Sure it was a great defensive performance but Zidane was the talisman. The game he was unavailable against Paraguay was so hard to win. He scored a brace against Brazil in final. Hard to have a better final.
FourFourTwo ranked their 100 best football players of all time( 2022 version)
- Thread starter General_Elegancia
- Start date
1. Diego Maradona
2. Diego Maradona
3. Diego Maradona
I obviously think Diego is the GOAT but 100% there's an argument to be made for Pele to be the goat too.
Also I'm not really a fan of ranking based on career longevity, I prefer to rate based on my subjective view of their peak ability
2. Diego Maradona
3. Diego Maradona
I obviously think Diego is the GOAT but 100% there's an argument to be made for Pele to be the goat too.
Also I'm not really a fan of ranking based on career longevity, I prefer to rate based on my subjective view of their peak ability
Interesting list. Obviously something like this is a mighty undertaking. I agree, with some, quibbles for others, and some glaring errors for a few more.
Agree
Top 4 I think is correct and I think most people do recognise that.
The top 10 and top 20 are broadly speaking OK with some minor quibbles.
It’ll be unpopular but Ronaldinho at 26 is about right. Top 10 talent but underachieved across span of time. I always thought of him as a top 20-25.
Minor quibbles
Best too high. Should be top 20.
Puskas too high and Di Stefano too low. If anything, you could swap these around.
Charlton maybe slightly too high. I think of him as a top 30 player.
Zidane too high and R9 too low. If anything, you could swap THESE around.
I personally think R.Baggio too low but 40 isn’t a disaster either
Ditto Laudrup at 39.
Moderic should be higher. Top 50.
Clangers
No Batistuta – after R9 the best striker of the 90s.
No Rivaldo – Barca’s best player in the late 90’s Figo era. World Player of Year. World Cip Winner. Great record.
As a personal note I’d have Hierro and Redondo in the list
No Zlatan – the best forward of c21 after Messi and Ronaldo. This is inexplicable and can only be a mistake.
Keegan above Henry – absolutely not. Way too high, probably shouldn’t be in top 100 at all.
Agree
Top 4 I think is correct and I think most people do recognise that.
The top 10 and top 20 are broadly speaking OK with some minor quibbles.
It’ll be unpopular but Ronaldinho at 26 is about right. Top 10 talent but underachieved across span of time. I always thought of him as a top 20-25.
Minor quibbles
Best too high. Should be top 20.
Puskas too high and Di Stefano too low. If anything, you could swap these around.
Charlton maybe slightly too high. I think of him as a top 30 player.
Zidane too high and R9 too low. If anything, you could swap THESE around.
I personally think R.Baggio too low but 40 isn’t a disaster either
Ditto Laudrup at 39.
Moderic should be higher. Top 50.
Clangers
No Batistuta – after R9 the best striker of the 90s.
No Rivaldo – Barca’s best player in the late 90’s Figo era. World Player of Year. World Cip Winner. Great record.
As a personal note I’d have Hierro and Redondo in the list
No Zlatan – the best forward of c21 after Messi and Ronaldo. This is inexplicable and can only be a mistake.
Keegan above Henry – absolutely not. Way too high, probably shouldn’t be in top 100 at all.
Agreed with most of above, but I’d think, Charlton deserve to be in top 20, as he won WC, CL, Ballon D’or, was top international goalscorer for England, and as attacking midfielder, he scored around 300 goals in his career.
Yeah I was probably a bit harsh. His top 15-20 is certainly not a ridiculous inclusion.
A few of my opinions
1) Top 4 is fine although it should be a top 5 for me with Franz. Pele should be 1 as well but it is subjective
2) Di Stefano and Platini below Zidane? Stefano should be top 10 (swap with best) and Platini should be higher than Zidane (who belongs to the 15-25 imo)
3) Why is Xavi below inesta and why is modric 50 places away. Xavi > Iniesta = Modric imo
4) Busquets does not belong to this list if Redondo isn’t in it. Keane and Vieria should both be in before Busquets as well
5) Cantona is in but Benz, Batigol and Lewa aren’t in is nonsense
6) Baresi should be above Maldini and Nesta should be in and around their level
7) Bergkamp shouldn’t be in if we just consider the players who are missing out. I mean Rikaard is placed below him which is criminal and we have players like Rivaldo and Totti not even in the list
8) Dani Alves above Cafu? Why?
