Both Leeds and Everton are shocking. But luckily for them, there are 3 teams way worse. And that should be enough to keep both Leeds and Everton up.
Frank Lampard
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Both Leeds and Everton are shocking. But luckily for them, there are 3 teams way worse. And that should be enough to keep both Leeds and Everton up.
Momentum is everything in football. Everton are currently the worst performing club out of the bottom group of clubs (i'm discounting Norwich as I think they're clearly doomed). Looking at that table I would also say Watford are in big trouble as they struggle to score, Newcastle look well clear as of now. I think the 3rd relegated club will be between Brentford, Leeds and Everton. Burnley will pull themselves out of it.
Special shoutout to Leeds who almost averaged conceding 3 goals a game.
Last 10 Game Form:
Club | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Newcastle | 5 | 3 | 2 | 13 | 12 | +1 | 18 |
Burnley | 2 | 4 | 4 | 7 | 12 | -5 | 10 |
Brentford | 2 | 1 | 7 | 9 | 20 | -11 | 7 |
Leeds | 2 | 1 | 7 | 12 | 29 | -17 | 7 |
Watford | 1 | 3 | 6 | 4 | 15 | -11 | 6 |
Everton | 1 | 1 | 8 | 9 | 21 | -12 | 4 |
Lampard totally overhauled the style of play from the Rowett era (which was basically Pulisball on steriods), he was trying to implement more progressive style of play with Carson/Keogh/Huddlestone/Nugent in the set up.
I'd say with that in mind he did well to maintain their position then go one better in the play off, we've seen especially in that division managers trying to overhaul a style of play go absolutely disastrously, for example Birmingham tried to move on from Rowett's style in a similar way and they dived down the league from 7th and only just stayed up.
Providing extra context isn't a strawman, come on. I didn't dispute your claim that he underachieved in the second season. I gave extra context to his Chelsea period overall and then focused my disagreement on the Derby claim.
Yes a rough run of form is very generic but it speaks to the fact that he only struggled badly in that poor run of form, hence why there was a lot of 'ruthless Chelsea' talk around that time. He fluctuated between decent to pretty damn impressive in 15 of the 18 months he was at Chelsea.
In a battle of the Chumps between Lampard, OGS and Arteta, it's most surprising to see Arteta actually proving people wrong.
I'm not. I'm saying they showed immediate improvement under a new manager and if it continues they will have a better chance to stay up whilst Everton have shown nothing.
Think we need some more sample size before this type of declaration. Ole and Lampard also had these type of runs aswell.
We hear this every time Arsenal win a few games. Just one month ago they were coming off a month scoring once with all their chances of a trophy gone down the shitter in the process.
I think Everton’s biggest problem was that they assumed they wouldn’t be in a relegation battle, and then assumed that they had too much quality to stay in one.
The reality of their situation is only sinking in now. Other teams have picked up and they haven’t. It’s panic stations now and all of a sudden that quality, which they assumed would keep them away from any relegation battles, isn’t available.
They have the worst manager among the relegation teams, and now, they also have the worst form and the worst run-in (by a long shot). They are in massive trouble, and not, “oh we better buck up our ideas quickly” trouble. It’s now “we are one of the favorites to go down” trouble.
They assumed they wouldn’t be here in March. They should have gone for someone like Hodge and reviewed in the summer. They are totally unprepared for the fight they are in.
The reality of their situation is only sinking in now. Other teams have picked up and they haven’t. It’s panic stations now and all of a sudden that quality, which they assumed would keep them away from any relegation battles, isn’t available.
They have the worst manager among the relegation teams, and now, they also have the worst form and the worst run-in (by a long shot). They are in massive trouble, and not, “oh we better buck up our ideas quickly” trouble. It’s now “we are one of the favorites to go down” trouble.
They assumed they wouldn’t be here in March. They should have gone for someone like Hodge and reviewed in the summer. They are totally unprepared for the fight they are in.
I think it's safe to rename the thread to 'Sack watch'
One look at the Grand Old Team forum will make you feel better as a United fan.
They have turned on every player it seems.
Even DCL is being called a fraud that wears skirts and handbags.
