smaller clubs is going to teach you completely what it’s like managing a big club. Either you grow into the job or you fail.
With Lampard it all depends on Roman‘s planning. I am getting the impression that since Chelsea have won a lot in the last two decades he isn’t as impatient anymore. Plus he has already hired almost every reputable manager. Now he may have decided that if he is going to give a manager time it is going to be Lampard providing that he keeps improving and doesn’t lose the dressing room.
In terms of player recruitment in the summer, a lot of United fans did what they always do: overrating almost every opposition player and signing. I feel Chelsea had a decent transfer window but nothing amazing. Especially Werner and Havertz don’t scare anyone. However as they are both young and German, if they don’t work out Chelsea can always sell them back to the Bundesliga.
All in all they have a good basis and should be making top 4, but it’s not a title winning squad yet. Like us they still lack a couple of top class players for that.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

What about penalties awarded per game.... . Pretty certain OGS is the league leader in that in the last couple of seasons?

This quote is so ridiculous not sure where to begin butchering it. This is almost suggesting we're getting more PKs because of Ole.

Fans can't have it all their way. They complained about PKs before VAR, they complain about PKs with VAR. To me, the PK issue is settled now. VAR is there, its same for everyone. Its made the decision making as objective as it possibly can be. So talking about awarded PKs while evaluating managers is stupid.

 

[RedDevilzFox]

I will happily concede Ole's in game management is still very sketchy. But overall, his man management, handling of the stress and pressure and shielding of the players has been excellent.

 

[WeePat]

And let's not forget Chelsea were 3rd and the EL champions the summer that Frank came in.

This argument always goes in circles, because the obvious response to that is that he lost Hazard, the man who scored or assisted almost 50% of all the goals the season before.

 

[rotherham_red]

This argument always goes in circles, because the obvious response to that is that he lost Hazard, the man who scored or assisted almost 50% of all the goals the season before.

You then replaced that man with Pulisic who outperformed him last season... And around and around we go

 

[Feed Me]

Liar liar pants on fire.

Palace and West Ham were both in the top 10 when we beat them.

This stat that’s been floating around gets on my tits irrespective of whether it’s true. Every game is worth the same – three points.

I think we need to quit with the hot takes at this stage. We are only 15 games into the season, and the table is too condensed to make knee jerk judgements.

You realistically can’t sign the volume of players you did and expect it to come together at once. I would say the underlying signs for Chelsea are decent – tightened up at the back and reasonably prolific, although I don’t always see an obvious pattern of play.

That said, I do think Lampard needs to arrest the current run soon, if only to dampen down all the negative talk, which – from experience – gets absolutely exhausting

 

[WeePat]

You then replaced that man with Pulisic who outperformed him last season... And around and around we go

Exactly - the injury prone Pulisic who has a quite a long way to go get close to Hazard's influence at his peak.

There is plenty to criticise Lampard for but pretending that a 3rd placed team with Hazard is still a 3rd placed team without him is .... well it's a bit weird

 

[Mb194dc]

This quote is so ridiculous not sure where to begin butchering it. This is almost suggesting we're getting more PKs because of Ole.

Fans can't have it all their way. They complained about PKs before VAR, they complain about PKs with VAR. To me, the PK issue is settled now. VAR is there, its same for everyone. Its made the decision making as objective as it possibly can be. So talking about awarded PKs while evaluating managers is stupid.

Not exactly the same, Maguire WWE tackle on Azpi in Utd Chelsea game for example.

I don't think Chelsea are being particularly hard done by in terms of refereeing in general. Lampard can't complain too much.

Utd have had a huge number of penalties though in last couple of seasons. Probably a record net amount (for - against) I would think. Don't think it's because of OGS. Lucky maybe....

 

[AshRK]

Not exactly the same, Maguire WWE tackle on Azpi in Utd Chelsea game for example.

I don't think Chelsea are being particularly hard done by in terms of refereeing in general. Lampard can't complain too much.

Utd have had a huge number of penalties though in last couple of seasons. Probably a record net amount (for - against) I would think. Don't think it's because of OGS. Lucky maybe....

Both United and Chelsea have got 5 penalties in PL this season. It's not our fault if your players cannot take it properly. In the meantime We have conceded 4 penalties and you have had 2 penalties against you, so much for refs or VARS favouring us .

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Are you really basing you opinion of him as a coach from how he acts on the touchline?

You cannot tell me Lampard wouldnt be better off with a more senior experienced asst.. Its quite a widely held opinion of Jody Morris tbh. Only have to visit social media or various forums of ours. He is not an assistant manager IMO. He is never vocal on the touchline either. Compare that to most other assistants in the league.