1) Top 4 is fine although it should be a top 5 for me with Franz. Pele should be 1 as well but it is subjective
2) Di Stefano and Platini below Zidane? Stefano should be top 10 (swap with best) and Platini should be higher than Zidane (who belongs to the 15-25 imo)
3) Why is Xavi below inesta and why is modric 50 places away. Xavi > Iniesta = Modric imo
4) Busquets does not belong to this list if Redondo isn’t in it. Keane and Vieria should both be in before Busquets as well
5) Cantona is in but Benz, Batigol and Lewa aren’t in is nonsense
6) Baresi should be above Maldini and Nesta should be in and around their level
7) Bergkamp shouldn’t be in if we just consider the players who are missing out. I mean Rikaard is placed below him which is criminal and we have players like Rivaldo and Totti not even in the list
8) Dani Alves above Cafu? Why?
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How can you miss out the Pelé bit??? It’s even worse than the other extensive things wrong with the list! I think it’s a shambolic effort for what you’ve mentioned and far more.
neymar has seen this list and is now refusing to come out of his bedroom. not even a mug of hot chocolate and a bourbon cream will convince him to put his boots on and go to training.
Batistuta, Rivaldo and Zlatan being excluded from the top 100 is simply impossible. It's not even like they're merely top 100 players. They're all top 40 in my opinion.
Only mistakes/oversights can explain them as omissions.
My top 15:
1. Messi
2. Maradona
3. C. Ronaldo
4. Pele
5. R9
6/7/8. Beckenbauer/Cruyff/Di Stefano basically interchangeable
Difficult past this point. Gets very subjective. Depends on exactly how you would tier the next level of great playmakers - Zico, Zidane, Platini, (Laudrup would be here if he'd maxed out his ability), the next level of ATG forwards - Van Basten, Batistuta, Baggio, ... followed by the great defenders - Baresi, Maldini and a few choice others
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I've taken a second look and perhaps romario is ranked a bit high?
He was definitely great but his career leaves a lot to be desired.
Also the og Ronaldo may be getting a tad over rated the same way best has been, phenomenal talents without a shadow of doubt but again neither have the longevity or top peak performance to be in a top 20 in my opinion if anything it could be argued that Ronaldo for example wasn't even the best player in thei greatest triumph, rivaldo was.
(Also rivaldo should obviously be in but everyone's said that already)
Also potentially controversial opinion i take Figo out, he was good but I don't think he was top 100 good.
He was definitely great but his career leaves a lot to be desired.
Also the og Ronaldo may be getting a tad over rated the same way best has been, phenomenal talents without a shadow of doubt but again neither have the longevity or top peak performance to be in a top 20 in my opinion if anything it could be argued that Ronaldo for example wasn't even the best player in thei greatest triumph, rivaldo was.
(Also rivaldo should obviously be in but everyone's said that already)
Also potentially controversial opinion i take Figo out, he was good but I don't think he was top 100 good.
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Much prefer this Tier approach - feels much better.
I am in agreement with you, and I do rate Modric higher personally. I'm fine if people prefer Iniesta, but I take objection to putting a huge gap between them. Modric has achieved more than Iniesta has on a club level, and came very close to getting a WC trophy too. More than that though, he has been used more dynamically across the midfield and has excelled in all.
I wouldn't put Pele down at 4th either, but I'm not massively precious about how the top 3 (or is it a 4 now? I'm not convinced) are ordered to be honest and everybody has their own horses to back there. And also to avoid the thread turning into a debate about Messi/Cristiano v Pele/Maradona, when there is so much other stuff to talk about.
Yeah I clarified it a bit though. He was just spectacular, he was able to entertain the crowd while being effective at the same time. I haven’t seen anything like him before or after bis career. His ultimate peak was shorter than my other picks but it is not that he only had 1 or 2 good seasons. He was already a superstar at the world cup 2002 before he moved to barca where he had 4 world class seasons. So I couple that on his 2 PSG years and his brilliant years at Gremio and it is not really that short at all. It was definitely less at Milan but he still was able to turn on the style almost at will whenever I saw him play. All in all I think we got 6 great years out of him.
I partly agree but people often tend to forget that Brazil in the Pele years was stacked with super talent and they ALL played in Brazil. The great Santos side apprently was stacked with talent as they were the best side in the world back then and at first glance less than a handful of players were also in the national 11.
Pele scored a lot in easy games but his numbers in the copa libertadores and world cup are equally brilliant. He scored 17 goals in 15 games at the copa. His stats for the Rio/sao paolo tournament which was a big thing back then are 49 goals in 53 games. For me it is clear he performed in the big games.