Grim stuff over there.
They have turned on every player it seems.
Even DCL is being called a fraud that wears skirts and handbags.
Grim stuff over there.
The lowest Ole finished as a full time manager during a full season was 3rd. Arteta has finished 8th. Even this season, it looks like 4th is the limit.
This appointment was a terrible one for both Everton and Lampard. The former are in real danger of being relegated, and the latter will probably never get another job in the top flight.
Pretty much. They are finding form at the right time, and are on a relatively easy run so far, at least in the league. Their last real test was a loss to City on New Years Day. Since then they've played Burnley, Wolves, Brentford, Wolves again, and Watford. All of these were close games as well.
“They are average players, average characters…”
Harry Redknapp has jumped to the defence of his nephew Frank Lampard following Everton’s 5-0 defeat to Spurs last night.
How are those comments anyway helpful to Frank or Everton?
Harry Redknapp has jumped to the defence of his nephew Frank Lampard following Everton’s 5-0 defeat to Spurs last night.
How are those comments anyway helpful to Frank or Everton?
I know Frank should improve Everton. But he just came in. He did play two of last five against pep and Conte. He need to out point Burnley,Leeds,Norwich and Watford. He can do that with two games in hand.
His first game against New castle and lost their way in that game. Second game against Leeds which his team fairly won. Next Southampton he lost to one of the managers man utd short listed for their team. Then pep and Conte. What do you expect against those managerial greats. Even against city they should have drawn if they got their fair penalty claim pgmol apologised for it.
Ok Everton will still get relegated but not because first five games of Lampard but next 13 games. I am sure he will win least 5 of their remaining games.
You are either very drunk or you have not seen their remaining fixtures, their run in is frankly brutal and it is fair to say the next 2 home games against Wolves and Newcastle are vital because anything less than 6 points there and they are doomed.
So someone else doing a worse job after Rowett can be used to praise Frank too? Rowetts team outscored Lampards while conceding less, that doesn't say much for Lampard when he's being outscored by Pulisball on steroids.
I think it's a straw man argument because of the fact nobody really disputed or criticised his first season at Chelsea and if we are being fair he benefited from his reputation as a footballer and his history with Chelsea to even get that job in the first place (If we are concerned about providing context) because he certainly hadn't earned it from his work at Derby.
I'd say he fluctuated from absolutely diabolical to pretty damn impressive overall at Chelsea.
To be fair Ole also got relegated.
He always has plenty of defenders no matter what happens on the pitch.
I can sympathise, they are in danger of relegation.
If it were United, people on here would literally be calling for blood. I have no doubt about that.
With Cardiff over 10 years ago. How would Arteta fare with a similar team? It’s not really relevant is it.
You also said a full season, with Cardiff he never got that.
Wasn't Ole the manager biggest fan but in hindsight leading that group of United flaky players to back to back top 3 finishes and produce unbeaten away record was more impressive than many thought it was at the time.
A strawman is intentionally misrepresenting your argument and then providing counterpoints to the invented version rather than what you actually said. That's not the same thing as providing extra context without disputing your claim.
He absolutely got the Chelsea job on the strength of his reputation as a player and his connection and status with the club, but I don't recall any period where Chelsea were absolutely diabolical apart from his final 3 months.
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Pulis' best PL season tally for Stoke eclipses Potter's best for Brighton, does that make the former a more attack minded manager or means their styles are similar?
This, their run in is awful. I think people are glossing over this as they just think all the games are the same with the number to be played. However, of their last 11 games six are against teams in the top 8. Of the other five, they've got Newcastle who are the 2nd most in form team in the league, unpredictable Palace who can beat City away and Leicester who can be tricky. Only two games where you can say they're favourites are Watford and Brentford, but even then Watford are now managed by Hodgson who knows how to get out of a relegation fight and just got a point against Utd and should've got one against Arsenal.
I don't favour their chances, unless Lampard can get 4+ of his players to seriously up their game.
Arteta was supposed to be the worst of the three and was way ahead in the predicted sack race. But look where we are now. And poor Frank's gonna be sacked twice before Arteta gets even one.
Surely the fact all three keep swapping positions in the eyes of football fans says everything that needs to be said?
Even if Arsenal finish 4th, he’ll have at best matched Lampard at Chelsea. And still be off Ole.
Maybe expectations are higher at United and Chelsea.
Maybe?
The maybe was ironic.Maybe?
Can see Everton going down, what a shock that would be. There remaining games are quite tough, the question is who avoids the drop, Burnley or Watford? I think Norwich will go down. I really want Burnley to go down though, sick of playing them every year.
It's actually less than 8 years ago.
I'd say its going to be something that he is judged by so it has some relevance.
Its more relevant than his League wins with Molde ( he also finished 6th there) realistically so because I like to give Ole the credit for those wins ( More impressive than Lampards derby tenure) I also have to call a spade a spade with the relegation.
If and when it happens to Lampard with Everton I'd also say it's relevant so it's only fair I mention it but I understand now that you meant a whole season of English football.
As far as how would Arteta do with a squad as bad as Cardiff? I don't know but how would he have done with a squad as good as Oles United or Chelsea in Lampards final season there? Maybe better? Who knows?
We can only judge on the evidence we have.
No but had Potter been brought in to Stoke to replace Pulis ( a far more accurate example than your comparison) because the team was underachieving and promptly scored less goals on the way to getting less points I think his reputation would have taken a hit.
I don't think that would have happened by the way because I think Potter is a far superior manager to Lampard, he just won't be handed an opportunity on a silver platter like Lamps was. Potter will have to earn it.
Well those final 3/4 months are where his reputation falls apart for me.
I feel that he did a below average Job at Derby , An above Average Job in his first season at Chelsea and an Abysmal job in his second season.
He's currently not covering himself in glory at Everton either but if he pulls them together I will give him the credit he deserves, but if he doesn't it's another nail in his managerial coffin.
Lampard is a bit shit innit?
You are comparing Cardiff with Everton? They were always relegation candidates; Everton is a top 6/8 club.
They’ll surely stay up unless they get this points decision. If they go down I reckon they’ll keep Lampard and throw loads of money at it and they’ll be back within 2 seasons, if not one. They will lose Pickford DCL and Richarlison though
I'm comparing relegation with relegation.
The poster said Oles relegation is not relevant, I stated that it's relevant because when and if Lampard gets relegated I'll use it as a stick to beat him with so what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Once it's said and done we can compare who had the worse relegation but until it happens we can't.
If you scroll up a little you would see that I've actually put Ole over Lampard over their career so it's not like I'm shitting on Ole for the sake of it.
I know, I only responded when you mentioned squad strength. The only thing in common is that they both stepped into a mess, but that Everton squadv should be good enough for Europe.
I only mentioned squad strength because the poster asked how would Arteta do with the Cardiff squad?
I just posed my question as a retort to that. Basically saying "Who knows?"
I 100% agree that if Lampard goes down with this Everton side it's more embarrassing than Ole going down with Cardiff, it will be the end of his managerial career realistically. I've been arguing with a bunch of Chelsea fans for the last 3 pages because I called him an underachiever.
Gotcha. Though I doubt it will be the end for Lamps though, he's a media darling and a national hero.
Yeah, that no one should pay football fans any mind when it comes to the evaluation of football managers?
As for Lampard, poisoned chalice this job. Torrid schedule ahead too. Relegation wouldn't be a fair reflection of his abilities the same way it wouldn't be for Dean Smith at Norwich. But fans will fan
Well that's where we differ then. It doesn't negate the work he did in the previous 15 months for me. There's a good coach in him and he showed it at both Chelsea and Derby, despite it falling apart for him in the final few months at Chelsea.
So far he's lost all away games and won every home, apart from City, where Dias got away with a blatant handball in the box. Not great showing, and some of the losses have been embarrassing but I'm on record saying before he took the job, probably in this very thread, that he should avoid Everton because he'd be walking into a very dysfunctional, toxic football club who are in a world of trouble.
Only 1 team in the whole of English football has gained fewer points away from home this season than Everton, so they're 91st out of 92 teams on that score.
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