You can then look at his 1970 world cup, apart from his goals and assist you can make incredible highlights with his near misses only. He was absolutely monstrous in that tournament. That dummy vs the goalkeeper where his effort just got wide, the try from the halfway line that almost went in, the supernatural save by Banks on his amazing header.
He was the total package from age 17 till he retired. free kicks, over head kicks, heading, power shots, strengt, dribbling ability ( watch any of his footage he played the ball through anyone’s legs even Beckenbauer). He looked and played like a modern day football athlete.
I am awestruck by all the footage on youtube. With Pele people only talk about his goals but he was also able to entertain the crowd and he had great playmaking abilities as well
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Excellent post, mate. He's arguably the most complete attacker of all time.
Don’t know which is worse, Ronaldo over Pele or Zidane 5th. Yeah Zidane. Zidane over Cruyff and Di Stefano is shocking.
Yeah and that's why I don't pay attention that much about ranking the top 4 goats ( Messi, Pele, Diego, and Ronaldo), and everyone seems to have their own opinion( including you and me too). Although, I would put Pele as number 1 or 2 in my ranking(above Cristiano for sure). As you said, it could turn into a lot of debates like
1. Messi vs Ronaldo
2.Pele vs Maradona
3. Maldini vs Baresi
4.Hidegkuti vs Schiaffino
5.Zidane vs Platini
6.Xavi/Iniesta vs Zidane( or Modric)
6. or even Sir Bobby vs George Best
(Tbh, I really like discussions)
etc.
1. Messi
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Cruyff
6. Di Stefano
7. Beckenbauer
Should be the top 7 in my opinion - after that you can look at Puskas, Garrincha, Platini, Eusebio, Muller, Maldini, Baresi, Yashin, Ronaldo, Zidane, Best, Xavi, Matthaus and others.
Best being considered better than Di Stefano, they didn’t play that far apart. Did any contemporaries of that time consider Best to have been better? I doubt it. And Zidane is very overrated.
2. Pele
3. Maradona
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Cruyff
6. Di Stefano
7. Beckenbauer
Should be the top 7 in my opinion - after that you can look at Puskas, Garrincha, Platini, Eusebio, Muller, Maldini, Baresi, Yashin, Ronaldo, Zidane, Best, Xavi, Matthaus and others.
Best being considered better than Di Stefano, they didn’t play that far apart. Did any contemporaries of that time consider Best to have been better? I doubt it. And Zidane is very overrated.
Lothar Matthaus at position 32...He was probably the best all-round midfielder in the history of this sport.
Agreed. He's very hard to overlook, though, due to his two Ballons (he nearly won three of 'em, actually).
But he wasn't that good, Ballons or no Ballons.
Zidane was suspended against Paraguay - he had been sent off in the second group match for a petulant stomp on an opposing player and missed the last group match against Denmark, which was the penultimate match to determine top spot, and the first knockout round match. Henry and Djorkaeff were the dominant attacking forces in group play and the back line stood firm.
Blanc won the knockout match vs Paraguay in extra-time. The QF vs Italy was a scoreless defensive stalemate won on penalties. Thuram put in an epic display in the SF to propel them to the Final. Zidane pops up with two goals in the Final and changes the narrative of his World Cup performance. Petit also had a magnificent Final with a goal and an assist while helping to stymie the Brazilian attack, never hear a peep about his fantastic performances.
The top three in Golden Ball voting - Ronaldo, Suker, Thuram.
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I know that. So he was unavailable because he was suspended… what are you trying to tell me ?
All right Mr Marcello. Zidane was the talisman of this team. And ask most of French people who is the best French player ever, most of them will tell you Zidane, end of story.
Oh, and even before his two goals against Brazil, it was all about Zidane for french people and medias. So it’s not rewriting history to say he was the best player in that team.
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Mbappe upset at not seeing his name in the top ten, let alone the entire list, has requested PSG purchase FourFourTwo or he'll hand in a transfer request.
I misread unavailable as unbelievable, my bad there. I seem to recall a few French in this thread having stated he was not better than Platini. It's probably a generational thing or perhaps a recency bias. Putting him anywhere in the top ten of an all-time world list is nonsense.
Rooney was obviously a better "all around player" in the fact that he never had a real set position (which famously also hurt him at times in certain teams), and I'm never saying he wasn't spectacular and an all time United great (every player on this list was unreal). But I think you're severely underrating Lewandowski, who's an all time striker that deserves to be rated with the very best and who's pure production and club success both are on another level to Rooney. I think people are just hesitant to rate modern players outside of Messi/Ronaldo as "all time greats" because of a mixture of nostalgia and the fact that it just sounds wrong, but even Modric on this list is criminally low compared to some ahead of him.
I was too young for Platini, I was 12 in 98.
He was one of the best player of his generation and won it all while playing in the best clubs in the world.
Anyway, this kind of list is subjective, as football is. And that great as it is. Modern football, with all the cash, the stats and the playing systems has lost his soul.
Football is or probably was all about the emotions it brings.
So Zidane is probably not in top 10 but I don’t give a fuss about all the players I have never seen play and I said I think when I spoke that my opinion is about French people. What I find laughable is people speaking about football players they have never seen play but put them on top while they have no affiliation to them.
If we are honest, Pelé is the best because he won 3World cup and was the first football superstar. Most of us never seen him play appart from the odd black and white video.
There is no world in which Zidane is better than Johan Cruijff. Zidane was not even better than Platini. I would question the eyesight of anyone that watched both Zidane and Platini and came to the conclusion that Zidane was better. In almost every offensive category, Platini was superior. The only area Zidane has an advantage is that he was more aesthetically pleasing to watch.
I'm also not a huge fans of lists in general, but if I were to ever pick a number 1, it would be Pele.
I'm also not a huge fans of lists in general, but if I were to ever pick a number 1, it would be Pele.
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Dunno why but I just think Pele is a tad overrated, especially now after Messi and Ronaldo. Feel he shouldn't make top five.
Best dmc on last 30-40 years 77th. Best central midfielder 79th.
Stupid
Stupid
Had this discussion yesterday. On one hand 3 world cups is something else. On the other look at who most of his goals were scored against. Its tricky.
Laudrup way too low.
Not sure I’d put Maradona over Ronaldo neither - longevity and doping the main reasons
Not sure I’d put Maradona over Ronaldo neither - longevity and doping the main reasons
Oh, i agree with you about Lewa, he absolutely deserves to be on the list. Modric deserves to be higher too, and I am sure when their careers close out, that will be reflected.
I just disagreed with him being ahead of Rooney. Rooney was rarely given the chance to be the productive part of the team. He was moved around and used to accommodate others, and he still became the top scorer for one of the biggest clubs in the world.
Lewa is phenomenal but the Bayern team was built around him, to get him chances and get him goals. Rooney seldom had that luxury in his career.
A fantastic player with absolutely phenomenal output, but in the same way that many would put Maradona ahead of C.Ronaldo, I would put Rooney ahead of Lewa. I just think, at his peak, he was a better, and much more exciting, footballer.
Nah Pelé is underrated if anything, he should be a non-negotiable top 3. One of the biggest sporting figures of the 20th century for a reason.
In 1961 for example Santos went to Europe and beat European champions Benfica, then went to Italy and they beat Juventus, Inter and Roma in a row. He had nearly a goal a game against top teams of the time. There were some great players in the 1960s but nobody credible at the time debates that Pele was not the best. Adding modern narratives and applying them to old games and systems doesn’t work.
For example, what if in 20 years there’s a super league and people point out all the goals that Ronaldo and Messi scored against Getafe, Elche etc where their team salaries might be 20 times the opposition? La Liga in the early 2010s was one of the most uneven top leagues of the past 30-40 years.
I know I said I don't care who is where, but Paolo Rossi has no business being in that list, one tournament is being hideously overrated.
Also, it may not be popular on here but no way is Cantona a top 100 player of all time, not even certain he is in the top 10 at Utd.
Also, it may not be popular on here but no way is Cantona a top 100 player of all time, not even certain he is in the top 10 at Utd.
Is Fontaine also being overrated by this pub for one tournament performance?
Underrated really, compared to Rossi. Would Toto Schillachi have been in this list if Italy had a little more fortune in Italia 90, or Forlan in 2010?
Ok, maybe the Toto thing is unfairly underrating Rossi, clearly better than him, but if you break that list down into pure, out and strikers excluding 10's and the Messi and Ronaldo types, it would have Rossi as close to a top 10 striker ever and that is not him.
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I'm having a very hard time understanding why Neymar isn't on that list but so many others are? He played a critical role in Barcalona titles and UCL glory along with being one of the greatest Brazilian footballers of all times. Might very well lead them to the WORLD CUP victory. He's also more skilled than most of the players in the bottom half of that list. Not saying Neymar should be top 10 (although he might get there soon) but top 50 is realistic.
I actually agree with that one. I love the man but 70ish of all time I'm not at all sure.
I'd have him in top 10 of Premier League players easily but outside that it doesn't work.
Missing Zlatan in that list.